My Energy Melee thoughts.
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-04-15 15:52 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I did role one ages ago but the reason you dont see it is because of the rage debuff, -defence really kills shields a lot.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Well, I commonly see Fire Melee or Electrical Melee paired with Shields.Just last night when I rolled upt he WP/EM Tanker and went and did the Sewers.I was on a 7 man team that has 2 other tankers.Both Shield, and both Elec Melee.
I havnt see any SD/SS Tankers for a while. |
It is manageable but its easier to just pick a different set
Elec melee is popular at the minute with shield, because of the teleport powers which i dont understand since lightning rod has a stupid recharge for its damage anyway and shield charge isnt any better.
/fire all the way for AoE damage
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Castle already stated ages ago on forums that he wasnt sure if SS would keep perma rage, but he hasnt nerfed it yet so theres hope yet. The fact its survived so long surprises me in all honesty.|
Originally Posted by macskull
They've proven time and time again that they're willing to do this, so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.
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Usually when the devs want to feed the nerfhammer they feed it within a couple of months but SS has been the same for at least a year now.
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The debuff is easily manageable, not just manageable and if picking another set gives you tools as powerful as AAO and SC then I say go for it. I see quite a few shield/ss running around though. Well at least relative to the number of shield tanks you see, and the number of tanks you see period.
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Originally Posted by Predatoric
I did role one ages ago but the reason you dont see it is because of the rage debuff, -defence really kills shields a lot.
It is manageable but its easier to just pick a different set |
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For an experienced tanker its easily sorted yes, for a noob though its the point you think 'oh ****'|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
The debuff is easily manageable, not just manageable and if picking another set gives you tools as powerful as AAO and SC then I say go for it. I see quite a few shield/ss running around though. Well at least relative to the number of shield tanks you see, and the number of tanks you see period.
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As for tools like SC and AAO, they are good yes, but shield is not the best tanker set for anything other than defence and defence isnt that reliable to tank with until its softcapped anyway, even then heavy -defence mobs can flatten you in seconds if you dont have any purples.
There is a lot of -defence mobs out there too, all guns for instance are -defence, that alone counts for most of the NPCs in game.
Shield/SS has died down a bit, you do still see them but nowhere near as often as you did when shield first came out. Your much more likely to see some form of Elec now since its the new fave of month. Next will be kinetic melee and so forth.
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PvP was "fine" for 9 issues. EM was "fine" for 10 (changed between I9 and I10) issues. Psychic Shockwave was "fine" for 9 issues. No AoE caps, taunt caps, or aggro limits was "fine" for 5 and 6 issues respectively. The ability to slot more than 100% worth of a particular enhancement value was "fine" for 6 issues. The BotZ set bonuses were "fine" for 4 issues. Being able to buff pet recharge time was "fine" for 14 issues.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Usually when the devs want to feed the nerfhammer they feed it within a couple of months but SS has been the same for at least a year now.
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See what I'm getting at here?
(EDIT, on topic: you can completely negate the -def from the Rage crash by stacking Rage just before it wears off. In other words, the -def is only a worry before you get enhancements into the power.)
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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That even once the amount of time has passed where the slowest adopter would consider something to be a feature of the game the devs don't really care.|
Originally Posted by macskull
PvP was "fine" for 9 issues. EM was "fine" for 10 (changed between I9 and I10) issues. Psychic Shockwave was "fine" for 9 issues. No AoE caps, taunt caps, or aggro limits was "fine" for 5 and 6 issues respectively. The ability to slot more than 100% worth of a particular enhancement value was "fine" for 6 issues. The BotZ set bonuses were "fine" for 4 issues. Being able to buff pet recharge time was "fine" for 14 issues.
See what I'm getting at here? |
I once posed a question that asked at what point does a deviation from their vision become a feature that they accept. There is of course no consistent application of it and somethings you would have expected them to change when the opportunity presents itself they dubbed "feature" and other things you would have expected them to leave alone after years of it being common practice/knowledge have been drastically altered.
I've heard rumors of a dartboard being utilized more than once.
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| (EDIT, on topic: you can completely negate the -def from the Rage crash by stacking Rage just before it wears off. In other words, the -def is only a worry before you get enhancements into the power.) |
It's also somewhat amusing when they come out and give reasons as to why a particular change is made. For example, Castle was pretty honest when he said the changes to Psi Assault were to make it so the set wasn't a drag for 37 levels and then riding on PSW after that. Of course, for some people, PSW made that 37-level drag completely worth the wait (I PL'd straight through it so it was irrelevant to me, and I had about a month of PSW-y goodness before I15 went to test). He was also honest about the BotZ change (we didn't think it would be a problem in I13, but we decided it's too powerful so we're changing it).
However, some of the reasons given for the I13 changes were complete and utter bullsh*t, such as "Kins granting unsuppressed movement is a bug" (so why has this not been fixed in PvE, or why was such a terrible gamebreaking "bug" allowed to exist for 9 issues?) or "a team of casual PvPers can't beat a team of experienced PvPers" (duh?), and the reasons for the ET nerf weren't much better - "everyone laughs at you if you don't take EM." Ironically, most of that came from PvPers who knew that EM had really good single-target burst damage and so it was one of the best sets for correcting the "lol melee" thinking many had at the time. Even more ironically, nerfing EM helped make melee less viable in PvP than it had been before. Slightly off-topic: many people maintain that adding travel suppression to the game (not the current PvP implementation but the implementation that's been around since god-knows-when) was a PvP-based nerf, yet the "no travel suppression" arena option not only removes PvP travel suppression but removes any travel suppression at all which means it's (lol) possible to have no travel suppression in PvP while still getting suppressed for attacking in PvE.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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First of all, Ive got a 50 tank, brute, 2 blasters and stalker that all use EM, so when I talk about the set, I'm talking from experience not mids.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
I stopped reading here.
Energy is not an AoE based set and I wouldnt have it any other way. Energy is my second favorite attack set on tankers now, it used to be my favorite pre-i13 because of energy damage. SS being 2nd at the time and now first. If anything its SS that needs changing, Rage buffs power permenantly and doesnt affect resist based sets like elec, fire or dark at all. Energy is usually my PvP first choice, Build up > Energy transfer > Total Focus is great spike damage, and the best there is on tankers. SS however has the advantage in current pvp simply because it has a range attack and perma rage with knockout blow. Energy has its own specialisation, which is good it makes it unique. Dont knock it until you have tried it to 50. You cant judge a powerset you have only seen in mids, which a lot of people seem to do. Even in PvE, although it has its lack of AoEs, taunt and whirling hands is more than enough to hold agro combined with taunt aura. I know, I did it for 3 years on union lol and got team invites from people the second I logged on because I was in that much of a demand, it is in no way gimped like some people claim it to be and the -hp part of energy transfer is a minor annoyance yes, but since when does that much -hp bother a decent tanker with SO's or IO's? Never once have I died because of it. The set is aimed at doing more damage to the Alpha targets such as AV's, EB's and bosses, not at taking down full mobs. Fire excels at that however you should try that. Also if you did change it, it wouldnt just affect tankers, the same set is also on brutes and stalkers too (not sure about scrappers, never play them ) Those two would also get a remodification and Energy is still one of the brutes best sets too. Stalker not so much since the Energy Transfer nerf but you still see them running around.I should mention I have played a few energy tankers to 50, in fact upon just checking now, I actually have all the possible combinations of energy to level 50 except for elec, which I havent tried yet since Ive moved to american servers. The hardest hit by -hp was fire and dark, both heavily heal reliant. However this can be said about SS using rages -defence debuff with ice or shield. Its part of the set, you work around it however you can. Tankers can perform wonderful things with any build, if you know how to use them. Ice is the most gimped set in tankers abilties by far. Even Dual blades despite needing most of the powers in the set could still deal damage with combos. Dark has its -tohit, fire has DoT and AoE heaven, axe and mace are both average sets at best but they have been buffed since i played them, stone melee is basically SS without rage but higher standard damage and slightly better control, and SS its heavy damage alround because of perma rage whilst energy has single target damage in bursts higher than any other. Each attack set specialises in something, and as they are its only ice I think thats underperforming, everything else works great if used right. Frozen Aura is a laughable power in any level, the fact its tier 9 is just an insult. In short: Energy is fine as it is. Any changes to it would be stupid and pointless and hurt the powerset rather than do it good. If you want to change any tanker set, it should be SS with rage, it makes all the other sets pointless despite the fact without it, it is poor but who skips a perma +damage power that high? It should not be able to be perma simple as, make a 10s or 20s gap after set bonuses to put it in line with other sets. The fact that a lot of the population of tankers is SS or Elec tells you something. I dont think ive seen anyone without a concept playing an /ice tanker high level since I began the game. Its just a poor set, the slows dont do enough to justify such terrible damage and a useless tier 9 power. Frozen Aura is the single worst power in game, it needs changing to a long recharge hold or something not a sleep to make the set worthwhile. |
Secondly, nobody said the set is unplayable. We're saying it's sub par when compared to the sets it competes against. And it is, especially on the aoe side, which is more valuable in far more situations in this game, than its top notch single target ability is. That is why we are suggesting a buff to its aoe ability. So I'm not sure how you can argue this change is 'stupid and pointless and wouldn't do the set any good'... lol.
In regard to SS, it sounds like you should take your own advice and play a set to fifty before commenting on it. Because in terms of SS, if you nerfed rage in the manner you discusse, SS would be hands down the weakest set in the game. Why? Because SS flat out relies on rage to simply do damage on par with competing sets. The only edge rage gives SS is the to hit bonus. And while that bonus is nice in a few instances in pve, and allows for lower acc slotting, you pay for it with the rage crash which is at best annoying and at worst a pain on your blue bar. So if the devs did decide to nerf rage, they would need to rework the entire set.
And finally, most of the sets get lots of play. Obviously the aoe heavy sets get more play because again, aoe is more valuable than single target ability in this game becuase you are almost always facing more than one foe. Thats partly why SS (though as I said earlier, ss also benefits from being a very popular comic book power), elec and fire are so popular, and even SD which offers a great aoe nuke to pair with any alternate set. That's a big reason why we are arguing to buff EM's aoe abilities. Sure people played EM before the nerf, but that was primarily becuase it was so dominant in the old pvp format, which is now gone, along with any advantage EM had on competitors.
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Ha, that explains a lot.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I've heard rumors of a dartboard being utilized more than once.
Ya that's what I was trying to hint at when I stressed easily. I know the devs mentioned not being through with rage after the last round of changes. I like to keep stuff off of Castle's radar as I usually don't like the changes he does. |
And yeah, the last time they tried to 'fix' rage, they added a no recovery to the crash. People screamed bloody murder but it went to test anyway, and sure enough, death after death occured as the crash left players with empty blue bars, and consequently, no toggles, and sure enough it was reversed. But just the simple fact that a dev couldn't see how broken that kind of change would be and had to test it really shocked me.
People see 80% dmg bonus and are shocked by it without understanding the dmg bonus only puts SS on par with competing sets dmg wise. The power does nothing more than put SS on par with other sets dmg, while giving a great to hit bonus (which is overkill 99% of the time in pve) that is paid for with a def penalty (which can be negated by stacking the power, though I feel the penalty is overkill to begin with) and an end crash (that can be dangerous in the middle of a battle, especially while leveling if you don't have your end fully worked out yet), and 10 seconds of doing virtually no damage every two minutes which is really frustrating on a damage dealing toon. In short, rage is not as great as many believe it to be.*
*Obviously the to hit bonus is huge in pvp, but pvp is another game now entirely.
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Definitely. No explanation needed. That would be perfect I think. Slotting it with Obliteration or better makes up for the damage already.
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Originally Posted by Terror1
I would like to see whirling hands be buffed to 12-15ft radius and perhaps a higher target cap.
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Originally Posted by Predatoric
Castle already stated ages ago on forums that he wasnt sure if SS would keep perma rage, but he hasnt nerfed it yet so theres hope yet. The fact its survived so long surprises me in all honesty.
Usually when the devs want to feed the nerfhammer they feed it within a couple of months but SS has been the same for at least a year now. |
I believe the issue was stacking rage, not perma. Again, without perma-rage, SS would do subpar damage vs competing sets.
I'd support removing rage's ability to stack if they threw out the ten seconds of not being able to do any damage. Hell, if they dropped that ten seconds of no damage, they could even bring the to hit bonus down. I hate not being able to smash for ten seconds every two minutes...
The sudden end crash should be penalty enough for the 'bonus' of being able to do damage on par with other sets and a to hit bonus, imo.
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Its not an aoe set, why do we need another set thats exactly the same as others with a different glow? Energy is unique as it is, leave it alone. If you dont like Energy because it has rubbish AoEs, dont play it lol.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
First of all, Ive got a 50 tank, brute, 2 blasters and stalker that all use EM, so when I talk about the set, I'm talking from experience not mids.
Secondly, nobody said the set is unplayable. We're saying it's sub par when compared to the sets it competes against. And it is, especially on the aoe side, which is more valuable in far more situations in this game, than its top notch single target ability is. That is why we are suggesting a buff to its aoe ability. So I'm not sure how you can argue this change is 'stupid and pointless and wouldn't do the set any good'... lol. |
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
In regard to SS, it sounds like you should take your own advice and play a set to fifty before commenting on it. Because in terms of SS, if you nerfed rage in the manner you discusse, SS would be hands down the weakest set in the game. Why? Because SS flat out relies on rage to simply do damage on par with competing sets. The only edge rage gives SS is the to hit bonus. And while that bonus is nice in a few instances in pve, and allows for lower acc slotting, you pay for it with the rage crash which is at best annoying and at worst a pain on your blue bar. So if the devs did decide to nerf rage, they would need to rework the entire set.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
And finally, most of the sets get lots of play. Obviously the aoe heavy sets get more play because again, aoe is more valuable than single target ability in this game becuase you are almost always facing more than one foe. Thats partly why SS (though as I said earlier, ss also benefits from being a very popular comic book power), elec and fire are so popular, and even SD which offers a great aoe nuke to pair with any alternate set. That's a big reason why we are arguing to buff EM's aoe abilities. Sure people played EM before the nerf, but that was primarily becuase it was so dominant in the old pvp format, which is now gone, along with any advantage EM had on competitors.
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Again theres nothing wrong with energy melee at all, if you dont like single target hits, play an AoE based set and stop moaning for 'equality' because its talk like that, that got us i13 lolpvp.
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Hope you dont mind, but I decided to take that extreemly long winded reply and shorten it to the bare bones.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
I stopped reading here.
Energy is not an AoE based set and I wouldnt have it any other way. Energy is my second favorite attack set on tankers now, it used to be my favorite pre-i13 because of energy damage. SS being 2nd at the time and now first. Ice is the most gimped set in tankers abilties by far. Each attack set specialises in something, and as they are its only ice I think thats underperforming, everything else works great if used right. Frozen Aura is a laughable power in any level, the fact its tier 9 is just an insult. In short: Energy is fine as it is. Frozen Aura is the single worst power in game, it needs changing to a long recharge hold or something not a sleep to make the set worthwhile. |
As for you being fine with hitting 1 Target at a time with EM and having next to worthless AoE?Fine, thats your opinion.I will simply dissagree with it.Playing EM on my Tanker is a bit painful when a on a team with a Elec Armor/Ice Melee Tanker on a Sewers team and watching as it does way more damage to mobs then I do on my WP/EM.The same will be true at higher levels as well.
Frozen Aura is far from the single worst power in the game.I have no issues with it sleeping a mob.It has its uses.You just dont know how to use it, or simply want to mouth about the set.Or perhaps youv never used it before, or ill go even further then that.You may have only seen it once while being used on a horrible Tank Player.Problem is, Ice does rather good damage if you know what your doing with it.
As for the secondary effect?Ice Melee has slows, and a close proximity KD power from Ice Patch.So what does this mean?Simple.
1) Slows mean the mob attacks slower.Keeping them from swinging or shooting at you often, attacking you at a slower rate.Thats a very good midigation tool to have.
2) Ice Patch.Yes, it only effects 5 at a time.However thats 5 things unable to act.Means less attacks you and the team.
3) Frost is a very under estimated power.Used correctly with Frozen Aura.Its gives a good amount of slow secondary effect, and decent damage.This power is commonly skipped from what iv seen veiwing Ice Melee Tankers that run around in there 50s.
4) Frozen Aura and Frost are pure cold damage.Hardly anything resists Cold damage.This is where I stress that Mid's is commonly wrong.The numbers for Ice Melee in mids is low, however, if you take into account the exotic damage of the set your not missing much in the way of damage vs a Lethal or Smashing damage set.Mid's shows numbers, not Exotic Damages vs targets A-Z.Its all in your head.
I have a WP/EM Tanker and a Ice/Ice Tanker.There is going to be no possible way my WP/EM is ever going to have the control and mob wide damage my Ice/Ice Tanker will.If you belive otherwise, then again.Thats your opinion, but its not based in reality.
Also, as a side rant.Iv heard people say that the ST damage attacks in Ice Melee are weak as well.I have yet to have any difficulty in that area for my Ice Tanker.
As for EM?Well, my opinion about the set isnt a good one.However im biast towards ST builds.I rolled this Tanker simply "In Case" EM gets love in the future.
Fire, sorry if this was covered a little bit by other people, but keep in mind that the setting your missions to +8 is not the only setting we got with SSK. With my more ST focused characters, I tend to raise their levels more than the amount of heroes/villains I am considered. The challenge level does go up, as do the rewards.
Even with those settings, my MA/Regen Scrapper and Nin/Nin Stalker tend to bust through missions with a good amount of challenge and leveling plenty fast.
AOE is quite useful, but it's not everything. I tend to not like exemping my Fire/Fire Tank below 35, as I really do notice his lower ST damage when he loses both Incinerate and Greater Fire Sword. There are plenty of hard targets in the game, and ST damage is what you want there.
Energy Melee may need a little something to make it fly better, but it isn't that bad, especially when you try it out with the right expectations.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Fire, sorry if this was covered a little bit by other people, but keep in mind that the setting your missions to +8 is not the only setting we got with SSK. With my more ST focused characters, I tend to raise their levels more than the amount of heroes/villains I am considered. The challenge level does go up, as do the rewards.
Even with those settings, my MA/Regen Scrapper and Nin/Nin Stalker tend to bust through missions with a good amount of challenge and leveling plenty fast. AOE is quite useful, but it's not everything. I tend to not like exemping my Fire/Fire Tank below 35, as I really do notice his lower ST damage when he loses both Incinerate and Greater Fire Sword. There are plenty of hard targets in the game, and ST damage is what you want there. Energy Melee may need a little something to make it fly better, but it isn't that bad, especially when you try it out with the right expectations. |
Iv already figured at higher levels on the WP/EM build that ill be doing +4 solo missions set for 1-2 people.I just perfer a easier time fighting a 8 man mob.They drop fast, and exp comes easy if you can nuke a entire mob with little effort.
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From a solo perspective and a damage dealing point of view, I completely agree with you Predatoric. However,|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Its not an aoe set, why do we need another set thats exactly the same as others with a different glow? Energy is unique as it is, leave it alone. If you dont like Energy because it has rubbish AoEs, dont play it lol.
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I played a Fire/Energy Tank back at launch. My SG lead played an Invuln/SS Tanker.
When I reached the point of gaining access to WH, the amount of damage it did, even back then was disappointing, but thats not why I eventually dropped the character.
My belief, take it or leave it, is that Tanks need at least one "stellar" AoE power in their arsenal for taunt purposes. It doesnt have to be massive damage, but it should get some attention (so good Radius is more important than damage). Many Tanker AoEs fit this bill, like Fire Sword Circle, Footstomp etc... Back before "Gauntlet" I NEVER went into the "Presence" pool for help. It kinda "irked" me, in fact, that to make my Tank better at doing his "job" I needed a pool power.
So how about increasing the area of effect of Whirling Hands ? More damage would be gravy, but from a "tanking" point of view, the current radius is less than optimal.
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Except, that was the only thing going for EM. Now it sucks, and I hope they take a look at it in the future.
| Again theres nothing wrong with energy melee at all, if you dont like single target hits |
Frozen aura is a footstomp clone except rather than knockdown it does sleep. Given that few tanker aoes extend to that same 15ft range I'd actually lean toward frozen aura being a better power than footstomp (until IO's enter and you slot the +rech FF proc).
I'm beginning to wonder though, I mean you didn't know that rage's -def can be negated with just SO's and you didn't know that frozen aura was buffed quite some time ago to do the same damage as footstomp. I'm starting to worry that you might not know what you are talking about at all.
Unless you were talking about blaster frozen aura? in which case this conversation is all over the map.
Footstomp's radius is larger than Frozen Aura's (15 feet vs 10 feet).
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Improving the set's aoe ability certainly would not make it a clone of other sets, lol. It would simply allow it to compete with other sets performance levels. The only thing unique about EM right now is how slow the set plays and how pitiful it's aoe abilities are.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Its not an aoe set, why do we need another set thats exactly the same as others with a different glow? Energy is unique as it is, leave it alone. If you dont like Energy because it has rubbish AoEs, dont play it lol.
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You claim my only option is to not play EM if I don't like it's performance. Again, I disagree. Instead I will lobby for it to be improved so it's performance levels can become competitive with other sets.
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| On par is a joke of an assumption... without rage, yes it sucks big time, but with it its more powerful than the lot over time since its always got boosted damage. If it wasnt so powerful why would a majority of tankers play either that or elec? |
Why do so many people play SS? Again, because it's one of the better aoe sets with footstomp being one of the best aoe powers in the game, and the fact super strength is probably the most popular super power since the inception of comic books. And in pvp, the to hit bonus rage offers is a great asset, so far as melee toons go in pvp. Same thing with electric - big time aoe abilities, most notably it's monster teir nine nuke.
Why is aoe so popular? Because 99% of this game is fighting multiple opponents. The whole game is geared towards that. Even solo on the lowest settings, you'll be facing multiple opponents in each encounter. The simple fact is, aoe is king in pve.
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| It isnt gone in pvp format, its just crap for stalkers which doesnt mean much because there still a pain with gank forces anyway. PvE side it was never that popular on tankers anyway outside of PvP so why try to change it now? |
And I also said it wasn't that great in pve pre nerf several times. So why change it now? Gee, I don't know, maybe so more players will want to play it? Or maybe to benefit those who already have em toons in that they'll have an incentive to bother playing them again?
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| Again theres nothing wrong with energy melee at all, if you dont like single target hits, play an AoE based set and stop moaning for 'equality' because its talk like that, that got us i13 lolpvp. |
Asking for EM to get a buff to its aoe abilities is absolutely nothing like the i13 pvp changes. If there is a similarity in your mind, please explain how.
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You know I always just assumed it was 15ft because of the animation it shares with FS, fault and fissure (non doms as that was gimped ala Castle just for doms heh). And the large aoe gfx.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Footstomp's radius is larger than Frozen Aura's (15 feet vs 10 feet).
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It would appear footstomp is safe both IO'd and non then. Still one of the better aoe's available to tankers though and a far cry from
"Frozen Aura is the single worst power in game, it needs changing to a long recharge hold or something not a sleep to make the set worthwhile."
Unless again, he was speaking of the blaster version, which even still isn't near the "worst" power in the game
A long time ago I sent Castle a PM explaining my own view on "uniqueness withint cox". Basically, if something is going to occupy a niche is needs to dominate that niche. I used examples like ice armor resisting slows and cold damage, fire armor doing damage and resisting fire (this was of course long before shields came out and stole the damage crown). The post was directed at super reflexes even though I wasn't playing it at the time. I said, if super reflexes' specialty is defense and pretty much only defense then it needs to be able to maintain that defense at all times even when being debuffed. About 4 months later SR was sitting pretty at 95% DDR with just normal slotting of the powers.
I'm certainly not trying to take credit for that change in the game as I'm sure many other people were making similar suggestions, but rather highlighting a point.
Personally, I don't want an AoE boost to EM (I have nothing against those that do and wish them well). I'd much rather the design principle that states:
If EM is going to only be good at single target damage and single target mitigation then it needs to be the best at that.
What about fire melee? fire can do damage near it, but fire also does a lot of aoe, so the point stands.
So that means no more stone melee out controlling an entire group better than EM can control a single target. And no that doesn't have to come at the expense of Stone.
*It of course mandates that the statement about EM's damage be true, which in my view it should be, but the dev's could very well differ and likely do.
I would take a damage reduction on ET if its activation time could be reduced to something like 1.5 or 1.67 seconds (still more than the 1 second it used to be, but), because having your two heavy hitters be really long-animating powers in a game that's all about speed and efficiency seems counterproductive.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
I wouldn't.|
Originally Posted by macskull
I would take a damage reduction on ET if its activation time could be reduced to something like 1.5 or 1.67 seconds (still more than the 1 second it used to be, but), because having your two heavy hitters be really long-animating powers in a game that's all about speed and efficiency seems counterproductive.
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The damage on EM isn't all that already. The animation times don't bother me.
If I want something faster I play another set.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Energy is not an AoE based set and I wouldnt have it any other way. Energy is my second favorite attack set on tankers now, it used to be my favorite pre-i13 because of energy damage. SS being 2nd at the time and now first.
If anything its SS that needs changing, Rage buffs power permenantly and doesnt affect resist based sets like elec, fire or dark at all.
Energy is usually my PvP first choice, Build up > Energy transfer > Total Focus is great spike damage, and the best there is on tankers. SS however has the advantage in current pvp simply because it has a range attack and perma rage with knockout blow.
Energy has its own specialisation, which is good it makes it unique. Dont knock it until you have tried it to 50. You cant judge a powerset you have only seen in mids, which a lot of people seem to do.
Even in PvE, although it has its lack of AoEs, taunt and whirling hands is more than enough to hold agro combined with taunt aura. I know, I did it for 3 years on union lol and got team invites from people the second I logged on because I was in that much of a demand, it is in no way gimped like some people claim it to be and the -hp part of energy transfer is a minor annoyance yes, but since when does that much -hp bother a decent tanker with SO's or IO's? Never once have I died because of it.
The set is aimed at doing more damage to the Alpha targets such as AV's, EB's and bosses, not at taking down full mobs. Fire excels at that however you should try that.
Also if you did change it, it wouldnt just affect tankers, the same set is also on brutes and stalkers too (not sure about scrappers, never play them
I should mention I have played a few energy tankers to 50, in fact upon just checking now, I actually have all the possible combinations of energy to level 50 except for elec, which I havent tried yet since Ive moved to american servers.
The hardest hit by -hp was fire and dark, both heavily heal reliant. However this can be said about SS using rages -defence debuff with ice or shield. Its part of the set, you work around it however you can. Tankers can perform wonderful things with any build, if you know how to use them.
Ice is the most gimped set in tankers abilties by far. Even Dual blades despite needing most of the powers in the set could still deal damage with combos. Dark has its -tohit, fire has DoT and AoE heaven, axe and mace are both average sets at best but they have been buffed since i played them, stone melee is basically SS without rage but higher standard damage and slightly better control, and SS its heavy damage alround because of perma rage whilst energy has single target damage in bursts higher than any other.
Each attack set specialises in something, and as they are its only ice I think thats underperforming, everything else works great if used right. Frozen Aura is a laughable power in any level, the fact its tier 9 is just an insult.
In short: Energy is fine as it is. Any changes to it would be stupid and pointless and hurt the powerset rather than do it good.
If you want to change any tanker set, it should be SS with rage, it makes all the other sets pointless despite the fact without it, it is poor but who skips a perma +damage power that high?
It should not be able to be perma simple as, make a 10s or 20s gap after set bonuses to put it in line with other sets.
The fact that a lot of the population of tankers is SS or Elec tells you something.
I dont think ive seen anyone without a concept playing an /ice tanker high level since I began the game. Its just a poor set, the slows dont do enough to justify such terrible damage and a useless tier 9 power. Frozen Aura is the single worst power in game, it needs changing to a long recharge hold or something not a sleep to make the set worthwhile.