TF's that would change the world of Paragon
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-02-23 12:58 in Suggestions and Ideas
Well LGTF already doe sthis sort of (it triggers a Rikti invasion somewhere) so it's not unreasonable. However the impact that it has on other players should be minimal. So shutting down the AE is a no go 
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Also a TF that requires PvP rep is just asking for trouble. There are already peopel who complain about the amount of PvE content in PvP zones. Having a TF that is gated by PvP rep means a TF that is basically never run.
Yeah, um... neither of thse ideas will ever be implemented as suggested. I feel extremely confident in that absolute declaration.
Also, they've tried a multi-team TF before (okay, it was a Trial rather than a TF), and they scrapped it because it was extremely broken. Total SNAFU.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Well The idea about AE was only because I have been an avid AE hater since it came out! but the point being that there be some sort of long lasting affect and not just a quick invastion somewhere. I have heard of other MMO's that do something similar to this where a succesful raid on enemy lands will change what happens globally in the game....i.e. more loot found, xp bonus...something along those lines. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well LGTF already doe sthis sort of (it triggers a Rikti invasion somewhere) so it's not unreasonable. However the impact that it has on other players should be minimal. So shutting down the AE is a no go
.Also a TF that requires PvP rep is just asking for trouble. |
Regarding the PVP rep issue...it was only a suggestion but I think it would be for an interesting test to see teams fight against each other in an instanced map during the course of a TF whose outcome would greatly affect the rest of the TaskForce. How it is opened/accessed/unlocked is not as important as the potential for a pvp/pve crossover mission set.
I don't think it's a fundamentally horrible idea. However, I think the global effect of the TF complete would need to be *very* carefully implemented to avoid annoying more people than it pleased.
People are not very tolerant of having their game disrupted by the actions of others. There are already people who grumble about the Rikti and Zombie invasions interfering with hunt missions. Something like a global AE shutdown would inconvenience a lot of players -- and in that exact case, effectively grant AE-hating players like you a mechanism to grief AE players by organizing rolling TFs. You might not do that personally, but I bet some people would.
Even positive effects can annoy people. There's a thread somewhere about drive-by buffing, which demonstrates very clearly that not everyone appreciates even four minutes of buff.
Speaking as a non-PVPer, I do like the idea of a TF including one PVP mission, although I think gating it by PVP rep would be a bad idea. Frankly, anything in this game which is trying to promote PVP wants as few gates as possible :-) I think a lot of people would HATE the idea, though, and there's a question of whether it would be worth the dev time for a TF which a proportion of the players would avoid on principle. But that's a project management decision, so I'm just going to say, interesting idea. Maybe it could be an option for a TF, with a non-PVP version of the TF accessible also, for people who didn't want to PVP, or who couldn't find an opposing team to play with them.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
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There's just one big problem with this whole idea. PvP and PvE gameplay are not the same thing. The slotting and power choices for PvP and PvE gameplay are not the same either. |
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Speaking as a non-PVPer, I do like the idea of a TF including one PVP mission, although I think gating it by PVP rep would be a bad idea. Frankly, anything in this game which is trying to promote PVP wants as few gates as possible :-) I think a lot of people would HATE the idea, though, and there's a question of whether it would be worth the dev time for a TF which a proportion of the players would avoid on principle. But that's a project management decision, so I'm just going to say, interesting idea. Maybe it could be an option for a TF, with a non-PVP version of the TF accessible also, for people who didn't want to PVP, or who couldn't find an opposing team to play with them.
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PvE play is centered around Inherent Imbalance. Each Archtype has inherent strengths and weaknesses, and each is balanced to play with those strengths and weakness's. PvE play puts emphasis on team efforts, where team buffs provide a clear advantage.
PvP play, as of Issue 13, is centered around Inherent Balance. Each Archtype is brought into rough line with a corresponding effect type. All damage is based on the timing of the attack to completion, rather than being based on an archtype modifier. Ergo, a Corruptor and a Blaster with the same attack, should do pretty much the same damage, defiance and scourge aside. All archtypes, aside from Tanks, receive resistances to attacks, and mez protection is removed, leaving only mez effect resistance. The focus of PvP play means that certain powers, such as the buffing shields from thermal radiation, force field, cold domination, and sonic resonance, are simply wasted powers for a defender or corruptor.
Certain powers, such as Focused Accuracy and Tactics, that a player may skip for a PvE character, might become critical in PvP play. Certain IO's or sets that boost accuracy and perception, but are ineffective in PvE play, are valuable in PvP play.
One of the things I know Castle gets is that in order for PvP play to be successful in City of Heroes, it has to be a different game than the PvE play. Issue 13 was a step in the right direction for where PvP play needs to go if it remains a part of CoH.
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Let me put it like this. What is being asked here is this:
You are playing Everquest. Fantasy MMORPG, with elves, dwarfs, ogres, and lots of magic. You get sent on a quest to recover some treasure for a dragon.
Only, to complete this quest, you've got to exit Everquest... and start up Planetside. You've now gone from a fantasy MMO to a first person shooter... and the mission you were given from Everquest is to take a Tower on Ishundar held by the Terran Republic, hold it for 30 minutes... and only if you've held the tower successfully for 30 minutes can you log out of Planetside...
to then log back in to Everquest and complete the quest.
Yes, I'm hoping this example demonstrates just how ludicrous the idea of having a Task Force / Strike Force with a PvP crossover is. It is the same thing as asking somebody to log out and go play a completely different game.
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That split, that is what puts an immediate kibosh on any plans for PvP enabled task forces. Yes, you could technically get around the split in game design by having one build of you're character for PvE play, and the second build for PvP play, and yes, a significant percentage of the minority of the game that participates in PvP Play do take advantage of dual builds in this fashion. That does not mean that the vast majority of the paying player base is willing to make a PvP slotted second build. It's far more common among the game's player base to have a maxed build for level 50 content, and a build optimized for low level task forces such as Synapse, Moonfire, or Hess.
The idea of having a PvP-enabled Task Force also presumes that a significant amount of the player-base wants to participate in PvP-content. Well, the PvP players hate it when I keep bringing this up, but the player-base just isn't there. It has never been there. PvP play, in City of Heroes, has consistently had the appeal of strawberry preserved scrambled eggs.
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As to whether or not the idea of Task Forces that change the World of Paragon is a good idea... well, I think it is. One of the features of Richard Garriot's Tabula Rasa was a story-based system where your actions in instanced environments had certain real world accomplishments. Lets say in a mission you took down a Radio Tower or Radar Station used by the Bane. For a short time afterwards, Bane Assaults would be dialed back as they (in line with what you did), recovered from your actions. Sadly, the promise of instanced affects on the mass-world was something that never really worked in the game, and was abandoned shortly after launch. I don't need to go into why Tabula Rasa crashed and burned... but really... leaving developers in charge who listened to a vocal minority and didn't have a grasp on what the game was... qualifies as one of the dumbest things Richard Garriot has ever done.
One of the problems with City of Heroes, and it's a perception problem, is that events that affect the game world are already seen as annoying. Anybody whose watching the Hero-Zone event messages can pretty much say with authority that no matter which server you are on, Zombie Raids, Halloween Event, and Alien Invasions aren't actually that common. However, because of the way City of Heroes is structured, there's probably going to be at least one player doing one mission, that is going to be interrupted or interfered with by the event.
Ergo, adding future task forces that change what the game world does may not be... such a good idea.
Adding Task Forces that change what you can do in the game world... well... that's a different matter. I like the idea of the developers gating additional story content or zones behind various task forces. Just because I like it, doesn't mean anybody else does.
This idea could work - but it would probably need the creation of a new zone developed with a change in mind and localized to that zone. That said, with the majority of the XP gain in this game being in instanced missions, I'm not sure setting up the world to change is a worthwhile use of resources. (I'm assuming the change wouldn't affect instanced missions, as that would require an enormous amount of work for very little pay-off.)
I honestly like and think the former idea could work, though with a different outcome.
For example! Doing a specific TF to spawn a GM, or have a zone-wide spawn replacement code, for example. Do the Hess TF and the Council backs down in Striga, ceding territory to the Sky Raiders and BP. Alternately, going out and doing a Fifth Column based TF (Reichsman or the Oroborous TF) could dial back Fifth Column spawns to nearly nothing (since there are no badges or hunts for them) for a period of time.
How about a task force that Debuffs NPCs in a villaingroup for a short while? (10 minutes or so) This would not effect other player's missions, since that would be a character's personal continuity, but could be applied to zones.
Queuing up more Invasions would likely cause a lot of people to rage and gripe. How about, alternatively, using another poster's "Gang War" idea? Spawns throughout the zone start creating mixed spawns of Leveless coded (insert villaingroup here) which are opposed to players and the normal faction which spawns with them?
There are lots of ways to make this idea great, I think. It's a good seed!
-Rachel-
Your first suggested idea is a TF that PUNISHES another part of the player-base for succeeding. This is quite probably one of the most horrible ideas I have heard.
But hey, let's ignore the AE. It's virtually impossible for me to do a Numina TF without the Rikti or zombies screwing me over. It's not that they happen often, it's just that they know, they KNOW, when I'm doing that TF and decide to mess with me by making the super hunt mission even longer.
Having the actions of a couple of players effect an entire server is an iffy subject. If it's a purposefully negative effect because that couple of players lost, well, that just pisses me off.
Task Forces that effect the world are nice in theory, but ultimately there's a can of worms involved and I don't really want to see it opened.
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You know, as someone who lives in the leftovers from the former soviet block, I can describe this idea thusly: Having my game time interrupted by someone else doing something else is about as much fun as my power cutting out for two hours while I wait for EVN to get off their ***** and fix whatever break they've been ignoring for the past hour and a half. I can safely say that it would feel even worse if this were done by a technology-hating person who just thought I would be better off without power for two hours to learn the virtues of a simpler life, and possibly evolve the ability to see in the dark. Either that or have my shins thicken from kicking end tables and book case I couldn't see in the dark.|
Originally Posted by Cosmik_Debris
Well The idea about AE was only because I have been an avid AE hater since it came out! but the point being that there be some sort of long lasting affect and not just a quick invastion somewhere. I have heard of other MMO's that do something similar to this where a succesful raid on enemy lands will change what happens globally in the game....i.e. more loot found, xp bonus...something along those lines.
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I don't have a problem with TFs that change, activate or enable things upon completion, so long as those things don't yank my game from right under me.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The mere fact you're suggesting a feature based on hatred only ensures that this suggestion will never,|
Originally Posted by Cosmik_Debris
Well The idea about AE was only because I have been an avid AE hater since it came out!
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NEVER
be implemented in City of Heroes ever.
And to wrap it in a Taskforce that HEROES are supposed to organise themselves to undertake? That's rather unheroic don't you think?
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@Oneirohero
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See, the problem here is that you are letting your personal prejudices influence your suggestion. Everyone has aspects of the game that they like and some they don't like. Suggestions to enhance the bits you like are always welcome. Suggestions to tweak areas you don't like to make them more appealing tend to get a poor reception but can be well received if they are well thought out. Suggestions that basically amount to trying to force people to play the way you want them to are almost always a bad idea.|
Originally Posted by Cosmik_Debris
Well The idea about AE was only because I have been an avid AE hater since it came out!
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Consider what you would think if someone came in and posted the opposite suggestion. "My arc uses the Freedom Phalanx as allies so whenever anyone plays it the Freedom Phalanx TF contacts should all be removed from the zones since they are taking part on my arc." "I think there should be a TF about nuking Recluse's Victory, when it completes all characters should get kicked out of the zone and it should be locked down for 2 hours."
You had a potentially decent idea but the examples you used were both thinly veiled attempts to force people into playing in a way you want them to. The last line of your original post makes me think that you knew this and decided to post anyway.
Also I'll note if you dislike the AE then the best action is to post suggestions for improving it. Like it or not it's here to stay and posting threads advocating it's removal (which this thread essentially does in a roundabout way) are counterproductive.
(re: the "world affecting" bit) I've been running Aion for a while. There are missions that you get where, for instance, one faction (sometimes yours, sometimes the other side, sometimes the Balaur) has to control a certain area in the Abyss for you to be able to run them *at all.*
Others rely on "finding" an NPC that shows up only on specific days.
Stuff like that that's not completable for reasons 100% out of your control is not fun. it's *irritating as hell.* I don't mean "Oh, I need a team" tough, but "Wait for the moon to be full on this day at this time or you can't run it" out-of-your-control.
It is, quite simply, not fun. (Without some sort of control to 'reset' it, at least. Siren's Call can be completely changed over by the NPCs, and resets, IIRC, with each server maintenance. RV resets on a timer. That, I wouldn't argue with.... as long as it didn't prevent me from completing a mission.)
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I understand completely your point that was also why I had put up a reply earlier on that said i used it as an example. So to those of you that took offense to my "Destroy AE" example...I am sorry. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
You had a potentially decent idea but the examples you used were both thinly veiled attempts to force people into playing in a way you want them to. The last line of your original post makes me think that you knew this and decided to post anyway.. |
Furthermore, I like the comments back and forth here. thanks all for the comments and who knows... maybe someday we'll see something of this.. (though i really doubt it
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First let me start by saying, I don't visit and read these forums avidly so if this idea has come up and been flamed....then oh well..
My first thought would be to have Larger scale TF's whose outcome would change the game for a bit.... For Example, A TF that would have to be started with a minimum of let's say 2 teams and perhaps lvl 50 toons only (because I want more endgame content!) and the arc of the TF is something like travel back in time and Stop Lady Crey and Dr.Aeon from creating the Mission Architect. The end result being you finish it in X amount of time With X deaths or less and the AE buildings go offline in all zones for 2 hours...or if you fail..then AE buildings give an increased 15% XP for 2 hours...or something... just a thought along the lines of having some sort of large scale Global effect when you complete a difficult high end TF.
Second Idea: A TF that has to be somewhat coordinated to start with a team from Villian side AND Hero side... The TF would have certain missions where the 2 teams would come in to contact with each other and actually fight each other. And depending on which team wins would determine the rest of the TaskForce progression...maybe the villian team wins and Lord Recluse fights along side them as an NPC and they have only 2 missions left to do and the losing team now has an additional 3 missions because they lost.... again just another thought...and maybe a way to bring together PVE and PVP peoples. (and I think a TF like this should be an unlockable TF in Recluse Victory after you have achieved Xamount of PvP Rep.)
Well Let the insults begin! :P just kidding i dont care just wanted to share my ideas.