Eh...
I'm all for letting players buy every "Vet Reward" package there is for $9.99 each. But they must be purchased in order, and don't come with the badge.
Why? Because all analogies are flawed. Nothing is being taken away from anyone, noone is losing anything. And anyone willing to spend $239.76 to get all the cool vet rewards is probably someone who A) Intends to play for freaking ever or B) Has a ton of cash they don't mind -wasting- on a game they don't intend to play for a long time and they'll quit since they've "Nothing to look forward to"
If a person falls into category A then we've gotten $239.76 in revenue we would not otherwise get, in addition to their $15 a month fee. This player will use their toys and enjoy them, probably for years to come before buying more vet rewards as they come out. Why do I say probably? Your mind is tricked into spending money on things you've spent money on. This is why people repair cars over and over for years on end rather than simply replacing the car. It feels like a huge investment so you continue to put more money into it.
If a person falls into category B then we've gotten $239.76 in revenue we would not otherwise get, in addition to their $15 a month fee for however long they play. If they only play for 3 months they it's still a huge net gain over what Paragon and NCSoft -would- have gotten out of them.
No. It is not like someone buying their way into a company that you've worked at for years. It's more like going to your favorite gaming shop for five or six years running. You feel you know the owner and the regulars, and you get some awesome items in tournaments you run. Then someone else walks into the shop and buys a different copy of the item you won in a tournament from behind the counter and joins in your game. Does this take anything from you? No. No it does not. It adds to the hobby, but you still -earned- yours rather than having to pay for it.
Of course, that's another mental trick that comes up pretty often. Someone else purchasing, for what appears to be less, what someone else feels they've earned. Like a boy working a paper route for a year to earn enough money to buy that Captain Commando playset with all the neat accessories. Meanwhile his rich neighbor buys the same Captain Commando Playset without earning it. The Paper Boy feels cheated, since he had to earn the money to get his toy. But in the end the Paper Boy still has his playset, the rich kid still has his playset. And all is still right in the world.
Of course this entire argument is ultimately futile, and a waste of everyone's time. So I'll suggest we all just let it die and not reply to it or any other thread with similar direction. We'll instead send PMs to the person making the suggestion, informing them of our individual opinions and the general consensus of the forums that it will never happen. Meanwhile the thread will float, gracefully to the bottom of the forums.
-Rachel-
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You're b**ching and moaning right now about my assumption that you b**ch and moan. So thanks for proving my point. |
Originally Posted by Nite Wraith
I'm sorry, do you know me? No, you don't. So don't assume that I'm a moaner, I am but I moan about stuff a lot more important than issues with this game. Thank you
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Its true. I lose nothing, nor gain nothing. But my Analogy is still a valid one because this is an argument of Time Versus Reward and you cant honestly say it wouldnt upset you. Whether you choose to accept it or not. We dont gain what we have by participating in tournaments or by having more alts or what ever. We get them from Time Subscribed Playing. Your Analogy is flawed XD I do agree with you on one thing though. Futile argument. I believe in earning things in this world, you believe everyone should get what they want reguardless Two different worlds.
"We knew that the current PvP community wasn't likely to react well to the changes as they wern't who we were making changes for, so it's understandable that there is continuing complaints from that segment." - Lighthouse; i13 PvP Forums October-08 The only person honest enough to tell us the truth. You will be missed, Lighthouse :-(
@Nezz - Guardian For Life!!! @_o...
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How am I ******** and moaning? I'm making a suggestion and setting you straight. If anyone is moaning and whining it's you for the way you objected to my post and now you're trying to pick a fight with me. If you don't like my idea, just say so, don't try and start somthing.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You're b**ching and moaning right now about my assumption that you b**ch and moan. So thanks for proving my point.
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You know that actually is a really good idea. This will make it so that when people just join in they can have some of the stuff they were not here for, like waiting 3.5 years for the pre-order CoV helmets.Their actual vet level will stay the say and this way the Vets can get it for FREE as a veterans reward. While the others will just have to wait.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
if you can just buy them there's no point having them as 'veteran rewards', you might as well just put them in the NC Store at 14.95 each or whatever.
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Maybe only allow them to buy stuff up to a year or two from where they actually are?
P.S. Another idea would be to allow them to pay to double their vet level. That way there won't be any cherry picking, and they will still have something to look forward to. So every 3 months when they get a new level they can pay extra to add another level. Considering what is offered, $5 to $7.50 charge per upgrade might not be such a bad idea considering how many there are and what is really offered, as it is clearly less than an average booster.
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You were not making a suggestion, nor were you setting me straight in the previous response to me. Your post was intended to be teasingly humorous and laced with sexual innuendo.|
Originally Posted by Nite Wraith
How am I ******** and moaning? I'm making a suggestion and setting you straight. If anyone is moaning and whining it's you for the way you objected to my post and now you're trying to pick a fight with me. If you don't like my idea, just say so, don't try and start somthing.
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| I'm sorry, do you know me? No, you don't. So don't assume that I'm a moaner, I am but I moan about stuff a lot more important than issues with this game. Thank you |
Now being unable to deal with my turning your teasing around you, you have decided to take it as a personal attack and now are pretending to the martyred victim by implying I'm the big bad bully picking on you instead of pointing out the flaw in your original contribution to the suggestion. Which is a blatant falsehood.
Your idea:
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| I do agree with changing it to a points system . . . You should earn say 15 points per month. Costume peices cost 15 points, perma powers cost 30 points, 45 points and 60 points, depending on how prestigeous they are. |
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| Once you've used your points to cherry pick your favorite vet rewards you'll be left with looking at six years of nothing you like. Then you'll be right back here b****in and moaning that there's nothing for you to spend your points on. |
You might want to consider taking a break from posting if your response to criticism and light hearted wordplay is defensiveness and hostility.
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Okay, my apologies, I don't have internet access at work, and I've been posting on my phone all day, and emotes don't show, the code for them are just two white squares |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You were not making a suggestion, nor were you setting me straight in the previous response to me. Your post was intended to be teasingly humorous and laced with sexual innuendo.
I responded by teasing you right back, and I included the silly stuck out tongue emote to emphasize that I was indeed teasing. Now being unable to deal with my turning your teasing around you, you have decided to take it as a personal attack and now are pretending to the martyred victim by implying I'm the big bad bully picking on you instead of pointing out the flaw in your original contribution to the suggestion. Which is a blatant falsehood. Your idea: And my counter-argument: And as everyone can see we both used the word "You" in the same fashion as a collective number to represent a group of people rather than a single person, however, only one of us (Nite Wraith) chose to take it personally. You might want to consider taking a break from posting if your response to criticism and light hearted wordplay is defensiveness and hostility. |
So, I didn't know you were just teasing. Sorry for being defensive.
I do understand what you're saying, you can't please everyone of course, and as long as these suggestion forums are open there's always going to be people wanting change to suit them, and there's going to be counter arguments.
I do like the vet rewards and don't believe it should be removed and made purchasable, I just think that it could be done to please the majority.
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Originally Posted by Nite Wraith
Okay, my apologies, I don't have internet access at work, and I've been posting on my phone all day, and emotes don't show, the code for them are just two white squares
So, I didn't know you were just teasing. Sorry for being defensive. I do understand what you're saying, you can't please everyone of course, and as long as these suggestion forums are open there's always going to be people wanting change to suit them, and there's going to be counter arguments. I do like the vet rewards and don't believe it should be removed and made purchasable, I just think that it could be done to please the majority. |
Ah, the dreaded cell phones. Yeah, it's already hard enough to detect sarcasm and teasing using just a written form of communication. Taking away the emotes makes it a degree harder.
And for the record there are certain items I think never should have been made vet rewards and should be available to everyone. Primarily base decorations and costume pieces.
Now I wouldn't object to using costume pieces as vet rewards if there was a basic form given to everyone and a unique pattern of the same item as a vet reward.
Take the Samurai Armor for example. Give everyone access to the basic styles but reserve a very fancy design for the vet reward. Call it Daimyo or Shogun design. That way every one can use the basics if they want and they'll still look forward to the vet reward.
I still prefer keeping the powers as they are because they are spaced far enough apart that I still look forward to getting them. I currently have 2 accounts (69 months and 33 months) so I am fully aware of what it's like to play an account that doesn't have all the perks yet.
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Two things.|
Originally Posted by The_Nezz
Its true. I lose nothing, nor gain nothing. But my Analogy is still a valid one because this is an argument of Time Versus Reward and you cant honestly say it wouldnt upset you. Whether you choose to accept it or not. We dont gain what we have by participating in tournaments or by having more alts or what ever. We get them from Time Subscribed Playing. Your Analogy is flawed XD I do agree with you on one thing though. Futile argument. I believe in earning things in this world, you believe everyone should get what they want reguardless
Two different worlds. |
Time Subscribed is equal to money spent with the addendum of inflated perception of value (I spent X time "earning" something (while spending Y money) he should not be able to spend Z money without waiting X time)
And second: I've been playing since Issue 3 launched. And no. I would not mind one iota if this were implemented, tomorrow. I wouldn't spend $9.99 on any of the vet rewards (I've got more patience than wealth). But I wouldn't feel "Cheated" or put out. Just like I was -happy- they lowered the minimum level on EATs to 20. Sure I've got a 50 hero and 2 50 villains (one being a VEAT) but it doesn't cheapen my achievement for someone else t oget access to a toy I play with, too.
-Rachel-
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Two things.
Time Subscribed is equal to money spent with the addendum of inflated perception of value (I spent X time "earning" something (while spending Y money) he should not be able to spend Z money without waiting X time) And second: I've been playing since Issue 3 launched. And no. I would not mind one iota if this were implemented, tomorrow. I wouldn't spend $9.99 on any of the vet rewards (I've got more patience than wealth). But I wouldn't feel "Cheated" or put out. Just like I was -happy- they lowered the minimum level on EATs to 20. Sure I've got a 50 hero and 2 50 villains (one being a VEAT) but it doesn't cheapen my achievement for someone else t oget access to a toy I play with, too. -Rachel- |
I believe that what some people feel would be cheapened by changing things is the sentiment behind why the devs created the vet reward system in the first place.
The devs are telling us that hey you stuck by us thru the good times and the bad. You were here when things were at their worst and remained loyal. You gave us the chance to make things better when other people left. These perks are our way of saying thank you for sticking by our side.
Some people think that if the devs were to change things they are basically saying they didn't really mean they appreciated customer loyalty.
Oh, I agree that some, even MANY might feel that way. But I despise being told how -I- feel about a certain situation.
-Rachel-
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I feel the same as you, I was just offering another point of view for people to consider.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Oh, I agree that some, even MANY might feel that way. But I despise being told how -I- feel about a certain situation.
-Rachel- |
Some think the vets are acting like they are entitled.
Some think the entitlement issues are on the other end.
Some look at vet rewards as something to be earned.
Some look at them as the companies way of saying thanks for being loyal.
It's not a simple black and white disagreement between the haves and have not's. So the solution, if any is made, won't be simple.
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And what when they get to that 3.5 year make should they get there money back?|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
You know that actually is a really good idea. This will make it so that when people just join in they can have some of the stuff they were not here for, like waiting 3.5 years for the pre-order CoV helmets.Their actual vet level will stay the say and this way the Vets can get it for FREE as a veterans reward. While the others will just have to wait.
Maybe only allow them to buy stuff up to a year or two from where they actually are? P.S. Another idea would be to allow them to pay to double their vet level. That way there won't be any cherry picking, and they will still have something to look forward to. So every 3 months when they get a new level they can pay extra to add another level. Considering what is offered, $5 to $7.50 charge per upgrade might not be such a bad idea considering how many there are and what is really offered, as it is clearly less than an average booster. |
Eddit: Fixed the spelling. I usually check it. : /
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And? So? Some people are suggesting that we pay for vet rewards. So why not do the reverse and use vet rewards to get something you pay for? After all we are already playing for those 3 months. 3 months equal one vet reward, once transfer, or one slot.
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Originally Posted by Decorum
Except that now you're expecting what amounts to CASH rewards for that, since those are things you currently have to buy.
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Trying to decipher the misspellings gave me an aneurysm. |
Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
And what whin thay get to that 3.5 year make should thay get ther mony back.
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They already do that. Respecs, and free character slots are given out as vet rewards.
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Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
And? So? Some people are suggesting that we pay for vet rewards. So why not do the reverse and use vet rewards to get something you pay for? After all we are already playing for those 3 months. 3 months equal one vet reward, once transfer, or one slot.
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Veteran rewards are just that. Rewards for veterans. If joe-schmoe came by and bought them all in one sitting, they wouldn't be veteran rewards.
Veteran rewards are not game-breaking. A 63 month veteran has the same playing abilities as a brand new player. The only difference is costume pieces, and faster travelling. Game-wise, they are the same. Veteran rewards don't give you the fabled "I win" button after eleventy-billion months. They don't offer any perks that make you better than Mr. new-guy. Ohh, you can get to your mission faster. Cry me a river.
All they really do is give you costume parts, some of them aren't even very good. Kilts? Shoulder capes? I'll pass. I don't particularly like those. Veteran rewards are like the carrot and the end of the stick. They keep the player interested in staying subscribed. You want that awesome samurai armor? Stay subscribed for 18 months and it's yours! You want those wicked arachnos helmets? Stick around for 51 months. You see how it works?
Now, lets say we can buy them. I would immediately buy all the ones I want, especially the arachnos helmets. Now what? What incentive is there to keep me playing? I burn-out on all the fun stuff eventually, and then I leave. Guess what? When I leave, PlayNC loses money. And get this, if they lose money they can't pay for the game! Isn't that something?
Others have already said it, but they are really just a thank-you to everybody who's stuck with the game through thick and thin. For the people who didn't rage-quit during the great PvP-nerf. For the people who didn't leave at the first mention of ED. The people who have kept this game going with their subscription fees. They've been paying for years, so why not reward them? If you make them available for purchase, it's a monumental slap-in-the-face to all the true veterans here. Not because of the rewards themselves, but because what they've waited patiently for months for is now readily available to anyone with a big-enough paycheck. I guarantee you that people will leave if ever this were to happen.
TL;DR - No, veteran rewards are going to stay as they are. Quit your whining and wait in line like the rest of us.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?
I'm sure the devs will come up with more goodies to spend points on as time goes on. And using them to buy rename tokens, server transfers and character slots, as suggested in the last post would also be a good incentive instead of paying for them with real world money.