Old Story - Same Gripe - Assault Rifle coupled with Devices Just no Ummph
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-04-19 01:13 in Blasters
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I'm not Talen, but I'll answer this anyway: Dual Pistols/Devices.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Talen: what combos are worse than Ar/Dev in your opinion?
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I'd like to ask a related question:
What are some good uses for Time Bomb?
Every time this thread arises, it seems that Time Bomb gets panned by a seemingly implicit communal understanding. My AR/Dev isn't there yet (two more levels), but I'd like to think that someone has found a positive use for it.
Mostly what I'm visualizing is setting up ahead of time with layered stealth, using the time while it's counting down to place a couple mines and, if timed right, use FA just prior to the TB's sploding while you still have a taste of the Defiance from the mines.
The argument seems to me to be that the same result can be done in significantly more efficient fashions, but are there circumstances where Time Bomb is at least as viable an approach as the other tools in an AR/Dev's toolbox?
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Without any relevant technical data, I like to believe that Time Bomb has a place at the feet of an AV or GM.|
Originally Posted by D-Void
I'd like to ask a related question:
What are some good uses for Time Bomb? Every time this thread arises, it seems that Time Bomb gets panned by a seemingly implicit communal understanding. My AR/Dev isn't there yet (two more levels), but I'd like to think that someone has found a positive use for it. Mostly what I'm visualizing is setting up ahead of time with layered stealth, using the time while it's counting down to place a couple mines and, if timed right, use FA just prior to the TB's sploding while you still have a taste of the Defiance from the mines. The argument seems to me to be that the same result can be done in significantly more efficient fashions, but are there circumstances where Time Bomb is at least as viable an approach as the other tools in an AR/Dev's toolbox? |
The Reichsmann fight comes to mind. Where it takes a while. ~10 minutes, iirc. Longer if things don't go well.
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
Isaac Asimov
I've got an ar/dev who dates back to the early days of the game.
originally he was a super fun killing machine. then ED hit, he stopped being fun and I stopped playing him.
For a really long time.
I picked him up again a while back for experimental reasons- I wanted to see how he did after all the changes and see if I could haul him to 50, IO him out and see if that could recapture some of the fun of the olden days.
I haven't finished his build, but he's okay to play.
Blasters are a lot easier to solo than back in the day and I got him to 50 no trouble, mostly soloing. I dislike waiting around for stuff so I didn't take Trip Mine, and I knew from experience that Time Bomb was a waste of a power. The new Auto Turret that follows you around looks cool and occasionally soaks up some aggro, so I can get past its piddling damage and short duration.
I wouldn't roll another ar/dev for the life of me. They are a terrible combination, which is especially lame since thematically they're a match made in heaven. Dev does nothing to make up for the (imho inexcusable) exclusion of Build Up. Back in the day the extra damage you got by six-slotting attacks for damage made up the difference, but since ED put the kibosh on that it is an absence you feel keenly.
All that said, he works great on a team. I didn't build him around trip mines, so teams steamrolling through missions doesn't really affect him. I uber-slotted all his cone AoEs (full auto, buckshot, flamethrower) and he can hold his own on a team- apply caltrops, cycle AoEs, and it's on to the next spawn.
IMHO it's one of the worst sets you can pick for synergy, but in my experience teaming actually *masks* its flaws. With other folks drawing aggro and buffing and debuffing the lack of build up isn't a big deal and you can cut loose with your heavy hitting AoEs without much worry.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Its a 9 second cast with 8 seconds where it can be interrupted. Then after it is cast it has a 15 second countdown.|
Originally Posted by Mercator
Without any relevant technical data, I like to believe that Time Bomb has a place at the feet of an AV or GM.
The Reichsmann fight comes to mind. Where it takes a while. ~10 minutes, iirc. Longer if things don't go well. |
I could see using it for soloing except that it would be far more effective and less nerve wracking to just place 3 or 4 trip mines in the same time
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Your right in many respects. Maybe I shouldn't have been so curt with my reply. My apologize for that. |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
You seem bound and determined to reach a preconceived conclusion no matter what anyone says here, so I'm not going to waste my time any further after this. I pointed that out as an example of ONE thing an AR/Dev can bring to a team (along with the AOE damage of AR) that makes them valuable team members. You decided to interpret that as saying I think your only purpose is to port people around and ghost missions.
Sounds to me like all your issues are really with Devices not Assault Rifle. This thread would have been a lot more productive if you had stuck to that one topic instead of jumping all over the place and making hyperbolic statements like "it would really be nice if AR when coupled with Device could be a viable spec." |
But nonetheless The AR / Device combo is an issue.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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Nope.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
I will answer my own questions. Targeting Drone at one time intended on giving a bonus to all AR attacks in attempt to bring up its lacking DPS. But when they could not fix an issue on test they scrapped the whole thing until they could figure out how to get it working properly. Instead they just gave the bonus to Sniper Rifle because of the damage type AR offers.
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Snipe's are entirely situational, and most effective when used to drop a minion who might cause trouble. Communications officers, engineers, that sort of thing. Without Aim or Build up that's too hard to pull off. You do *not* put extra damage in the most situational damage power to increase DPS. That makes no sense. They got a bonus to help with that single situation.
AR/Dev is viable. There's already been a dozen reasons given here, but I would just add that it's more strategy. Yeah, as Fire/Ice you can BU+Aim and go nuts. Hopefully you don't die. AR/Dev you cloak, smoke grenade, get into place, drop a trip mine then use your AoEs knocking entire mobs against the wall repeatedly. Anyone who gets close is blasted away. Caltrops to follow trip mine if the group lasts that long.
Not team friendly? Do what I see tons of scrappers doing. Skip to the next mob and set up when there's only a few targets left in the previous mob.
Even if you could squander up an argument that these sets don't synergize, or not well enough, the counter argument would be "use a different combination if you don't want the challenge." Honestly though? The other thematic obvious pair ups don't appeal to me as much. Ice/ has enough slows and holds that pairing with /Ice makes you more survivable, sure, but you were going to survive anyway. I'd rather /Mental or /Fire to throw some AoE oomf in there. AR/Dev doesn't give you way-more-than-enough in one department then not enough in another. Like others have said, DP/Devices would be worse. I am probably going to roll one soon anyway cause I just can't resist.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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How is this really a fair comparison? You can put up any blaster Primary in front of Fire Blast and declare that it has inferior DPS because Fire Blast primarily excels in that regard. It's also weird that you mention AR having too many AOE's in comparison to ST, and then throw it up against Fire Blast, which only has one more ST attack than AR, and that's Blaze which requires you to be on top of the enemy to utilize. Which is not to say that the argument is wrong, just that your example is wonky. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
AR/Dev A combo I really want to like, its a shame that it just underperforms.
To the OP, you hit the nail on the head with the big failing of the combination. No Aim, No Buildup gimps you. There is very little you can do to work around this and unfortunately its just the beginning. After you get past the lack of Aim and Buildup, you then hit weapon redraw, after you get past weapon redraw, you hit the fact that AR has too many AOEs that you don't need and no ST chain to speak of. After you get past that you hit the fact that everything in devices is slowing you down. If you look at the time lines its just ugly and if you look at where things are dieing it shows just how irrelevant the extra AOE and powers from devices are Fire/Ice blaster Aim 1s Buildup 2s Fire breath 5s Fire Ball 6s --- Minions gone Lts almost gone Rain Of fire 8s --- Lts in the rain soon dead Or Blaze --- boss nearly dead AR/DEV Runup to toe bomb 2s Plant Trip Mine 7s Run back to position for Full Auto (weapon redraw during run) 8s Full Auto Minions gone if they were hit by both the FA and Mine 12 s Some minions gone Lts if skillfully done badly hurt. You wind up much better off simply avoiding the entire trip mine/time bomb/Gun Drone AR Caltrops 1s Full Auto (Weapon Redraw inc) 6S -Minions not yet dead but damn likely to be targeting you M30 8S Minions Gone if you got them with both the full auto and the M30 At this point you need to either run in for the short range AOEs or use ST attacks. If yo The other elephant in the room here, is that Full auto is DOT that aggros from the moment you pull the trigger and the targets can and will respond while you are stuck in the animation. |
Any AR/Dev worth his salt isn't waiting around to clean up the mob after his volley of AOE's. He should be leaving for the next spawn to set up a bomb to maximize his damage potential. Using the Jousting Technique, the spawn should already be heavily damaged by the time the rest of the team arrives. If you really wanted to calculate the time elapsed fairly, the AR/Dev should be starting *after* he has blown everyone to pieces, not after. Furthermore, why do we just assume that the Fire Blaster is already in optimal range for everything, but count the amount of time it takes for the AR/Dev to move around? Such a calculation is obviously going to become one-sided when done in this method.
I also find it strange that you mention Full Auto rooting you being a concern for damage while leaving out the fact that the second you start this AOE Dervish your Fire Blaster is going to be receiving hell from the spawn. Unless you wait for the Tanker or Controller to lock down the enemies you put yourself at great risk. Sure, you can get them under control with your secondary as well, but you must either wait to use your chain, have a high defense build, or risk dying during the returning Alpha Strike. Either way, you are cutting into your DPS to secure the mobs. Meanwhile your second example of AR is disingenuous by assuming that it needs to throw out protection abilities such as caltrops while Fire Blast doesn't have to do anything. Again, you've tilted the results in Fire Blasts favor.
AR/Dev doesn't really have this problem as he begins combat by knocking everyone on their ***. If you then joust Full Auto or Flamethrower you are going to be far away from any retaliatory fire. Even if you don't you can then fire off buckshot or m30 grenade to again put everyone on their butts and then use whichever of your cone attacks you didn't use after the Trip Mine. The AR/Dev is going to be able to pull ahead in damage in this regard because he's already softened/killed much of the spawn before the rest of the time even arrived. 'Ol Fire Blaster probably isnt' going to load Build-Up and unleash hellfire when so much of his damage would be wasted after the AR/Dev has handled the situation in a much quicker and safer manner than he is capable.
Finally, while Build Up + Aim is a very nice combo, it has a 90 second recharge. Without throwing IO's into the mix, the lowest you can get this down is 30 seconds with Hasten, which also isn't going to be up 100% of the time. Unless you're willing to wait 30-45 seconds between spawns, AR/Dev is going to pull ahead by being able to make alpha strikes all over the map in relative safety.
If I had to cite one major problem with AR/Dev it would be the weapon redraw, which can begin to be problematic when you need to switch between Dev powers and AR powers.
*EDIT* Also, Rain of Fire's damage potential is greatly wasted at the end of the chain, but you'd have to set up some sort of control ability if you wanted to use it at the start of the battle which would probably cut into your DPS. I only mention it because after running the numbers the DPS for fire in comparison to AR is very close because of when RoF is used.
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Not if you slot for range. =D|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
....and that's Blaze which requires you to be on top of the enemy to utilize.
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| *EDIT* Also, Rain of Fire's damage potential is greatly wasted at the end of the chain, but you'd have to set up some sort of control ability if you wanted to use it at the start of the battle which would probably cut into your DPS. |
Not to defend AF's points in any way-he seems to be showing the same form here that landed him on my ignore list in the market forum.
there's no real comparison between my fire/ice and my ar/dev, the first is hugely better than the other in every game situation.
Which isn't to say the ar/dev is "unplayable" or "not viable" or whatever, people play all kinds of sub-par sets in this game and have a fine time doing it. But measuring objectively, it's no contest.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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On that note, Full Auto + Chance for Knockdown is pretty sexy as well.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Not if you slot for range. =D
Throw a Ragnarok: Chance for Knockdown in there and it makes a great alpha (assuming you're 50 of course). Not to defend AF's points in any way-he seems to be showing the same form here that landed him on my ignore list in the market forum. |
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| there's no real comparison between my fire/ice and my ar/dev, the first is hugely better than the other in every game situation. |
I also think /Ice looses a lot of it's charm at 41 when the Ice Epic can basically replace the entire thing without much fuss. I suppose /Ice could just pick another Epic, or none at all, but the others seem very 'meh' in comparison.
I've actually seen what the OP is talking about.
Now when I form a TF, I'll let people to bring what they think is fun. But I also don't try to speed through the TFs.
Now I've run with people, who will either 1) Build what they consider an optimal team or 2) turn away toons they don't consider optimal.
And in both cases, I've seen AR/DEV toons turned away.
Even on ITFs, where the knockback is less likely to happen.
This isn't limited to AR/DEV, and tends to be some what of a AR thing though.
Though on some things, I've seen blasters turned away on some team makeups, just because they canbe squishy. So, if they do invite a blaster, it tends to be a blaster they know.
This is stuff I've seen happen. Of course, these people are also the type of player to not invite Kheldians...sooo *shrug*.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Indeed!|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
On that note, Full Auto + Chance for Knockdown is pretty sexy as well.
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I celebrated hitting 50 by grabbing a Rag proc, dropping it in and popping into the nearest hazard zone for some fun.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I've actually seen what the OP is talking about.
Now when I form a TF, I'll let people to bring what they think is fun. But I also don't try to speed through the TFs. Now I've run with people, who will either 1) Build what they consider an optimal team or 2) turn away toons they don't consider optimal. And in both cases, I've seen AR/DEV toons turned away. Even on ITFs, where the knockback is less likely to happen. This isn't limited to AR/DEV, and tends to be some what of a AR thing though. |
My fire/ice gets team invites virtually every time I log him in, even if it's just for a few minutes to fiddle with the market.
I can't remember the last time anyone gave my ar/dev the time of day...and I was playing him heavily for quite a while on the push to 50.
Which only speaks to player perception, not reality...although in this case the two are fairly accurately aligned.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Well part of the problem may be, that blasters are easier to find, so when some is looking for a blaster specifically, they know they have leeway in getting what they want from a blaster.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
My fire/ice gets team invites virtually every time I log him in, even if it's just for a few minutes to fiddle with the market.
I can't remember the last time anyone gave my ar/dev the time of day...and I was playing him heavily for quite a while on the push to 50. Which only speaks to player perception, not reality...although in this case the two are fairly accurately aligned. |
If they're looking for a blaster, the can decide between an AR/Dev, Fire/MM, or AR/MM, they're likely to go with the Fire/MM, as they'll have less risk of a really really bad player.
With the /MM side, they know they're likely to see a bit more AOE (not always the case mind you), and a possibly if they're going up against hard targets, added -regen.
AR/ vs Fire/, they'll likely look at it and go, since they don't know any of them, they don't know how good the AR is at controlling the knockback, and pick the Fire/ just for that reason.
And I've seen some of those with KB, who just went in and scattered mobs left and right. And while I can usually handle such a thing, alot of people can't or just don't want to.
KB isn't fun when it's knocking enemies off of Ice Patches or out Tar Patches...ect...ect.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I feared that was the answer, since that's exactly what I'm planning to make. |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
I'm not Talen, but I'll answer this anyway: Dual Pistols/Devices.
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Must resist... the urge... to make a Traps/DP Defender instead...
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the only time I enjoy KB is when I'm soloing, and then it's lots and lots of fun.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
KB isn't fun when it's knocking enemies off of Ice Patches or out Tar Patches...ect...ect.
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Note to AR soloists: KB set IOs are cheap, plentiful and pack some quality bonuses!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Just about any primary works in that example. With the possible exception of Ice.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
How is this really a fair comparison? You can put up any blaster Primary in front of Fire Blast and declare that it has inferior DPS because Fire Blast primarily excels in that regard. It's also weird that you mention AR having too many AOE's in comparison to ST, and then throw it up against Fire Blast, which only has one more ST attack than AR, and that's Blaze which requires you to be on top of the enemy to utilize. Which is not to say that the argument is wrong, just that your example is wonky.
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| Any AR/Dev worth his salt isn't waiting around to clean up the mob after his volley of AOE's. He should be leaving for the next spawn to set up a bomb to maximize his damage potential. |
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| If you really wanted to calculate the time elapsed fairly, the AR/Dev should be starting *after* he has blown everyone to pieces, not after. |
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| Furthermore, why do we just assume that the Fire Blaster is already in optimal range for everything, but count the amount of time it takes for the AR/Dev to move around? Such a calculation is obviously going to become one-sided when done in this method. |
If you actually read the second example it used nothing but attacks that didn't require the AR/Dev to reposition. If you want to use any of the AOEs except M30 as a follow up for you would need to reposition or wait, and that makes things worse for the AR/Dev
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| I also find it strange that you mention Full Auto rooting you being a concern for damage while leaving out the fact that the second you start this AOE Dervish your Fire Blaster is going to be receiving hell from the spawn. |
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| Meanwhile your second example of AR is disingenuous by assuming that it needs to throw out protection abilities such as caltrops while Fire Blast doesn't have to do anything. Again, you've tilted the results in Fire Blasts favor. |
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| AR/Dev doesn't really have this problem as he begins combat by knocking everyone on their ***. |
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| If you then joust Full Auto or Flamethrower you are going to be far away from any retaliatory fire. |
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| Even if you don't you can then fire off buckshot or m30 grenade to again put everyone on their butts |
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| Finally, while Build Up + Aim is a very nice combo, it has a 90 second recharge. Without throwing IO's into the mix, the lowest you can get this down is 30 seconds with Hasten, which also isn't going to be up 100% of the time. Unless you're willing to wait 30-45 seconds between spawns, AR/Dev is going to pull ahead by being able to make alpha strikes all over the map in relative safety. |
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| *EDIT* Also, Rain of Fire's damage potential is greatly wasted at the end of the chain, but you'd have to set up some sort of control ability if you wanted to use it at the start of the battle which would probably cut into your DPS. I only mention it because after running the numbers the DPS for fire in comparison to AR is very close because of when RoF is used. |
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Electric or Psychic? |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Just about any primary works in that example. With the possible exception of Ice.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
What you have aggroed will be sure to join you. Just what is the damage potential of a dead blaster ?
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well mostly because if you want to toe bomb and use full auto you can't be at the same place and have any hope to get the whole spawn. (Possible exception Cimerorans on the wall). Full auto is a very narrow cone 20 degrees I believe. The fire blaster can cover the entire spawn with his attacks from 40 feet away.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
If you actually read the second example it used nothing but attacks that didn't require the AR/Dev to reposition. If you want to use any of the AOEs except M30 as a follow up for you would need to reposition or wait, and that makes things worse for the AR/Dev
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
What was the recharge on Full Auto again ?
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Really the attack chain comparison was just silly. It is very plain to see that it was stilted and the times were biased, and if that weren't enough the AR/Dev chain was not the best nor most realistic.
Compare it to something like this:
Fire/:
Fireball 2s
Inferno 5s
Rest Until Endurance is Back 35s
Fireball 37s
AR/:
Cycle between Buckshot, M30 Grenade, and Flamethrower with them between you and a wall until they die. Way less than 37s.
Oh and Full Auto if it's a good set up for it.
I'm being facetious of course, but that's the sort of strawman argument that was put up before.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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Gun Drone + Trip Mine = 12s|
Originally Posted by Gilia
This is what makes me think you haven't played AR/Dev. You Gun Drone and Trip Mine for aim-level defiance damage, then Full Auto. You don't HAVE to toe bomb with Trip Mines. The fact that AR/ is wicked with AoEs means you will draw people to where you're standing. With CJ+Hurdle for example, you hop a few feet back and they will run through your mines. |
You are already longer than the other attack chains without even firing an attack.
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| Any AR/Dev worth his salt isn't waiting around to clean up the mob after his volley of AOE's. He should be leaving for the next spawn to set up a bomb to maximize his damage potential. |
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| The problem with pointing to Full Auto is AR was on par for AoE attacks with Fire/ BEFORE Full Auto. |
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Really the attack chain comparison was just silly. It is very plain to see that it was stilted and the times were biased, and if that weren't enough the AR/Dev chain was not the best nor most realistic. Compare it to something like this: Fire/: Fireball 2s Inferno 5s Rest Until Endurance is Back 35s Fireball 37s AR/: Cycle between Buckshot, M30 Grenade, and Flamethrower with them between you and a wall until they die. Way less than 37s. Oh and Full Auto if it's a good set up for it. |
Flamethrower
2.3S (DOT for 7 seconds)
Buckshot
3.2S
M30
4.1S Nothing dead yet lots of things mad at you. Out of AOEs and nothing recharged.
5.9S First minion dieing
At 5.9 seconds you have done 2/3rds the damage fire did at 6 seconds and you have been aggroing the spawn for 50% more time than the fire blaster
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Definitely perception. My AR/Dev (L41) is constantly getting invitations (and, since it's the first thing in the comment, the invitees have to be aware of what I am). Well, not constantly. But usually a couple every hour. Only my Ill/Rad Controller seems to get more invites, actually.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
My fire/ice gets team invites virtually every time I log him in, even if it's just for a few minutes to fiddle with the market.
I can't remember the last time anyone gave my ar/dev the time of day...and I was playing him heavily for quite a while on the push to 50. Which only speaks to player perception, not reality...although in this case the two are fairly accurately aligned. |
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Reread Jousting Examples/How stealth works. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Just about any primary works in that example. With the possible exception of Ice.
What you have aggroed will be sure to join you. Just what is the damage potential of a dead blaster ? |
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| Please give an example of this fair calculation. |
You won't be able to use Full Auto every spawn because of it's recharge though, so you'll need to mix in some other AOE's such as m30 Grenade and the like. I would typically build for enough recharge so as not to need m30 grenade though as it's knockback with Trip Mine can get excessive.
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| Well mostly because if you want to toe bomb and use full auto you can't be at the same place and have any hope to get the whole spawn. (Possible exception Cimerorans on the wall). Full auto is a very narrow cone 20 degrees I believe. The fire blaster can cover the entire spawn with his attacks from 40 feet away. |
Complications arise mostly when within a tight corridor, which is why you would sometimes want to use Full Auto over Flamethrower; Because you won't have LoS after your jump.
However, the whole *point* of Jousting is that you move *while* shooting, so factoring in the time it takes to move from place to place is inaccurate.
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| If you actually read the second example it used nothing but attacks that didn't require the AR/Dev to reposition. If you want to use any of the AOEs except M30 as a follow up for you would need to reposition or wait, and that makes things worse for the AR/Dev |
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| Rooted time for for FA is 4 seconds, rooted time for Fire Ball and Blaze is 1, 2.6 for fire breath. |
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| Its a fire/ice blaster, Chilling embrace is a toggle that can be left running. |
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| Be nice if it could. But the absolute best it can do without procs is 50% |
*Edit* You meant chance. 50% is still a large number considering you are going to be out of range very soon.
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| Flame thrower has a range of 40 feet, which is exactly the same as blaze which you described as being "right on top of them" |
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| Some of them Everyone |
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| What was the recharge on Full Auto again ? |
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| Its there to finish off what is mostly dead. |
I've never had any trouble getting teams for my AR/dev blaster. In fact i get, by far, the most tells from random group[ leaders asking me if I want a team and they dont put me off when I say AR/dev. People like blasters on their teams and almost every group somebody makes a comment when thebullets start flying from full auto.
I dont use trip mine or time bomb when teaming. If its not a psycho fast group I will use gun drone and I definitely pull it out on AVs.
Soloing or duoing I use trip mine a ton. I drop one before every spawn in the middle of calrops before engaging. It is nice control for the stuff that gets through caltrops and its eay and quick to drop one each time. For EBs a nest of them laid down does wonders.
It's a set pairing for patient people. You can also stack some real nice ranged defense with diffrent set bonuses.
I think the strength of the sets are the different playstyle they can present compared to straight up nuking. Actually its a strength of CoH as a game that there are certain sets that play differently like dual blades and devices and traps and a set that has some over-the top style like dual pistols. Bravo to the devs for making sets that really do play differently.
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You are at 15 seconds + movement time for what you describe there to unload the damage. |
Originally Posted by Warkupo
Reread Jousting Examples/How stealth works.
Maybe later. It would require I build a giant DPS table and I don't really feel like whipping out the spread sheets for all the various situations I can think of. It would likely involve Trip Mine -> Flamethrower(Joust) -> Full Auto(100 ft)->Buckshot-> then evaluate the situation to either stay and do more damage, or go to the next group . |
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| Full Auto has a very long range, which greatly makes up for it's narrow cone. This is why it's usually optimal to use during or after the joust. 1 range enhancement let's you use Full Auto from 100 ft away, otherwise 80. Either way, when so far away your chances of getting hit are very slim. |
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I actually did read your second example. My concern in the second example is that you make the assumption that AR/Dev needs to use a mitigation move, but make no such assumptions about Fire/Ice. I'm supposed to just beleive you can throw all that fire at the enemies and they will kindly wait for you to finish, never retaliating in the slightest. If you actually read my post you might be aware of this. FA = Distance = Mitigation. Oh, good thing that's all the mitigation you'd ever need. In that case, my AR/Dev should be perfectly fine just taking Toughness and Caltrops/Snow Storm, right? |
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| Which has what to do with AOE vs Single Target? |
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| 60 seconds. 30.1 with 99% recharge, 22.3 with Hasten. You won't be using it after every Trip mine, but you *will* be setting up that Alpha regardless, so the point still stands. A Fire Blaster is going to be wasting his build up if a competent AR/Dev is with him because the AR/Dev is going to be applying damage before he gets there, and doesn't need to wait for the enemies to be held down to do so. |
Anyway at this point, I have given numbers and concrete examples to support my position, If you want to take a hammer to it come up with an example where AR/dev is outperforming. Aim and Buildup are just a really difficult pair to beat.
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Agreed! It's over the top animations are what make me enjoy the set more than any other blast set.|
Originally Posted by LogannX
I think the strength of the sets are the different playstyle they can present compared to straight up nuking. Actually its a strength of CoH as a game that there are certain sets that play differently like dual blades and devices and traps and a set that has some over-the top style like dual pistols. Bravo to the devs for making sets that really do play differently.
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The other blast sets I feel like I'm repeating the same motion over and over. With Dual Pistols, I don't feel that way at all. Thusly, allowing people to pick a variety of options to suit them.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Simply because the Device set is out dated. It is past its shelf life.