Program? Generated attack chain? Why, back in my day, we made attack chains the hard way. We used paper, math, calculators all mixed together with a bit of insanity. Youth these days, so spoiled!
*furiously waves cane in the air*
Get off my lawn!
(Sorry, sounds vaguely familiar, but I honestly don't have a link for you. I seem to remember it being made for Doms, though.)
Pfffft, what need have you for an attack chain? Get some decent recharge and just mash the best attack you have up for the situation you are in that moment. Duh.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I just auto-follow Voo and spam heals (with the occassional veng/rez thrown in). 
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I do the same... without the heals or rez.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
I just auto-follow Voo and spam heals (with the occassional veng/rez thrown in).
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Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
I work with you two, don't I.
I've already forgotten about most of you
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That's kind of what I do. By the time I get IOs slotted I have tons of recharge and loads of attacks.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Pfffft, what need have you for an attack chain? Get some decent recharge and just mash the best attack you have up for the situation you are in that moment. Duh.
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I'm slotting out my Stalker right now, and I figured out if I add a LOTG 7.5% global recharge, it will give me an extra 0.8 seconds on my Build Up. Is this worth 120 million?
(But I get an extra 13.7 seconds on Overload!)
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
We use this for min/maxing all around, getting exactly what you need so you can squeeze the most out of everything.
Def - .8 seconds likely won't matter to someone like yourself who just runs with whatever works. The recharge on your higher tier powers is more worth getting, however.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
I know most of them just have fun doing it, but I am sometimes amazed at the need to find "the best attack chain" on the Scrapper forums. I guess you can feel l33t about the DPS you can put out, but I get a lot more mileage out of just having fun and not locked into some uber attack chain.
There is some thought needed to when to apply what attack and what debuff in CoX, but thankfully there is no need to completely min/max. That's one of the things I like about the game, so I always feel a little bemused when people strive to do that with their characters.
To each their own, of course.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I don't think you guys really understand ... Maybe it's just a powergamer thing, but It's not simply about being uber, (Well I guess in the long run, it is) it's about knowing what powers do the most damage in the time it takes to activate, which helps you choose what attacks to take or not to take.
Example: My most expensive toon is Frosty Nibblets, a fire/fire Blaster. 5 purple sets, 3 Lotgs, and lots of other goodies give him 115% recharge before hasten. Though he's a walking mob melter, I still want to know how to do the most single target damage that I can. Against AVs, do I include burn in my attack chain? Since Flares has a higher DPA than Fire blast, do I actually TAKE flares over it? What attacks should I use for an aoe attack chain? Should I break down and get Breath of fire? How bad is combustion, really?
These are important questions to me, ones that I can't seem to find answers for unless I could finally get herostats to work and do some major number crunching myself on test with different builds. And I'm just not that good at number crunching.
Sure I have fun just playing the game, that's why I don't just PL every character that I have to 50. I enjoy playing my less powerful characters like my dark/rad because they're just fun to play. But when it comes time to be awesome, I'm not ashamed to say that I will go all out to make my power toons as good as they can be.
Also it helps your time on speed runs >.>
Dusty Trophies
Well, I know I can't help you I just find what works for me.
I know you may get a bit more varied responses, but did you want to take this to the Player's Questions section or a specific AT section? It would broaden the chance of someone knowing the program you are looking for.
Also, for me at least, what is your specific goal? It sounded like soloing an AV with a fire blaster. But are you looking at other powersets/ATs/mobs? As you know, this will impact which attack chain you are looking for.
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I'm sure you know about DPA, the stat basically measuring what you're talking about (especially since you use it later), just make sure you factor in 'ArcanaTime' when doing so. In short:|
Originally Posted by _Ryxx_
I don't think you guys really understand ... Maybe it's just a powergamer thing, but It's not simply about being uber, (Well I guess in the long run, it is) it's about knowing what powers do the most damage in the time it takes to activate, which helps you choose what attacks to take or not to take.
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FinalCastTime = (ROUNDUP(CastTime / 0.132) + 1) * 0.132
So, a power with a cast time of 1:
FinalCastTime = (ROUNDUP(1 / 0.132) + 1) * 0.132
FinalCastTime = (ROUNDUP(7.5757..) + 1) * 0.132
FinalCastTime = (8 + 1) * 0.132
FinalCastTime = 9 * 0.132
FinalCastTime = 1.188
Also note that additional fire dots (like those found on Fire Blast) aren't calculated right in MIDs, last time I checked. They are not an 80% chance to apply the ful dot. It's an 80% chance per tick. There was a formula for that, but I don't have that with me at work. I'll try to remember to post it here later, if you'd like.
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Originally Posted by _Ryxx_
Example: My most expensive toon is Frosty Nibblets, a fire/fire Blaster. 5 purple sets, 3 Lotgs, and lots of other goodies give him 115% recharge before hasten. Though he's a walking mob melter, I still want to know how to do the most single target damage that I can. Against AVs, do I include burn in my attack chain? Since Flares has a higher DPA than Fire blast, do I actually TAKE flares over it? What attacks should I use for an aoe attack chain? Should I break down and get Breath of fire? How bad is combustion, really?
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If you want a sigle target attack chain, your best bet would be asking on the Scrapper forum. They're the best at churning out those things. (I know the mechanics behind their calculations, but I'm not as good at just making chains. I tend to use floating chains as well, since I play characters that have to interrupt chains a lot (Tankers/Defenders/etc).) If you do post there, however, make it clear in the subject it's for a blaster, and prepare to have your build disected. Not saying it's bad, but they will try to tweak it (especially if said tweaks would net you a better chain).
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Originally Posted by _Ryxx_
Also it helps your time on speed runs >.>
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That's not QUITE how I work. I actually do try to max out as much recharge as I can, but do so as efficiently as I can. I think a lot of people (those not in this discussion) don't realize how the recharge formulas work. They see "I have 200% recharge," or whatever, and don't fully understand what that means. The laws of diminishing returns factor into recharge and END reduction, big time, so one has to balance the cost of adding even more recharge (cost in INF and slotting choices) versus the overall gain (and versus what you sacrifice by making these choices -- maybe better +regen or +recovery are better choices).|
Originally Posted by Elegost
We use this for min/maxing all around, getting exactly what you need so you can squeeze the most out of everything.
Def - .8 seconds likely won't matter to someone like yourself who just runs with whatever works. The recharge on your higher tier powers is more worth getting, however. |
In my stalker examples, adding that extra 7.5 global gets me 0.2 seconds on my high end attack powers, all of which now already recharge before I can rehide. And I checked red side pricing last night...200 - 250 million...or 200 merits. I might be better served trying to save up to get Hecatomb for my AS. (Surprisingly, this was my least expensive character to outfit in 50 IOs so far. Only 120 million to get and build what I needed.) Just playing around last night for the first time since finishing the build, the character was shockingly, disgustingly overpowered compared to where I was pre-level 47. Does spending 200 milllion to gain 13.7 seconds on a power that normally takes 1000 seconds to recharge seem like a fair trade? Maybe. We'll see.
And as one last note: I do have a character where making that financial sacrifice to get that 7.5% global WAS a fair trade. So I'm not totally against Luck of the Gambler -- I just think the price on them is too high for what you get.
Anyway, sorry for the threadjack.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
Ryxx, I can see why you do it, and I know why some of the number crunchers do it. They enjoy it. Whereas I like planning out my build and working to get it, but not to an absolute min/max extent. It's just personal preference.
I was more noting that I can find it humorous how much people sweat over the min/max stuff when they don't really need to. And that really is only a bad thing when they try to make other people sweat it as well. Let them find their own thing to enjoy, I would say.
The bar to success in CoX isn't set TOO high, so it's nice that it allows so many different playstyles and approaches. It's one of the game's many strengths. So don't feel like I was shooting down what you find fun, I just find the "min/max to the EXTREME!" crowd somewhat amusing. I don't think you're one of them, either. There's a difference between getting to the screaming edge with a build, and thinking that everyone else must be built the same say.
I saw an article on Gamespy once, detailing their experience with some new WoW content. Someone on their raid team checked out their gear and noted they didn't have the best stuff, implying they weren't going to pull their weight. That's the kind of attitude I loath, and I don't really think anyone I play with regularly here on Victory is like that. Most of us play quite well, but we're still fairly relaxed about it all. Which is the way to go, in my book!
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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I cannot quote this enough. |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I was more noting that I can find it humorous how much people sweat over the min/max stuff when they don't really need to. And that really is only a bad thing when they try to make other people sweat it as well. Let them find their own thing to enjoy, I would say.
The bar to success in CoX isn't set TOO high, so it's nice that it allows so many different playstyles and approaches. It's one of the game's many strengths. So don't feel like I was shooting down what you find fun, I just find the "min/max to the EXTREME!" crowd somewhat amusing. I don't think you're one of them, either. There's a difference between getting to the screaming edge with a build, and thinking that everyone else must be built the same way. |
I don't think I ever push my ways on other people; HOWEVER, if someone wants in on our uber speed runs, they'd better be ready to perform. It's not always necessarily about IOs either, on our fastest STF runs, my toon's only IO was a Numina Unique. Being uber is more a mindset of being intense.
But I'm usually chill
I enjoy solving Rubik's cubes and playing minesweeper. My default gaming posture is something like this. 
Mostly I just want the program to help my decisions on burn and flares, but I'm sure I'd fund other times to use it.
Dusty Trophies
Dang, if I sat like that for even five seconds (if I could contort that much), I think I'd permanently throw my back out. I played defensive and offensive line during my short stint with high school football, so that is a good indication of why I couldn't handle it, heh.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
That room doesn't actually exist anymore. Neither does that hair. Just sayin
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
I ran through this today during English, because we're "learning" how to use APA citations, which, quite frankly, isn't much to learn about in an hour.
This coming from my fire/shield tank with 75% rech bonuses (ex hasten).
(also, excluding arcanatime, didn't have the equation with me)
(Sarrate can destroy my math if he so chooses, I could be wrong. I don't do this often.)
As a numerical base, I could throw down the chain:
(greater fire sword, incinerate, fire sword, scorch)
GFS>INC>FS>SCO
This chain could be run flawlessly while hasten was up (92% of the time). yielding about 97dps (excluding procs)
This chain cycles every 7 1/3 seconds, so it's pretty quick to restart, and a BU starting the chain will last all the way through the next GFS, which is nice. That's fine and all, but I'm sure I could get more out of the set.
So instead, I came up with this rather lengthy chain (trying to get more out of incinerate, the highest dps power in the set):
INC>GFS>FS>INC>SCO>FS>GFS>SCO>FS>(repeat) (BU, for reference, would last through the second FS)
This chain runs right at 15 seconds, and pushes about 104dps. Definitely better.
Keep in mind, however, that this is only considering solo play. If I have any outside recharge buffs I'll need to figure out a better chain to get the most out of set.
The point of all this nonsense that most people don't care about is getting the most out of what you have. Sure it's fine to run the first chain, but if we're doing something that's "Balls out" as Coz says, everything may as well be accounted for.
Yes, most people don't care. Most people don't need to care. It is that care, however, that pushes us over the edge into the land of awesomeness.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
It's "nut up" these days.
@cozmic
Kid Kozmic - lvl 50 Ill/Emp Controller
Agent Chance - lvl 50 Traps/DP Defender
Venatores - lvl 50 Broadsword/Shield Scrapper
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Strangely, I find that worse than the other phrase, even though they're referencing the same concept. Heh.
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Originally Posted by cozmic
It's "nut up" these days.
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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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1) That sounds extremely low. Is that with or without counting +dmg (enhancements, AAO, etc)? I ask because last time I checked, I could pump out ~90 dps on Preacher (assuming I'm not spending time Taunting). I would think you would be in the 150-200 dps range.|
Originally Posted by Elegost
As a numerical base, I could throw down the chain:
(greater fire sword, incinerate, fire sword, scorch) GFS>INC>FS>SCO This chain could be run flawlessly while hasten was up (92% of the time). yielding about 97dps (excluding procs) This chain cycles every 7 1/3 seconds, so it's pretty quick to restart, and a BU starting the chain will last all the way through the next GFS, which is nice. That's fine and all, but I'm sure I could get more out of the set. |
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Originally Posted by Elegost
(Sarrate can destroy my math if he so chooses, I could be wrong. I don't do this often.)
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Code:
Cast AT Base Dmg** GFS 2.33 2.508 176.2828928 Inc 1.67 1.848 156.4 FS 1.33 1.584 97.363616 Sco 1.00 1.188 71.33 TOTAL 7.128 501.3765088
DPS Enhanced + AAO (1 targ): 150.789266377
DPS Enhanced + AAO + BU (30s rech): 174.2356051730
** Fire Melee's extra dot isn't just an 80% chance to apply the whole thing, but an 80% to continue. So each dot (except Incin and Scorch) could have anywhere between 0-4/5 ticks. So the formula I used (taken from the boards, don't have a link atm) is:
Code:
H = % chance to proc (ie: 0.8) N = Number of ticks ((1 - H ^ (N+1)) / (1 - H)) - 1
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Originally Posted by Elegost
(...)but I'm sure I could get more out of the set.
INC>GFS>FS>INC>SCO>FS>GFS>SCO>FS>(repeat) (BU, for reference, would last through the second FS) This chain runs right at 15 seconds, and pushes about 104dps. Definitely better. Keep in mind, however, that this is only considering solo play. If I have any outside recharge buffs I'll need to figure out a better chain to get the most out of set. |
(You should have the recharge for it.)
Silly Sarrate, Fiery Melee for Tankers gets Combustion instead of Cremate. I personally prefer having more AOE goodness, but Cremate does look nice for Scrappers and Brutes. I'd take it over Fire Breath any day.
I'd be curious to know what a good chain is for Fiery Melee as well, though I'm usually on a team with Grey Pilgrim now, or soloing against a lot of mobs where I concentrate on AOE more than ST anyway.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Wait, wut?|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Silly Sarrate, Fiery Melee for Tankers gets Combustion instead of Cremate.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Elegost
This coming from my fire/shield tank with 75% rech bonuses (ex hasten).
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and to think I read over this damn thing like 4 times looking for typos and junk. Totally missed that one >.< I build fire/shield scrappers in my spare time, just for lulz. It never even occured to me.
Basically, I took the damage value mids gave for each attack (I believe AAO was on, but only with 1 target), so it would include that and slotting only (yes, mids is set to ignore extra damage as well, no procs factored in.)
I took those values and added them, then divided by the total time it took the chain to loop.
And yeah, this dps is without miss chance, crit chance, proc chance, all that. Just for simplicity, so you're correct, it should be higher.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
I once was linked (I think in someone's sig) to a pseudo-program that let you enter your powerset, choose your powers, enter recharge, and it would spit back out your optimal attack chains. Does anyone know where I might have found this?
Dusty Trophies