Non-Tanker toons that can actually hold aggro and taunt like a tank
By
Ben_Arizona,
Posted on: 2010-03-13 09:15 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Well, "ability to herd" does not necessarily equate to "ability to HOLD aggro." A Mastermind can be VERY good at herding, as several videos I have seen can testify to. As long as no one else fires, any amount of aggro is good enough. So then it comes down to being able to take the damage. |
Originally Posted by Siolfir
Isn't it amazing how quickly this turned into an argument on semantics when the exact criteria listed for what "Tanking" meant in regards to the thread is listed in the OP? Essentially it means, "ability to herd".
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I can see that the OP had a specific tactic in mind, but that doesn't mean the discussion can't turn to more general issues in regards to tanking.
My Rad/DP defender tanks really well and from a distance. I just use my Rad (debuff) toggles on a target in a group... I then hide around a corner. They all herd up in a tight group and are debuffed. Choking cloud (with a Lockdown proc) holds most of them. Solo I can handle two groups set for 3 to 5 people. When tanking for a group I can handle the taunt max at max lvl. Cryo ammo helps to slow them and EM pulse for when I'm in over my head.
One of the best toons I've ever made. Solo'd Posi with no deaths. His damage is low (he's a defender of course), but I pop red insps and I use AM which gives +dam.
Check out this!!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/LastRoninCoH/featured
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This is why I said throw in Confront. Taunt/Confront usage have been the only times I've seen aggro on a AV reliably held.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
Versus archvillain/hero class enemies, not even a tanker can rely on a taunt/damage aura. The taunt effects on an aura are not autohit; they have to make a to hit check at a -20% penalty to affect an AV.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
The best alternate tankers ive played are:
fire/stone brute (which is great with agro holding because of fire AoEs as well as taunt and stone armor is good to tank with if you know how to use it)
Fire/SR scrapper with pool power taunts (not as effective as brute above because the taunt still needs accuracy on it, but it still works and its sometimes tempremental as with all defence sets theres a buttload of -defence mobs out there)
Finally, I actually have a tanking widow, i was suprised how well this turned out tbh but it works in the same way as the scrapper, you need to pool taunts to have any attempt of agro, and mix it with aoe attacks, again its defence based though so its tempremental.
Ive been playing tanks for 3 years and rarely venture away from them but these are the ones ive tried and worked best.
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Pulling agro off a badly played stone brute isnt hard, if they use perma granite then there attacks are slowed meaning they get less agro, and lack of aoes is also common.|
Originally Posted by Negate
I still say nothing can out Aggro a Dom...well except for s Spines.Fire scrapper. My Fire/Thorns Dom has made baddie so angry that I can even pull baddies off of a Stone Brute O_o. If only Doms could take the Dmg though.
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Theres a lot of brutes that want to tank, but many of them actually dont bother to learn what tanking is and go damage instead and mindlessly run from one mob to next to keep fury. Whilst fury is good, its not a nessessary thing for efficient tanking (i know arguements will say more damage - more agro lol but a mindless attacking brute doesnt wait for health to recover before charging on, much like scrapperlock)
A lot of charecters can tank, it just depends how there played and how there set out. As i mentioned above, ive played tanks for over 3 years on EU account, and Fire is by far the best attack set for agro management on melee toons because of the AoEs plus each fire DoT effect adds more agro. Armor sets just depends on whatever you can get the highest stats with usually, unless its stone or dark, stone has slowed effect from granite you need to learn to counter and dark is stupidly endurence heavy without efficient slotting.
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Pred I've only seen...I would say less than 7 good brutes/tanker tank very well...One guy was so good that he pulled over the aggro cap but somehow managed to keep them clustered around him...often times I was in complete awe of his tanking ability.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Pulling agro off a badly played stone brute isnt hard, if they use perma granite then there attacks are slowed meaning they get less agro, and lack of aoes is also common.
Theres a lot of brutes that want to tank, but many of them actually dont bother to learn what tanking is and go damage instead and mindlessly run from one mob to next to keep fury. Whilst fury is good, its not a nessessary thing for efficient tanking (i know arguements will say more damage - more agro lol but a mindless attacking brute doesnt wait for health to recover before charging on, much like scrapperlock) A lot of charecters can tank, it just depends how there played and how there set out. As i mentioned above, ive played tanks for over 3 years on EU account, and Fire is by far the best attack set for agro management on melee toons because of the AoEs plus each fire DoT effect adds more agro. Armor sets just depends on whatever you can get the highest stats with usually, unless its stone or dark, stone has slowed effect from granite you need to learn to counter and dark is stupidly endurence heavy without efficient slotting. |
to many times have I seen a tank or brute try to pull more than he can handle and end up endangering the team and himself...but this guy..whew! I wish I could remember his power pics...I think it was Invul/ something lol.
tanking without being a tank.....hmmmmm
melee MM, using provoke/taunt in bodyguard mode. Thats a tank now. (its just missing the taunt aura, those sneaky devs lol)
Preferred melee MM to benefit from BG mode the most. BG mode is what does it. It is just much more versatile than run in and catch aggro but can work the same. My storm mm can move in stealthed and thunder clap/disorient the mins, while i provoke bosses and lts. Once i choose my taunt target, the lts and bosses focus on me, and my pets focus on them. Everything else is disoriented. You got to know how to taunt right to do it, and where to taunt and move to. 100% same as tanking.
You can send any combination of pets in and pull them/heel them back to corner/pull the spawn to where you want it. My old SG and i used to do it just like tanking (using a tanker) of old (like pre-i6) days. we could literally fight in one place, and send pets out to pull the next spawn to us. Problem was, most of the players didn't get it. The brutes loved it once they got used to it, it was just hard to get them used to it. the brutes always wanted to go running around for fury lol.
You got to build the mm right to do it. It takes some work with commands, and naming the pets right for bgmode (took forever to figure naming/commands/bgmode), but the similarities to tanking are uncanny. Loads of fun once you get it down.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
They can do it just fine if they're /Invuln or /SD (which do have a decent taunt aura), but damage auras from Fire, Dark and Elec actually trigger mob grief AI and they start running the heck away, arms flailing. It's especially bad if combined with Quills.
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Silver is so right! I have a spines fire and I actually use him for AE missions which is not bad until the end when they are constantly scattering. If anyone has an idea on how to stop this please let me know.
My stone/stone brute is an excellent tank. Holds aggro real well and is capped on def and has very high res to boot. He is certainly the most tankerish brute I have played.
Ok, there's the criteria:
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The first part of this is simple: Any toon with an aggroing AOE, good defenses, and a handy corner. | Pulling large amounts of toons, to one tight location, and then hold them there so the Area of Effects can unless heck. And live to see another day against the toughest mobs? |
Period.
The tricky part comes in KEEPING aggro.
In my experience, a claws/inv scrapper or a claws/inv brute is nearly ideal. Taunt aura, huge defenses, huge hitpoints, good mobility for cornering, and a ranged attack to draw in wanderers.
Spines/inv is right there too.
However, in the current game, with a strong team, 'tanking' is really more about 'super heavy scouting.' If I'm on a good team, I generally try to play 'a spawn ahead.'
I run forward, engage with taunt aura/damage aura/AOE, move to corner, hit a few bosses.
The first attack from somebody else that hits the spawn is my signal to move along, my job is done, now it's the squishies problem.
Any toon that is beefy enough to aggressively play forward a spawn (or two if there's somebody who knows how to offtank) can 'tank' well enough.
My invul and shield scrappers routinely steal aggro from many tanks... just not invul or shield tanks. ^_^
These days, tanking mostly means taking the alpha strike just before every enemy is obliterated -- which a lot of people can do -- or it means being able to keep an AV's attention and not die while everyone beats him down -- which not as many people can do, but it's certainly not limited to tanks and brutes.
The times when you need to hold aggro on a lot of enemies for more than a few seconds are few and far between, and if you run into them you're probably fighting +4 enemies and then you might really need a good tank or brute. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Is it just me or is this thread about one year old?
I'm not really good with the way the time/date/whatever is written, but this thread is reeking of undead blasphemy.
I still say nothing can out Aggro a Dom...well except for s Spines.Fire scrapper. My Fire/Thorns Dom has made baddie so angry that I can even pull baddies off of a Stone Brute O_o. If only Doms could take the Dmg though.