< < < DEAR DEVs: A letter from the Base Builders > > >
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-05-01 08:49 in Base Construction
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You admittedly do not fall under the category of Base Builder, but I will admit, you make a valid point:|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I'm not sure that developer attention is what you want.
Consider that relatively few players are active base editors. For me at least, part of the reason why I don't play with bases is that there are too many choices. The editor is more fine-grained than I really want; I'd like to be able to slap down rooms wholesale pre-decorated and pre-functionalized. If the developers decide to pay attention to bases, they'll be paying attention to the needs of people who aren't using bases now, and that will probably mean simplifying base editing to the point where a significant chunk of the customization available now is simply going to be gone. I am not saying this is the right thing to do, nor that it is inevitable, but it's pretty clear from prior decisions that the developers are willing to completely ignore the requests of the community currently using a feature, and instead try to cater to the perceived needs of those not currently using the feature. So you may want to think about what dev attention to bases will really mean, and start thinking of suggestions as to how the existing functionality you love can be retained while also making base editing accessible to the very lazy general player population. My personal suggestion would be to offer examples of well-decorated rooms that could be added to the editor as slap-down prebuilt templates, and to advocate for room files that can be saved, shared, and loaded so that when people see an excellent room in someone else's base, they can quickly duplicate it in their own. But these are just the uninformed opinions of someone outside the base-building community. |
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| So you may want to think about what dev attention to bases will really mean, and start thinking of suggestions as to how the existing functionality you love can be retained while also making base editing accessible to the very lazy general player population. |
So I am thinking on doing such a thing. But let's be clear here...even that, however more graphic, would still be just another list that would likely yield no results.
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And what were the results, financially, of the Devs nerfing Base Raids and such? They lost thousands of subscribers.|
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the attention they got was not the kind they wanted??? Be careful what you wish for.....Even after continous well thought out and represented input from the pvp community they still got an implementation of pvp with issue13 that NOONE asked for or imagined. Please note the dates in the links below.See that? They are still trying to no avail.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=122744 http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130423 Furthermore, posts like the Ops get nothing accomplished unless its already on the dev's agenda. The assumption that base builders are any more important than any other subfaction of the player base is ludicrous at best... assinine at worst. However, I would agree that there does seem to be a pattern of neglecting various subfactions by the development team. |
I would like to think they've learned from that mistake.
The life of an MMO is finite. When people lose interest, they move on. There is simply too much competition out there to risk alienating your long time subscribers.
And what you speak of is that element of fear I mentioned above. People afraid to speak out because they are afraid of the consequences. What you fail to realize is that the power doesn't lie with the developers, it lies within our bank accounts.
I believe the developers want their subscribers to remain happy. I really do. But sometimes you have to raise enough of a stink to get noticed before things get done.
Edit:
I would also add that CoH is about to get an influx of income because the schools will be released for summer break. Now is the perfect time to draw attention to the issue...and the release of GR (the timing is on purpose).
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
...I'd like to be able to slap down rooms wholesale pre-decorated and pre-functionalized. ... start thinking of suggestions as to how the existing functionality you love can be retained while also making base editing accessible to the very lazy general player population. My personal suggestion would be to offer examples of well-decorated rooms that could be added to the editor as slap-down prebuilt templates,
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
.and to advocate for room files that can be saved, shared, and loaded so that when people see an excellent room in someone else's base, they can quickly duplicate it in their own.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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This is true, but it doesn't have to be. If they do add player apartments, I think that would justify an entire issue being devoted to bases because then, EVERYONE could be a base builder.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Consider that relatively few players are active base editors.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
This is true, but it doesn't have to be. If they do add player apartments, I think that would justify an entire issue being devoted to bases because then, EVERYONE could be a base builder.
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Players already have this ability. It's called a "mini base". Albeit they are more condo's than apartments. The reduction of base costs a few issues back pretty much assured any player who wanted a secret lair could afford to construct one.
How to get more people involved in base design/editing has been a question for a long time...
From the Big Consolidated List:
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Some of those issues could be resolved.... also on the Big Consolidated List:
Base Building FLAWS
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
I would love to be able to:
- Set seperate permissions per room as we do storage containers
- Save entire bases to my hard drive for fast restoration if something gets messed up. But I think only the Superleader should have this ability...otherwise base layouts coupld be swiped
- Save individual room contact layouts to hard drive would also be a great feature.
The truth is, there are a LOT of awesome ideas out here...the problem is there isn't any chance of them coming into being if the developers ignore us...and that's what this whole thread is about.
Good luck Base Builders, I hope it turns out better for you guys than it did for the PvPers 
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
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I'll buy that for a buck.|
Originally Posted by American_Angel
I would love to be able to:
- Set seperate permissions per room as we do storage containers - Save entire bases to my hard drive for fast restoration if something gets messed up. But I think only the Superleader should have this ability...otherwise base layouts coupld be swiped - Save individual room contact layouts to hard drive would also be a great feature. The truth is, there are a LOT of awesome ideas out here...the problem is there isn't any chance of them coming into being if the developers ignore us...and that's what this whole thread is about. |
And to echo Ironblade, if a base update included personal apartments, I too could easily see a whole issue geared around them. IoP raids would be icing (especially since PvP was overhauled in part due to base raids. Time to come full circle devs
).
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This is why I refurbished the Big Consolidated List... to make exactly this point.|
Originally Posted by American_Angel
The truth is, there are a LOT of awesome ideas out here...the problem is there isn't any chance of them coming into being if the developers ignore us...and that's what this whole thread is about.
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The fact that I could take a 2 year old list, make minimal changes (adding as well as removing things), and it still expresses so many concerns that haven't been addressed... does indeed highlight the fact that we need to beat the drums.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Yeah, I was looking at that earlier today before I ran some errands. Wanted to let you know you did a great job there.
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
This is why I refurbished the Big Consolidated List... to make exactly this point.
The fact that I could take a 2 year old list, make minimal changes (adding as well as removing things), and it still expresses so many concerns that haven't been addressed... does indeed highlight the fact that we need to beat the drums. |
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Originally Posted by stacker
Ok my 2 cents...
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Stacker! His 2 cents = a million's worth of better listen uphalf of our bases wouldn't be possible without his help.
Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
basically, if you see a miki on Triumph, it's probably cute and it's probably me.
Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.
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NOT if they also want to be in an SG with their friends.|
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
Players already have this ability. It's called a "mini base". Albeit they are more condo's than apartments. The reduction of base costs a few issues back pretty much assured any player who wanted a secret lair could afford to construct one.
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We need to have personal apartments INDEPENDENT of SG membership.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
NOT if they also want to be in an SG with their friends.
We need to have personal apartments INDEPENDENT of SG membership. |
No offense,Ironblade.
You are a flippin idiot if you can't figure out how this ability already exists ingame .If you'de like to see some personal apartments within a vg base please do pm me. I will be more than happy to give you a tour of private accomadations set for individual vg members.
In addition I am more than happy to accomodate a tour of completely non sg/vg affiliated apartments(condo's, lairs,wthe) as well.
P.S. Your quoted post is contradictory, Please state what you meant.
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I'm pretty sure that Ironblade meant that he wants to stay in his SG because he likes teaming and hanging out with those folks - and there are some advantages to having a large steady group to call on (that is less than an entire global channel). A really tricked-out base with all the amenities is handy to have access to as well.|
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
No offense,Ironblade.
You are a flippin idiot if you can't figure out how this ability already exists ingame .If you'de like to see some personal apartments within a vg base please do pm me. I will be more than happy to give you a tour of private accomadations set for individual vg members. In addition I am more than happy to accomodate a tour of completely non sg/vg affiliated apartments(condo's, lairs,wthe) as well. P.S. Your quoted post is contradictory, Please state what you meant. |
But - he also would like to have some place he could edit all on his own - to put his personal stamp on and keep his stuff safe.
In large SGs, you give up the storage security and base editing privileges in return for the amenities and comraderie.
In small (1-3 person SGs), you are really, really safe in putting your stuff in the base. You can go nuts decorating. But getting enough Prestige to do what you want might take a long, long time.
If I'm putting words in your mouth, Ironblade, I apologize.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
I think the idea of Personal Apartments deserves it's own thread.
The question on the table in this thread is how to get the Dev's attention and how to get them to communicate with us proactively and productively.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
How about ask the pvp community how that worked out for them?? Get some tips and pointers and whatnot.
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Originally Posted by Ad Astra
I'm pretty sure that Ironblade meant that he wants to stay in his SG because he likes teaming and hanging out with those folks - and there are some advantages to having a large steady group to call on (that is less than an entire global channel). A really tricked-out base with all the amenities is handy to have access to as well.
But - he also would like to have some place he could edit all on his own - to put his personal stamp on and keep his stuff safe. In large SGs, you give up the storage security and base editing privileges in return for the amenities and comraderie. In small (1-3 person SGs), you are really, really safe in putting your stuff in the base. You can go nuts decorating. But getting enough Prestige to do what you want might take a long, long time. If I'm putting words in your mouth, Ironblade, I apologize. |
I understand he wants a personal apartment within a sg//vg. Thats is easily achievable with the current state of bases. Bear with me a minute........ all it requires is a base leader with editing priveleges to design his room per his specifications. Voila!****.. my vg base on Guardian has 22 personal apartments designed specifically for each player that wanted one. Hours in vent. Still easily doable.
The thing that really GETS me is that prior to issue13 good ******* luck funding absolutely any prestige unless you were really hardcore with your group and grinding prestige daily.The devs cut all costs and you people still *****. The devs opened editing possibilities... and you people still *****.What in this game deserves to be worked for anymore? Seriously.....the majority QQ's and gets it almost free and still complains!! My large complaint about bases would be the removal of raids, iop's and the Cathedral. This thread is a ***** session about cosmetic irritations. Big ******* Woooo!!How about you all ask the devs to fix pvp so bases can once again be used as intended?Thats a little too far right field,huh?
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Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
snark
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Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
rant
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
personally, I'd say pick a dev and harrass the hell out of him/her. send PMs daily over the forums until his/her inbox crashes. make it so he/she cant do anything, say anything, go anywhere, or see anybody without another dev giving him/her a hardtime about the inbox crashing under the weight of our voices.
and once that has been achieved, i say we get a direct phone number and extension, then crash the voicemail. once phase 2 is complete, we prepare for what I'd like to call the Billion Base Builder March where we camp out on that particular dev's front lawn with /em protest, disrupting the spouse's ability to get to work and the kids' ability to get to school!
upon completion of phase 3, said Dev now can't get to work because of all of us on the front lawn, so he/she is fired for missing work. That would be the time each of us submits an application to be a dev and maybe, just MAYBE, one of us would get hired so now we have a mole on the inside who we could get to start the ball rolling on Issue 21: Seriously Overdue Base Luvin'
With all of that said, I may or may not have some friends in NY in the "waste management" industry who may or may not know some connected people and who may or may not owe me a favor... i'm just saying.
So if the devs are in fact watching this thread... you may or may not have been warned.
Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
I think so Brain, but where are we going to get rubber pants full of jello at this time of night? *NARF*
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Well...that was totally out of line. (and people in this thread said I was aggressive)|
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
No offense,Ironblade.
You are a flippin idiot if you can't figure out how this ability already exists ingame .If you'de like to see some personal apartments within a vg base please do pm me. I will be more than happy to give you a tour of private accomadations set for individual vg members. In addition I am more than happy to accomodate a tour of completely non sg/vg affiliated apartments(condo's, lairs,wthe) as well. P.S. Your quoted post is contradictory, Please state what you meant. |
You forget that MOST SGs do not give rights to all SGers to work on the bases. They would be fools to do this.
You really had no right to attack like that. I think you should appologize if you have not already (I havn't read the last few posts yet).
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the attention they got was not the kind they wanted??? Be careful what you wish for.....Even after continous well thought out and represented input from the pvp community they still got an implementation of pvp with issue13 that NOONE asked for or imagined. Please note the dates in the links below.See that? They are still trying to no avail.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=122744
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130423
Furthermore, posts like the Ops get nothing accomplished unless its already on the dev's agenda. The assumption that base builders are any more important than any other subfaction of the player base is ludicrous at best... assinine at worst. However, I would agree that there does seem to be a pattern of neglecting various subfactions by the development team.