PvE I'd say:
1) Shield Defense: Can be Def-capped quite easily and a very cool +Dam Aura AND an awesome AoE.
2) Regen: Not that resilient but COMFORTABLE. No End worries, many shiny buttons.
3) ??? No idea. Many will advocate Invuln. Others WP. Some Super Reflexes. While 1 and 2 leave little room for discussion the third place is a lot more difficult to determine.
PvP I got no idea. Probably something Def-based.
I don't know if this is PvE top three for anyone else, but I love /wp.
I think the hot one in PvP is regen and I think the hot one in PvE is Shield.
I honesltly think that the rest are pretty evenly distributed with SR probably at the bottom.
Hard to say though cause "popular" is tough to define. For example, I played one toon exclusivly(95%) for years, now I haven't pulled that toon out in months. once people acheive something, the toon gets little use afterwards.
/regen for PvP. I wouldn't consider it the best for PvE. My list depends on how much you are willing to spend on it. /wp and /sr are great cheap sets to make awesome. If you are willing to dump influ into them, things like /shield and /dark start to stand out.
Thanks guys. This is pretty much what I suspected but I wanted to ask and get opinions. I pretty much figured Regen for the top for PvP but I was curious what else might be considered good for PvP. For PvE I figured shields and Super Reflexes then Regen.
Anyone else care to chip in?
The secondaries are well balanced in PvE (I'll let others answer PvP questions). They differ much more in flavor than they do in power, though Shield Defense is flavor of the month due to what it can achieve when IO'd out. It's nothing special while leveling up, though.
Answering your question on Regen specifically, no, I wouldn't call it best in PvE. But having Quick Recovery from level 4 makes for easy leveling, it's a good solo set, and it's probably the most interactive set, requiring the most focus and micromanagement. For some, the click happy nature of it is a drawback. For others, it just makes things more interesting.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
PvP, don't know... I hear regen, and would assume Fire is good for the same reason (self heal).
PvE... I've been playing a lot of mid level scrappers lately. I find all secondaries do well, with spikes of notable improvment after earning key powers (electric is great after energize, invul is great after invincibility, etc...) Once IO'd out, it kind of depends on your specific goals, but in my opinion, for my playstyle:
1. Shields, 2. SR, 3. tie between Willpower and Invulnerability.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
PVE: Shield, WP, Regen and SR (tie)
PvP: Regen, Fire, and Electric
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Leveling up:
1)Willpower/Regen
2)Invulnerability
3)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura
4)Dark Armor
5)SD/SR
Late/End Game - low level enh (so's or mild io's)
1)Willpower/SR/Inv
2)Dark Armor/Regen
3)SD
4)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura
End Game - Pimped Out
1)SD
2)Willpower/Inv
3)Dark Armor/Regen
4)SR
5)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura
Just my opinions, don't flip out if you don't agree, lol. *Note - I have not played electric armor on a scrapper, and haven't used it since the heal was added, just going by the numbers and seeing it in use by others on that set, so I could be off on that one.
I'm trying my first /regen and I have to say, I don't get the hype. I die far more than I have on my prior scraps, especially for late game (meaning 40+). Compared to most of you, I have a more "advanced age" and since regen seems to be about hitting a heal in the nick of time, I think I may simply have a slower reaction time. Regardless, my regen dies a lot. 80% of the time it seems to be while I click Spine Burst and have to wait for a) the attack activation and b) the heal firing off.
On the other hand, my other current scrap (/SD) is at the same level (mid 40s) and he's just a hoot. This is even pre-IOing out.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Spine burst got me killed on my spiney/regen more than any other power in any other combination.
So much so that I deleted him. It doesn't work out the same for most other primaries.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
I am actually just the opposite. I die less frequently with Regen than the other types and I tried all the secondaries at least once with the exception of Dark Armor since I don't like having all those endurance sucking toggles. Fire seemed a bit squishy for me. I died about as much as you do with Regen. I did not like the PB/AD from Super Reflexes and Shield (although I think what it gives is fantastic) and Invulnerability kept feeling like I was missing something. Personally I don't like micromanaging but I don't feel like there are many things I need to click in Regen. I guess I am used more going on for what I consider to be micromanaging.
|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
I'm trying my first /regen and I have to say, I don't get the hype. I die far more than I have on my prior scraps, especially for late game (meaning 40+).
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
I'm trying my first /regen and I have to say, I don't get the hype. I die far more than I have on my prior scraps, especially for late game (meaning 40+). Compared to most of you, I have a more "advanced age" and since regen seems to be about hitting a heal in the nick of time, I think I may simply have a slower reaction time. Regardless, my regen dies a lot. 80% of the time it seems to be while I click Spine Burst and have to wait for a) the attack activation and b) the heal firing off.
On the other hand, my other current scrap (/SD) is at the same level (mid 40s) and he's just a hoot. This is even pre-IOing out. |
Since regen requires lots of clicking and timing, it definitely takes reflexes and more skill than a set that you just turn toggles on for. But a big part of your comparison problem is spines, which generates lots of aggro and has really long animations.
Quote:
I'd have to agree with just about everything here.
|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Leveling up:
1)Willpower/Regen 2)Invulnerability 3)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura 4)Dark Armor 5)SD/SR Late/End Game - low level enh (so's or mild io's) 1)Willpower/SR/Inv 2)Dark Armor/Regen 3)SD 4)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura End Game - Pimped Out 1)SD 2)Willpower/Inv 3)Dark Armor/Regen 4)SR 5)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura Just my opinions, don't flip out if you don't agree, lol. *Note - I have not played electric armor on a scrapper, and haven't used it since the heal was added, just going by the numbers and seeing it in use by others on that set, so I could be off on that one. |
Quote:
I think you might be right. I'm currently playing a mid level Ninja/Regen Stalker that is SO much easier to play than my Spines scrap. So much that I do have moments where I think "maybe it's not Regen that's my problem".
|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Since regen requires lots of clicking and timing, it definitely takes reflexes and more skill than a set that you just turn toggles on for. But a big part of your comparison problem is spines, which generates lots of aggro and has really long animations.
|
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
I'd put SR higher than WP late game... it's as survivable on less inf as SD. Early game it's no contest, regen would be number one as far as I'm concerned with the defense sets struggling. WP is weaker in the low levels since one of the biggest problems is endurance and regen gets QR at 4 while WP waits until 20.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Leveling up:
1)Willpower/Regen 2)Invulnerability 3)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura 4)Dark Armor 5)SD/SR Late/End Game - low level enh (so's or mild io's) 1)Willpower/SR/Inv 2)Dark Armor/Regen 3)SD 4)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura End Game - Pimped Out 1)SD 2)Willpower/Inv 3)Dark Armor/Regen 4)SR 5)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura Just my opinions, don't flip out if you don't agree, lol. *Note - I have not played electric armor on a scrapper, and haven't used it since the heal was added, just going by the numbers and seeing it in use by others on that set, so I could be off on that one. |
Once you manage to get a defense set above roughly 25% def it really starts to shine, but before that it's fairly weak.
My only experience with WP is with a Fire/WP brute I took to 50 but it struck me as being fairly squishy even with moderate IO bonuses. Admittedly I didn't have a real pimped out build for it due to finances redside and IO availability but it was a decent mid-range IO build. It felt squishier than my 2 regen scrappers (both 50, one BS/Reg, the other Spine/Reg) to say nothing of my BS/SD scrapper.
So... if I were rolling a new scrapper I'd have to decide what I intended. If I wanted to try a primary I hadn't played and didn't know if I'd take it the distance? Regen is my top choice since it's strongest early. If I'm looking for a late game powerhouse then Shield is the top choice. Invuln would be a good choice in the mid-game, particularly with moderate IO bonuses added in. Frankly WP wouldn't likely make the cut with me... having taken that Fire/WP brute to 50 it just didn't show me any real reason to take it over other choices. Of course YMMV but that's the feeling I got from the set.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
1) Dark armor with a dark blue/dark red color
2) Dark armor with a teal/sea blue color
3) Dark armor with a yellow/pink color
Dark armor lover.
The Claws/DA Scrapper guide.
Quote:
Wow Cyber ! Very nice assessment. Especially the levelling up section.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Leveling up:
1)Willpower/Regen 2)Invulnerability 3)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura 4)Dark Armor 5)SD/SR Late/End Game - low level enh (so's or mild io's) 1)Willpower/SR/Inv 2)Dark Armor/Regen 3)SD 4)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura End Game - Pimped Out 1)SD 2)Willpower/Inv 3)Dark Armor/Regen 4)SR 5)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura |
I would point out that your choice of primaries carries some weight with it as well.
For example, SD/SR definitely will be in the basement when paired with Martial Arts, BUT, if you went with Dark Melee/Shield or /SR, this could push the combo higher up the chart, leaping over at least 1 other combo.
I would also voice my opinion that Willpower takes the top spot for levelling up, even over Regen. Once you start talking IOs, then everything certainly changes again. But pair DM with Willpower and.... you can see the trouble with listing out by just the secondaries
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Leveling up:
1)Willpower/Regen 2)Invulnerability 3)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura 4)Dark Armor 5)SD/SR Late/End Game - low level enh (so's or mild io's) 1)Willpower/SR/Inv 2)Dark Armor/Regen 3)SD 4)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura End Game - Pimped Out 1)SD 2)Willpower/Inv 3)Dark Armor/Regen 4)SR 5)Electric Armor/Fiery Aura Just my opinions, don't flip out if you don't agree, lol. *Note - I have not played electric armor on a scrapper, and haven't used it since the heal was added, just going by the numbers and seeing it in use by others on that set, so I could be off on that one. |
I think this is pretty well spot on but I think you have to remember that "pimped out" doesnt make say willpower worse, its just that with big +recharge numbers / set bonuses SD gets silly fun. Also keep in mind that the costs to really "pimp out" a SD and SR or Regen vary wildly.
I don't PvP so have no opinion there, but in PvE, my hierarchy is currently
1. SD
2. SR/WP
3. Invuln
4. Dark Armor
5. Fire Armor
6. Regen
Have not played electric armor.
I don't like how squishy Regen is for me and won't play it (or Fire Armor) at this point. I could only tolerate it with a sword primary to get help from Parry's defense. I must not be seeing high-end, durable /regen builds very often, as I observe /regen teammates face-planting more than any other scrapper secondary (except maybe Fire Armor).
Quote:
Looking everything over one more time the only change from Cyber's list I could really argue making is moving SR into it's own category as #1 in the SO/frankenslotting category. There really is no substitute for soft-cap defenses these days.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
I'd put SR higher than WP late game... it's as survivable on less inf as SD. Early game it's no contest, regen would be number one as far as I'm concerned with the defense sets struggling. WP is weaker in the low levels since one of the biggest problems is endurance and regen gets QR at 4 while WP waits until 20.
Once you manage to get a defense set above roughly 25% def it really starts to shine, but before that it's fairly weak. My only experience with WP is with a Fire/WP brute I took to 50 but it struck me as being fairly squishy even with moderate IO bonuses. Admittedly I didn't have a real pimped out build for it due to finances redside and IO availability but it was a decent mid-range IO build. It felt squishier than my 2 regen scrappers (both 50, one BS/Reg, the other Spine/Reg) to say nothing of my BS/SD scrapper. So... if I were rolling a new scrapper I'd have to decide what I intended. If I wanted to try a primary I hadn't played and didn't know if I'd take it the distance? Regen is my top choice since it's strongest early. If I'm looking for a late game powerhouse then Shield is the top choice. Invuln would be a good choice in the mid-game, particularly with moderate IO bonuses added in. Frankly WP wouldn't likely make the cut with me... having taken that Fire/WP brute to 50 it just didn't show me any real reason to take it over other choices. Of course YMMV but that's the feeling I got from the set. |
CMA, on the WP front, I do agree (again, coming from a Brute perspective, but the base #s are the same so it's still valid) that WP doesn't seem to be as awe-inspiring as some make it out to be. for the longest time my brute was running mid level stuff and just seemed far too squishy. However, once you really pimp the thing out (my brute now has 4 sets of Kinetic Combat, which took months to acquire, and over 40% S/L def) it really is a beautiful thing.
I think the reason it's listed over SR, along with all the other sets is that SR 'pimped out' isn't that much better than frankenslotted (as long as its softcapped, which is easy). WP 'Pimped out' is far superior to frankenslotted WP.
Other than Quick Reflexes, or whatever its called, it doesn't have any other "tricks". WP is completely set and forget, gives you quick recovery and can be softcapped (at least to some things) on top of having good regen and even some decent resists, which you don't have with SR. Also, it has a near crash-less tier 9 that actually does something. Basically the "pimped out" rankings are based upon the extra "toys" sets bring to the table once soft-capped to at least S/L.
Quote:
Quoting this cause dark armour owns hard. I was a /wp or /sr kinda guy until I gave dark armour an honest try and now I can't stand other sets. So I guess my PvE list is, in order of awesomeness, /DA, /SR, /WP. PvP comedy answer? Regen I guess.
|
Originally Posted by Celidya
1) Dark armor with a dark blue/dark red color
2) Dark armor with a teal/sea blue color 3) Dark armor with a yellow/pink color |
No love for dark armor is gettin me down.
Obviously enough of you havent got a theft of essense +end proc and a couple knock protection IO's. Add a performance shifter and /da is set on endurance usage.
Tricked out kat/da's are scary things.
Solid resists to all damage types
the best heal in the game
capped s/l defense
No set takes advantage of IO's like dark armor can.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
 |
Quote:
Well, soft-capped positional defense, which is significantly better. It pretty much can't be killed by anything but defense debuffing mobs, which are unfortunately its Achilles' heel.|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Tricked out kat/da's are scary things.
Solid resists to all damage types the best heal in the game capped s/l defense |
But that's with a very specific primary (well, two primaries) and completely tricked out. While we CAN soft cap Dark Armor without the sword primaries, the builds I've seen and fiddled with are still a bit compromised in other ways. And without IOs or a sword primary, I'd call Dark Armor fun but mediocre, kind of like Shield Defense.
I do really like Dark Armor. I think both it and Regeneration have the most personality, and I like my secondaries to have personality. I just wouldn't rate either near the top on performance except for very specific builds.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I was wondering if I could get what would be considered the top 3 secondaries. A list of 3 for PvE and another for PvP as the two I am sure are not going to be the same. I know Regen is supposed to be considered the best but is it the best for both?