Limit on influence for market?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-03-21 13:57 in The Market and Inventions
When you list a recipe on the market you have to pay a 5% listing fee upfront, if it sells the 5% is returned but you then have to pay a 10% sale fee.
So at the moment you are limited to setting a sale price of 47million due to a lack of inf on hand.
If you list it at 47million then is will sell immediately and you will get whatever the current high bid is. This is likely to be about 150million but obviously that isn't guaranteed.
What sever are you on? If you're on Virtue blueside I'll give you some inf so you can list it at a fair price.
The other option is to try and sell it directly bypassing the market entirely.
When you post an item for sale 5% of the price is immediately taken from you in fees. This fee is often called the "List" fee.
5% of 47,000,000 is 2,350,000. That 2.3M is roughly how much Inf your character is holding.
*EDIT* To be more specific, the list fee is taken into account when the market takes the 10% Sale fee. So if you list an item for 45,000,000M you'd pay 2.25M in fees. If that item sells for 100,000,000 (100M) there is 10% or 10M in total market fees. You've already paid 2.25M, so the game takes away another 7.75M.
i always list items for 1-5 inf (only costs 5 inf) and whatever inf i make will be a profit since i did not have it before (many many times ive made upwards of 50 mil+ profit because im not wasting all my inf on hand in listing fees)
Duh! Ok, thanks. Those five semesters of calculus haven't helped my common sense very much. I completely forgot that the 5% came out on posting.
Oh well, I'll save up my money so I can sell it. (Ok, that sounds just wrong on so many levels.)
Thanks again.
Quote:
Necro, good idea. I'll try that.
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i always list items for 1-5 inf (only costs 5 inf) and whatever inf i make will be a profit since i did not have it before (many many times ive made upwards of 50 mil+ profit because im not wasting all my inf on hand in listing fees)
|
Quote:
*sigh* While the basic premise of listing at one inf so it sell immediately is not wrong, the second part of your statement is completely and utterly wrong.You are not saving ANY inf by listing for 1, you are simply shifting when you have to pay it.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i always list items for 1-5 inf (only costs 5 inf) and whatever inf i make will be a profit since i did not have it before (many many times ive made upwards of 50 mil+ profit because im not wasting all my inf on hand in listing fees)
|
When you list an item you pay 5% of the price as a listing fee. When you sell an item you have to pay 10% of the sale price as a sale fee. BUT the inf you already paid as the listing fee is subtracted from the sale fee.
For example, lets say I list a widget for 50million but it sells for 70million. I would pay a 2.5million listing fee (50mill * 5%). When it sells I would pay an additional 4.5million (70million * 10% - 2.5million), my total fees would be 7million. Now suppose I instead listed it at 1inf but it still sold for 70million. I would pay a 5inf listing fee and when it sold I would pay an additional 6999995 inf (70million * 10% - 5) and my total fees would still be 7million.
What Adeon said.
There's a couple of really ugly brute-force way to raise money at around 1 M per hour: buy level 35-50 unloved set IO's for 100 to 500 and sell them to a vendor for (100 per level), shuttling back and forth.
You can probably raise more faster by doing an AE mission, turning 400 tickets into 50 common salvage (probably midlevel tech but you can do that research for yourself) and selling that on the market at 1 inf each. Do that a couple times and you should be pretty well set up.
I don't recommend these methods for more than "making a couple million in a hurry". (5 million -> list at 100 million; you'd need 12.5 million to list at the top end.)
I could loan you a few million.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
im only paying 5 inf for market listing fee, the fee you get when it sells i dont consider myself paying it because i havent received money yet, as in the money is being deducted before it is even added to my inventory, therefore i dont count it as me paying it|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
*sigh* While the basic premise of listing at one inf so it sell immediately is not wrong, the second part of your statement is completely and utterly wrong.You are not saving ANY inf by listing for 1, you are simply shifting when you have to pay it.
When you list an item you pay 5% of the price as a listing fee. When you sell an item you have to pay 10% of the sale price as a sale fee. BUT the inf you already paid as the listing fee is subtracted from the sale fee. For example, lets say I list a widget for 50million but it sells for 70million. I would pay a 2.5million listing fee (50mill * 5%). When it sells I would pay an additional 4.5million (70million * 10% - 2.5million), my total fees would be 7million. Now suppose I instead listed it at 1inf but it still sold for 70million. I would pay a 5inf listing fee and when it sold I would pay an additional 6999995 inf (70million * 10% - 5) and my total fees would still be 7million. |
i list stuff for 1-5 inf because if the item only sells for 5 inf, then i still break even (if its like one of those common salvages)
if i list lets say a LOTG for 1 inf, i pay 5 inf for the listing fee, when it sells for lets day 100 mil inf, im still receiving about 90 mil inf, which i didnt have before, and if i listed it for 100 mil inf, i would have wasted an additional 5 mil inf, so my net gain would have been 85 mil, so for max profit i sell stuff for 1 inf (if i really cared about not losing 1-4 inf when a product sells i would list at 5 inf, but 1-4 is insignificant)
doing this also gets you the money ASAP (aka liquidation), but your inf that you get selling this way adds up fairly fast (especially if you get lucky drops)
Five semesters?!? What the heck do they teach in semester five, mind control?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
No. This is not how market fees work.
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
if i list lets say a LOTG for 1 inf, i pay 5 inf for the listing fee, when it sells for lets day 100 mil inf, im still receiving about 90 mil inf, which i didnt have before, and if i listed it for 100 mil inf, i would have wasted an additional 5 mil inf, so my net gain would have been 85 mil, so for max profit i sell stuff for 1 inf (if i really cared about not losing 1-4 inf when a product sells i would list at 5 inf, but 1-4 is insignificant)
|
Quote:
No, read my post again, I explained the math. Your net gain is 90million regardless of whether you list it for 1inf or 100million inf. Assuming an item sells, your total fees (as in listing fee + sales fees) are the same no matter what your listing price was, it's based purely on the sale price at that point. |
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
if i list lets say a LOTG for 1 inf, i pay 5 inf for the listing fee, when it sells for lets day 100 mil inf, im still receiving about 90 mil inf, which i didnt have before, and if i listed it for 100 mil inf, i would have wasted an additional 5 mil inf, so my net gain would have been 85 mil, so for max profit i sell stuff for 1 inf (if i really cared about not losing 1-4 inf when a product sells i would list at 5 inf, but 1-4 is insignificant)
|
Listing at a low price does 3 things:
1. Helps your item sell faster
2. Gets you a lower sales price
3. Means you don't have to worry about listing to high and losing money when you pull and relist
Quote:
i never have to worry about 3 because it always sells, 2 is only partially true, ive made more than the current last 5 sales listing for 1 inf|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
No, read my post again, I explained the math. Your net gain is 90million regardless of whether you list it for 1inf or 100million inf. Assuming an item sells, your total fees (as in listing fee + sales fees) are the same no matter what your listing price was, it's based purely on the sale price at that point.
Listing at a low price does 3 things: 1. Helps your item sell faster 2. Gets you a lower sales price 3. Means you don't have to worry about listing to high and losing money when you pull and relist |
my point was being not wasting inf in listing it for a high price if you are gonna lose the same amount regardless of what you list it, and again, when you sell something you dont get any money till you claim it, so to me im not paying anything on inf im receiving from a sale
Quote:
To be accurate, while it might be seen as paradoxical, in reality it isn't the seller who pays transaction fee but the buyer.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
When you list a recipe on the market you have to pay a 5% listing fee upfront, if it sells the 5% is returned but you then have to pay a 10% sale fee.
So at the moment you are limited to setting a sale price of 47million due to a lack of inf on hand. If you list it at 47million then is will sell immediately and you will get whatever the current high bid is. This is likely to be about 150million but obviously that isn't guaranteed. What sever are you on? If you're on Virtue blueside I'll give you some inf so you can list it at a fair price. The other option is to try and sell it directly bypassing the market entirely. |
You just need to keep in mind that the listing price has intrinsic 10% transaction fee.
It is irrelevant for the most of the players (with exception for flippers and crafters), because in most cases they don't have easily quantifiable cost of the item they trying to sell.
On another hand, flippers and crafters have an associated cost of the item ( item price flipper paid to buy the item and recipe_price + ingridient_prices + crafting_cost for the crafter) and they calculate minimum listing price (break even price) as item_cost/0.9
So when the seller lists their item for sale, they implicitly saying they want receive 90% of the listing price.
When the buyer is buying the item, the seller is getting refunded the listing fee, and gets 90% of transaction price.
For example:
The seller lists the item for 10M (implicitly saying they want receive 9M) and pays 500K listing fee.
The buyer buys the item for 10M, the seller gets 9.5M ( 9M they wanted to get + 500K listing fee refund ), 1M from the buyer covers the transaction fee.
Quote:
Actually, if you look at the system reports it give you all of the inf fromt he sale and then subtracts the sale fee so technically the seller is paying the fee.
|
Originally Posted by NordBlast
To be accurate, while it might be seen as paradoxical, in reality it isn't the seller who pays transaction fee but the buyer.
|
Quote:
It doesn't matter what system reports and who gets that report as long as you understand that listing price includes 10% transaction fee. It is objective and there is no way around it. And BTW, the seller pays nothing except listing fee, that is refunded after transaction completed. Everything else is paid by the buyer.
|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Actually, if you look at the system reports it give you all of the inf fromt he sale and then subtracts the sale fee so technically the seller is paying the fee.
|
Quote:
Almost. Partial differential equations just for aerospace engineers and meteorologists that are masochists. The best lecture in the class was the one where he explained that Americans are fat and get too many divorces because we don't eat enough fruits and vegetables.
|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Five semesters?!? What the heck do they teach in semester five, mind control?
|
Quote:
Just pointing out that, no, you don't break even. There's a minimum of 5 infl to list it, and another 5 infl once you sell it. To break even, you have to sell it for 10 infl.
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i list stuff for 1-5 inf because if the item only sells for 5 inf, then i still break even (if its like one of those common salvages)
|
Global @StarGeek
ParagonWiki.com-The original is still the best!
My Hero Merit rolls
Accuracy needed for 95% ToHit spreadsheet
Forum font change stripper for Firefox/Opera/Chrome. No more dealing with poor color choices, weird fonts or microscopic text
Search Wiki Patch notes, add site:ParagonWiki.com inurl:patch_notes to your Google Search
Quote:
It also does a 4th thing. It adds the risk that you might sell at an unacceptably low price. I used to count on that. I would find a valuable item that happened to have zero bids at a particular level and put in a stack of bids for a few thousand influence so it LOOKED like there was high demand - a bunch of open bids and the last five sales were in the millions. I would regularly get pieces from the Miracle or LotG set for a few thousand influence.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Listing at a low price does 3 things:
1. Helps your item sell faster 2. Gets you a lower sales price 3. Means you don't have to worry about listing to high and losing money when you pull and relist |
Anyone posting items for 1 infl needs to be aware of that risk.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I feel like I ought to post something but I just don't know what to say. If someone came here and asked how the fees worked, I'd be happy to explain it. But when people loudly proclaim how the fees work, and they're wrong, I'm just speechless.
There are no secrets where the fee is concerned. It's not as simple and straightforward as it could be, but it's not a secret. If you're not sure how the fees work (or even if you are sure, but you're still wrong) then all you have to do is pay attention to the numbers that display on your screen and do a little math. It should become apparent.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Quote:
I heard that they are raising the fee to 13.5% so Back Alley Brawler can now pay for the health care for his servants at his island retreat...
|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
*sigh* While the basic premise of listing at one inf so it sell immediately is not wrong, the second part of your statement is completely and utterly wrong.You are not saving ANY inf by listing for 1, you are simply shifting when you have to pay it.
When you list an item you pay 5% of the price as a listing fee. When you sell an item you have to pay 10% of the sale price as a sale fee. BUT the inf you already paid as the listing fee is subtracted from the sale fee. For example, lets say I list a widget for 50million but it sells for 70million. I would pay a 2.5million listing fee (50mill * 5%). When it sells I would pay an additional 4.5million (70million * 10% - 2.5million), my total fees would be 7million. Now suppose I instead listed it at 1inf but it still sold for 70million. I would pay a 5inf listing fee and when it sold I would pay an additional 6999995 inf (70million * 10% - 5) and my total fees would still be 7million. |
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
Quote:
So, the guy last year who listed a LotG +Recharge for 1, and sold it for 1,111 paid the same fees, and earned the same amount of profit as someone else listing it at 100,000,000 or more and selling within 24 hours, right?
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i never have to worry about 3 because it always sells, 2 is only partially true, ive made more than the current last 5 sales listing for 1 inf
my point was being not wasting inf in listing it for a high price if you are gonna lose the same amount regardless of what you list it, and again, when you sell something you dont get any money till you claim it, so to me im not paying anything on inf im receiving from a sale |
@Roderick
Quote:
Me either.|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
I feel like I ought to post something but I just don't know what to say.
|
And not just the inaccuracy of the info, but that it's all just being considered "our opinion" when we tell them how it works.
An aside:
I have a rule for myself. If there are no bids, always bid one first. I've picked up half a set of posi's doing that. Yes, you posting at 1 is a good thing. It saves lots of money...not yours though.
Ok, I'm relatively new to the market. I have a lvl 36 toon and have sold a few salvage things and bought a few things. No problems up until now.
Right now, I'm trying to sell a recipe. The problem is that the history shows the recipe is going for 150,000,000 to 250,000,000 (150 to 250 million) over the last few days.
However, when I try to enter the price, it won't let me enter more than 47,000,000 (47 million). If I enter more than the 47 million, the post button grays out and won't come back until I lower the number.
Any ideas?
I checked other threads and I'm nowhere near the 2 billion cap. I only have 2 million right now. (Needless to say, I could really use the extra influence to upgrade my toon.)
Here is what I'm trying to sell (not that it should make a difference)
Lvl 50 - Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy +DMG, +ACC, +Rech UNIQUE -- No more than 1 enhancement of this type may be slotted by a character. Enhances the damage of a power by 26.5%, the accuracy by 26.5% and reduces recharge time by 26.5%
Thanks