5th Column a 'V' reference?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

So I'm watching bits and pieces of the 'V' marathon (old school version) and find that the rebel faction of Visitors are called '5th Column'. The Raerei's even have similar outfits.

So is CoX's 5th modeled after the Visitors or is it a direct historical reference... or a little of both?


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Posted

The reference is a bit older:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column

Edit:
The 5th column's uniforms are especially close to a Nazi uniform. Take that as a clue as to the true reference.




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Posted

Quote:
The term originated with a 1936 radio address by Emilio Mola, a Nationalist General during the 1936–39 Spanish Civil War. As his army approached Madrid, he broadcasted a message that the four columns of his forces outside the city would be supported by a "fifth column" of his supporters inside the city, intent on undermining the Republican government from within (see Siege of Madrid).
I think that covers the origin. Generally used for subversive/insurgent/infiltrator elements of a combined offensive



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Posted

Yeah, I found those wiki entries... so I'm thinking maybe both CoX and 'V' are drawing from the same source. And I've seen the uniform similarities between them and the Nazi's (the grey shirts) but the red shirts do resemble the red shirts on 'V', so I had to ask.


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Yeah, I found those wiki entries... so I'm thinking maybe both CoX and 'V' are drawing from the same source. And I've seen the uniform similarities between them and the Nazi's (the grey shirts) but the red shirts do resemble the red shirts on 'V', so I had to ask.
Considering that 'V' is based on a story from 1935 called "It Can't Happen Here", about fascists in America, I'm still thinking the whole thing can be laid on WW2's shoulders.




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Posted

I'm thinking "all of the above"

The CoH crew is very good at throwing in pop culture references in obscure places. It very well may be they drew the name from all of those things combined. The Nazis, the original reference, AND a V reference all rolled into one. It wouldn't be out of character for the devs to do something like that.

For the record....Doc Delilah is inspired by She-Hulk and Doc Samson. Pretty obvious really. (I know it doesn't relate to the topic, just thought I'd mention it)


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
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Posted

Direct historical reference, as is V's.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
"V" is how the Romans wrote "5"
And the 5th Column went time traveling to invade the Romans! We've come full circle!


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
And the 5th Column went time traveling to invade the Romans! We've come full circle!
And the Romans were allied with alien invaders just like in V


...ok, that one's a stretch


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
"V" is how the Romans wrote "5"
If V had been kept in room 30 at Lark Hill instead of room 5, would he have been a porn star instead of a revolutionary? (Since 30 ix XXX in Roman notation).


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Posted

Exxxplication!

Exxxposed, an exxxcellent exxxpostulator, cast exxx post facto as both exxxecutor and exxxsanguinated, by the exxxegis of Fate. This exxxternality, no overexxxposure of sexxxuality, is an exxxtinct remnant of the voxxx populi, now exxxtinguished, exxxpunged. However, this exxx parte exxxpression of a bygone vexxxation exists, and shall exxxterminate this taxxxing infexxxion exxxcommunicating exxxpertise and exxxpostulating the exxxplicitly unaxxxeptable and exxxcruciating exxxscoriation of exxxecution!

... I'm no Alan Moore.


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Posted

lmao


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Exxxplication!

Exxxposed...
... I'm no Alan Moore.
Well done that man. An exxxcellent effort. Reminiscent of Coleridge's XXXanadu (well not really but I had to get XXXanadu in somehow).

Unless my memory is playing me false, the alliterative V-introduction speech is solely in the film (V's opening lines in the comic are quite different). So Alan Moore didn't write it either

:-)


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Posted

Ok I had to answer to this when I saw it. Just so we are all clear: First, yes, look up Fifth Column it refers to that seige at Madrid I believe that was talked about, that's where the term comes from. Second, the Fifth Column, if you read the info about them (like on ParagonWiki, forget where else) they originated from the Nazis in WWII in the game story. Third, Their uniforms are based on the Nazi colors (gray, black, red and the white in their emblem), also their emblem is compsoed of wings like from the German eagle symbol used then with a rendition of a "death's head" over a "V" the Roman numeral for "5". Lastly, the 5th Column were in the game years before the recent show "V" was created. And just for some background info: the Column was removed due to a dispute about the game in Germany, for obvious reasons. They fairly recently brought back the Column in Issue 11, more majorly in Issue 15. There you have it, just so everyone is clear. =)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladedge View Post
Ok I had to answer to this when I saw it. Just so we are all clear: First, yes, look up Fifth Column it refers to that seige at Madrid I believe that was talked about, that's where the term comes from. Second, the Fifth Column, if you read the info about them (like on ParagonWiki, forget where else) they originated from the Nazis in WWII in the game story. Third, Their uniforms are based on the Nazi colors (gray, black, red and the white in their emblem), also their emblem is compsoed of wings like from the German eagle symbol used then with a rendition of a "death's head" over a "V" the Roman numeral for "5". Lastly, the 5th Column were in the game years before the recent show "V" was created. And just for some background info: the Column was removed due to a dispute about the game in Germany, for obvious reasons. They fairly recently brought back the Column in Issue 11, more majorly in Issue 15. There you have it, just so everyone is clear. =)
Wasn't referring to the recent TV series... was referring to the 80s series that had Robert Englund in it. I get the Nazi reference... numerous posts and a few links have been presented.

And although CoX may not have pulled from 'V: The Final Battle'; both apparently are using the same source to construct their respective antogonists.

The Visitors also utilize a red, black and grey color scheme. Their emblem is a play off the Swastika. They have a Fifth Column faction within their ranks (Fascists btw; according to wiki) that seek to usurp the current Leadership of the Visitors.


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

There is of course additional context.

In the wake of the Spanish Civil War, "fifth column" became a general term for any subversive organization working in support of the enemy in wartime (hot or cold). It was applied to organizations like the German-American Bund during WW II and those which supported (or were perceived as supporting) the Soviets during the Cold War, especially during periods of high anti-communist feeling like the McCarthy era. 'Fifth columnist" was an accusation/insult that ranked with "com-symp" and "fellow traveller" in those days.

Robert Heinlein turned the term on its head in the novel later published as The Day After Tomorrow, which was originally entitled Sixth Column, referring to covert action by citizens of a conquered America opposing the invaders.

The movie V was based on a graphic novel written by Alan Moore decades before this game came along.

afterthought - oh, THAT "V". As Yogi notes, the original series was made in the 70's (SyFy just ran a marathon of episodes and the original miniseries) and surely, there are some visual and script references to the 1970's "V" series which resonate with our own favorite Nazi punching bags.

V the miniseries and later series was notable for, among other things, being a breakout part of Michael Ironside, setting his typecasting as a hardnosed sonofagun for years to come. Favorite line:

Ironside opens the first of several cans of whupbutt on a human traitor who has been working for the Visitors. Another resistance fighter asks "You gonna kill him?" Ironside responds "As many times as I can."


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Posted

Michael Ironside kind of reprised that role on Terminator: Salvation. An hard-nosed, officer of the organized portion of the resistance movement that adhered to the chain-of-command that has to deal with another (John Conner) that holds more rank/respect over the more independent portions of the resistance.



lol, now that I think about it... there's a few other similarities between T4 and V: TFB that may lead back to Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Entities bent on the takeover of the human species; wearing human skins in order to infiltrate and subvert while processing/transporting humans for food/experimentation.


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladedge View Post
And just for some background info: the Column was removed due to a dispute about the game in Germany
Why does this rumor keep persisting? This is not true. At all.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladedge View Post
Lastly, the 5th Column were in the game years before the recent show "V" was created.
You might want to research the show "V". (Or go even a little further back.)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladedge View Post
... the 5th Column were in the game years before the recent show "V" was created.
Um, "V" came out in the 80's dude. Here's proof: V miniseries in 1983.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBhumeBB View Post
Well done that man. An exxxcellent effort. Reminiscent of Coleridge's XXXanadu (well not really but I had to get XXXanadu in somehow).

Unless my memory is playing me false, the alliterative V-introduction speech is solely in the film (V's opening lines in the comic are quite different). So Alan Moore didn't write it either

:-)
There was a speech, a chain of V's in the comic somewhere. I will now have to look it up, but I'm not redoing my version. That was a job of freakin' work.


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So you think you're a hero, huh.
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