City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Old Idea? Interchangable Powers?

Aggelakis

By Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2010-04-25 15:17 in Suggestions and Ideas

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
No, you miss-understand me on both ends. The devs apperently did try to make a character swapping teleportation option. This apperently could not reasonably done, which is fine. So the idea of having multiple character slots for the same concept isn't refined. So instead I thought up an option of having one slot act as about 4 different types. So you get around the current impossibility of the character switching a little.
ok. so what about dual builds? they may have the same powers to pick from, but the choices can make the character feel quite different. and there is no reason to have the same character start at level 1 again. that is why we can make alts. your idea does nothing that you think it does. all it is is starting an alt toon.

 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post

I am most perplexed with this community, as ideas get more, "never going to happen", than an "I like it" or "I don't like it".
The reason you see "Never going to happen" is because, with much of what you've put out there, that's *precisely* what we've been told.

I've said this elsewhere. There are four reasons the devs tend to give as negatives on an idea:

1. It's not feasable to do with current manpower/budget. This list is getting shorter with the larger staff and more funding from NCSoft. Items like power customization used to be on it. (I think MA used to be, as well, come to think of it.)

2. It's not doable with the current engine. Items like running up walls with superspeed, grappling and stretching sets are here.

3. It would not turn out to the standards we want. This is a newer one on this list, and it's often a mix of #1 and #2. BABs stance on underwater zones, for instance, falls here. (In some ways, so do extensive zone revamps.) This one, like #1, can change as they find techniques that would create it to the standards they set for their end product. Other times, it ends up leading into the next reason:

4. "No." Not "It can't be done," but just flat out "no." "Full respecs" (switch primary/secondary/AT) and all variants thereof are here. The devs don't see this fitting into the game, and in the end, it's their call, even if the idea is technically feasable and easily doable.

So when you're getting told, "Never going to happen," read a bit farther and find out why. You'll usually find one of the above reasons behind it.

 

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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
And the Dev post/thread for this is... where, exactly?
From here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218838

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Did you ever consider creating a power that would instantly swap your toon with another one from your account? E.g., you could exchange your blaster with a healer without logging off, remaining in your team/task force (similar to a kheldian form shift).

Posi- We considered it a few years back, but the tech hurdle was insurmountable without a complete overhaul of several systems

 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
He asked a question so... LEAVE.
Okay. I'm going to take you on directly again.

From here:

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What is the chance of having a "wipe clean" respec for a toon to repick powers or Archtype. I have been told the reason is no heroes ever change their powers. I have to disagree on that. Superman Red/Blue or Guy Gardner and their are a lot more. A vetpwr?

Posi - The reason isn't that those characters don't, it's more that a complete overhaul invalidates a ton of work we've put into making the game alt-friendly.
This was already addressed in one of your other threads, found here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218960

Now, in that thread, you started out saying this:

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With the live questions answered on Friday I would like to make note that there will be no full respec.
You, at some point, obviously have read with comprehension that the developers said no to full respecs. Not:
  • No, the engine cannot handle it
  • No, it's too much work work
  • No, we're not sure it will work well.


They said: No, it does not fit our goals with the game.

And yet, despite the QA being posted 04-23-2010, 11:32 PM, you started a thread at Old 04-25-2010, 04:16 AM... less than 48 hours later... promptly trying to figure out another way around not getting a Full Re-specification. That thread got shot down in a hurry.

So here we are, this thread, started at 04-25-2010, 10:17 PM... so pretty much the same day... respinning the idea that the devs already said NO to. You even admitted in the opening post that you saw just how opposed to the concept the forum-player base was:

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With the option of a full respecification happening, and the sheer apparent hatred of the idea out there,
Here's a hint: Quit trying to spin a design choice that the developer's don't agree with. If you are going to propose any kind of system that is a radical change to the direction of the game and the ideals of the game, you'd better have some really good reasoning behind it.

Now, I'm not saying that the developers minds can't be changed. There have been several changes through the years that have been made after player input. Unfortunately, my search-fu is weak, and despite using both Google and Yahoo, and searching for the terms suggestions; improvements; list; player; made; implement; implemented in any combination, I can't find a list of player made suggestions that were implemented in the game... even though I know a couple people have compiled such lists.

Anyways, the developers can be convinced to roll back changes, or implement ideas that they may not have intended to implement. However, much of these changes have generally been justifiable. They don't go completely counter to what the game is.

Which is where we get back to your suggestion. Okay, fine. Full Re-Specifications and automagically changing powers is pretty much par for the course from the likes of TopCow, Image, Marvel, and DC. However, City of Heroes is none of those. It's is own game, with it's own design goals, and it's own features. The development staff decided to make the game friendly to having multiple avatars with multiple play styles and multiple experiences.

What you want, does not fit what the game is, and what the game is being designed to be. It doesn't matter how you spin it, what restrictions you place on it, or whatever... the developers are not going to implement any system that allow you to automagically become another power set or archtype.

 

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Unfortunately, my search-fu is weak, and despite using both Google and Yahoo, and searching for the terms suggestions; improvements; list; player; made; implement; implemented in any combination, I can't find a list of player made suggestions that were implemented in the game... even though I know a couple people have compiled such lists.
...why use Google or Yahoo to search our forums when we have our own search function? Searching on player suggestions implemented got this result on page 2: Suggested by Players - Implemented by Devs - List. You'll note that even though the thread is from 2006, FOUR YEARS AGO, there were already a ton of implemented player suggestions.

There are probably newer versions of the same list, with updated player-suggested features/tweaks/whatever, but I stopped when I got a hit.

Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Okay. I'm going to take you on directly again.

From here:



This was already addressed in one of your other threads, found here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218960

Now, in that thread, you started out saying this:



You, at some point, obviously have read with comprehension that the developers said no to full respecs. Not:

  • No, the engine cannot handle it
  • No, it's too much work work
  • No, we're not sure it will work well.


They said: No, it does not fit our goals with the game.

And yet, despite the QA being posted 04-23-2010, 11:32 PM, you started a thread at Old 04-25-2010, 04:16 AM... less than 48 hours later... promptly trying to figure out another way around not getting a Full Re-specification. That thread got shot down in a hurry.

So here we are, this thread, started at 04-25-2010, 10:17 PM... so pretty much the same day... respinning the idea that the devs already said NO to. You even admitted in the opening post that you saw just how opposed to the concept the forum-player base was:



Here's a hint: Quit trying to spin a design choice that the developer's don't agree with. If you are going to propose any kind of system that is a radical change to the direction of the game and the ideals of the game, you'd better have some really good reasoning behind it.

Now, I'm not saying that the developers minds can't be changed. There have been several changes through the years that have been made after player input. Unfortunately, my search-fu is weak, and despite using both Google and Yahoo, and searching for the terms suggestions; improvements; list; player; made; implement; implemented in any combination, I can't find a list of player made suggestions that were implemented in the game... even though I know a couple people have compiled such lists.

Anyways, the developers can be convinced to roll back changes, or implement ideas that they may not have intended to implement. However, much of these changes have generally been justifiable. They don't go completely counter to what the game is.

Which is where we get back to your suggestion. Okay, fine. Full Re-Specifications and automagically changing powers is pretty much par for the course from the likes of TopCow, Image, Marvel, and DC. However, City of Heroes is none of those. It's is own game, with it's own design goals, and it's own features. The development staff decided to make the game friendly to having multiple avatars with multiple play styles and multiple experiences.

What you want, does not fit what the game is, and what the game is being designed to be. It doesn't matter how you spin it, what restrictions you place on it, or whatever... the developers are not going to implement any system that allow you to automagically become another power set or archtype.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
...why use Google or Yahoo to search our forums when we have our own search function? Searching on player suggestions implemented got this result on page 2: Suggested by Players - Implemented by Devs - List. You'll note that even though the thread is from 2006, FOUR YEARS AGO, there were already a ton of implemented player suggestions.

There are probably newer versions of the same list, with updated player-suggested features/tweaks/whatever, but I stopped when I got a hit.
I saw one about 3 weeks ago that I was looking for that was fairly up-to-date. So I wasn't searching for posts from 3 to 4 years ago.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Yep.
Where does it come from? The animation, that is I've been wondering since it showed up as your avi

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Where does it come from? The animation, that is I've been wondering since it showed up as your avi
To be perfectly honest I simply googled animated avatars and I stumbled across it on one of the dozen or so sites that popped up. I didn't keep track of site names and just saved a bunch of avatars to my photobucket account. People seemed to like this one when I put it up so I left it.

I have no idea where it originally came from, but it pops up on several sites if you google images and search "animated drinking squirrel avatar"

 

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For some reason I want to say The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe movie had a scene with a drinking rodent...could have been the beaver or something else tho.

 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Fix't.
Yeah, the problem with that is if you want to respec your villain, you're SOL. You either have to swap side, do a respec, then swap back, or... Well, you're SOL. I really, REALLY hate the concept of that decision. I mean, it gives us a possibility, but it's a very, very awkward one.

To be honest, I'd say they need to just bite the bullet and give villains regular Epics. I'm sure at this point few will complain that villain-side is being favoured by the developers just because heroes don't get completely new Patron powers with fully-developed storylines in return.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Yeah, the problem with that is if you want to respec your villain, you're SOL. You either have to swap side, do a respec, then swap back, or... Well, you're SOL. I really, REALLY hate the concept of that decision. I mean, it gives us a possibility, but it's a very, very awkward one.
Yeah, just saying it was possible soon(tm).
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To be honest, I'd say they need to just bite the bullet and give villains regular Epics. I'm sure at this point few will complain that villain-side is being favoured by the developers just because heroes don't get completely new Patron powers with fully-developed storylines in return.
I've wanted to see both for a while. AFAIC, villainside needs some favoring anyway. I hate hearing "parity" as a reason, like we were given as to why VEATs were set to unlock at 50. Just a lousy reason IMHO in many instances.

 

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
E.G., Blaster's won't ever be getting Martial Arts as a secondary. Sorry, it's not happening.
Why do you say that? It's VERY possible to build a MA style blaster secondary.

A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

 

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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina View Post
Why do you say that? It's VERY possible to build a MA style blaster secondary.
Um. I have lots of reasons for saying that. I could start with the developers stated belief that the existing Energy Manipulation is already too melee heavy for a blaster. I could start with the developers already stated design goal for further manipulation sets to follow the Psychic Manipulation model. I could start with the point that anybody who really thinks that Martial Arts makes for a Blaster Secondary power set does not, I repeat, DOES NOT, understand the archtype or the design goals of the manipulation sets.

This really isn't unknown information. It's been out there for several years now, and Positron / War Witch / Castle haven't shown any sign of re-visiting the concept.

 

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
I could start with the point that anybody who really thinks that Martial Arts makes for a Blaster Secondary power set does not, I repeat, DOES NOT, understand the archtype or the design goals of the manipulation sets.
IMO, most arguments for more melee type powers for blasters or a non epic ranged/defense archetype are simply attempts at creating a Dual Pistols scrapper. That's an argument for another forum though.


>

"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Um. I have lots of reasons for saying that. I could start with the developers stated belief that the existing Energy Manipulation is already too melee heavy for a blaster. I could start with the developers already stated design goal for further manipulation sets to follow the Psychic Manipulation model. I could start with the point that anybody who really thinks that Martial Arts makes for a Blaster Secondary power set does not, I repeat, DOES NOT, understand the archtype or the design goals of the manipulation sets.

This really isn't unknown information. It's been out there for several years now, and Positron / War Witch / Castle haven't shown any sign of re-visiting the concept.
Okay, can you come up with any more reasons besides those 3?

You said you had lots.

 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Okay, can you come up with any more reasons besides those 3?

You said you had lots.
It's called the MacLeod defense.....


>

"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat