Dark Miasma


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Posted

Ever they ever going to update that heal? I understand it also has other effects but the activation of the power is SO slow...it can get your team killed if your the only heals they got. Besides that it seems like it has the worst acc. It's so annoying. Can't they speed it up or something? Among that the healing radius is so small it's hard to get the whole team in it.


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Posted

With the other powers in the set, the heal isn't bad at all.

Sadly, -tohit isn't always enough, neither is slowing them down. The heal is more of a backup, but that requires the team to stay close together, which isn't always going to happen.

Says my many levels of Dark/ experience.


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Posted

It gets a lot easier once you throw in Fluffy, I have him specced out for healing so he ends up doing an 400+ pt AoE heal every few seconds.

but yeah, your main task is preventing heals from being needed and yeah, the slot machine effect means -to hit is only so useful.

Still, I've only had activation problems rarely with Twilight Grasp


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Posted

I personally find that Twilight Grasp to be one of the more useful debuffs in the game. When you look at it by itself, it's not too impressive. The same -tohit debuff as all other dark powers, and a decent PBAoE heal. The part that makes it shine is its -dam debuff and the -regen debuff. This is what allows /DM users to kill AVs. (amongst other things. All I will say on that is that it is a definite contributor, equally as a debuff and as a heal.) What makes Twilight grasp so damn amazing is its short recharge time, and the fact that it stacks. With MINIMAL slotting, even without IOs, you can easily get this stacked x4 on a single enemy and keep it like that. Toss in IOs and watch heads spin. Suddenly that -regen and -dam has rendered foes utterly harmless and incapable of fight-extension via unusual regeneration rates. As a bonus, even that meager -tohit debuff starts to count. The only real complaint I can relate with it is that it does not target multiple enemies, which makes its usage optimal only when soloing or fighting AVs. Even then, the heal isn't half bad.

Twilight Grasp is, in my opinion at least, THE most prominent staple of /DM. There is literally NO downside to it. The animation time you're complaining about? The short range? The fact that it's a healing power that requires an accuracy check? Consider the above. Do NOT look the gift horse in the mouth. Take Twilight Grasp, as it is, and THANK the multitude of designers who pitched in to create it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
it can get your team killed if your the only heals they got.
Except this is also the set with Howling Twilight, which is one power that gets the entire team un-killed.


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Posted

The debuffs are great yes yes. But It is annoying if your counting on it for a heal. If your the only one on your team with heals and they keep expecting you to save there lives, it gets annoying when you can't. Oh sure yes..it has a rez but who wants to die in the first place? I rather help prevent debt for my team by keeping them alive. The heal itself is pretty damn powerful and I can deal with the acc problems but the activation time is what bothers me mostly. From the time it takes your characters arms to move to actually start pulling the darkness away the target, the person I'm trying to heal has already moved to attack another target. Yeah this isn't the healers fault but most healing powers trigger the heal once it's activated. What I mean is..once the button is pressed. The person is healed even if they move away. This doesn't happen with this heal. Heals are heals. You can't just say. "Well I hope we don't have to count on you for healing. "


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Posted

Change my Twilight Grasp when you can pull it from my cold, dead... er... grasp. Of all the Heals on all my toons, I love TG the most, and I dont slot it for the Debuffs, just for fast accurate Healing. As soon as I can, I slot 1 Acc, 3 Heals and 2 Rech. Obviously combined with other bonuses in my arsenal; it is on the high end of accuracy and heals and plenty quick for most circumstances. But even a tricked out Emp/Pain loses a few. Tweak it a bit and find what works best for you, but dont change it; it works just fine.

And if people just expect you to be their own personal Heal-Bot; they deserve to suck pavement. EOS. Survival depends on everyone working as a team.


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Posted

So you would turn down a faster animation time?


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Posted

If it means losing the rest of the awesomeness due to balance issues... yes.

After around level 18 or so, I never had an issue getting heals on time, so long as my teammates stayed within range (and I chase them when they need the heal). The animation time is a non-issue if you learn to lead it.

Which is a nice way of saying, "lrn2playnoob"


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Posted

Eh, if people are complaining because they died after moving out of range of your heal, you should just one-star them and find a decent team to join. Yes, some times people die because they're not in its tiny range or it takes too long, boo hoo. No power in the game is an absoulte 100% face plant preventer. Twilight Grasp is already one of the most epic powers in the game.

I suggest you never play a kinetics character if Twilight Grasp annoys you...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
So you would turn down a faster animation time?

...FASTER animation time? I don't think you understand how /immensely powerful/ Dark Miasma is. It's... amazing. Completely amazing. If you think any aspect of this set needs to be buffed, well... Why don't you go take a look at Trick Archery instead, then come back and tell me Dark Miasma has issues?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnGeist View Post
Except this is also the set with Howling Twilight, which is one power that gets the entire team un-killed.
Which isn't much use, when I'm using Howling Twilight for it's -500% regen debuff, before anyone dies, and therefore they have to wait for it to recharge, and I slap the debuff on the AV again.

I only use Howling Twilight as a rez in normal play, against AVs/GMs it's used as a regen debuff, and I'm saddened when I play with other /Dark Miasma players who don't realize HT has the regen debuff in it.

When up against AVs, currently, as I'm not fully IOed out, TG fits into my Attack Chain nicely.

Shriek -> Scream -> Shriek -> TG -> Shriek -> Scream -> Shriek -> Shout -> Repeat!

Puts the -regen debuff of TG, everytime it's up

Combine that with HT's -regen debuff, and Tar Patch, plus Sonic's -res. All is good and yummy

Sadly, heals and -tohit aren't always enough. :/ Darkest Night on Recluse during a STF, while I spam the heals on the soft capped Shield Tanker wasn't enough to keep him standing at all (though maybe if he had his tier 9 >.> )


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnGeist View Post
...FASTER animation time? I don't think you understand how /immensely powerful/ Dark Miasma is. It's... amazing. Completely amazing. If you think any aspect of this set needs to be buffed, well... Why don't you go take a look at Trick Archery instead, then come back and tell me Dark Miasma has issues?
Heck, even a properly specced Trick Arrow can make sick puppies out of a lot of foes, granted, you almost have to sacrifice your personal attacks, but that's why we have two builds now.


But yeah, I play a Dark/Elec and twilight is spammed constantly.

Defenders are not healers, at least most aren't.

Darks are debuffers, the job of a dark is to turn the enemy into a wimp.

Pulling up Mara, I have:

Twilight Grasp: -6.25% to hit, -12.5% damage, (Those two stats alone account for a combined 23.43% reduction of accumulated damage) -50% regeneration, 391 heal

I only have a 4.24s recharge, but even then I can reliably hit 3 stacks, more if I have a recharge effect on me from a team mate.

At 3 stacks, we're looking at -18.75% to hit and -37.5% damage....a total reduction of accumulated damage of 60.94%.

IE, just with Twilight, Mara can reduce an AV to doing only 40% of his/her usual damage.

Throw in the other effects I usually have out:

Shadowfall: 5% defense to all, 27.65% resistance to energy, negative and psionic damage

the defense alone reduces the incoming damage to people in your shadows by 10%.

If the enemy is energy, negative or psionic, then I'm reducing incoming damage by: 34.89%

Combined with the Twilight Grasp above, assuming max stack of 3:

That's 23.75% reduction to to-hit (combined in tohit debuff and defense buff) and 37.5% reduction of all damage with 65.15% of E/N/P damage. (combined in dam debuff and resist buff)

Darkest Night: -27.7% to hit, -37.5% damage. That alone should be having the enemy reduced by 72.125% of normal ability.

With the other three abilities, I'm looking at:

42.45% to hit debuff
5% defense buff
75% damage debuff
26.75% E/N/P Resist buff

Most enemies at this point have only a 5% chance to hit.

Fearsome Stare adds another -18.75% to hit (we're way past a common foe's soft-cap limit), with the added benefit of REALLY slowing down incoming attacks.

If I can convince Fluffy to stand near the opponent, then his Chill of the Night (PBAoE aura) reduces to hit by another -30%

Fluffy's Twilight Grasp will reduce damage by another 10% and to-hit by another 5% (while healing 461.27 hp and this recharges over 10 seconds, so he can stack twice for a total of -10% to hit and -20% damage.

Fluffy's Darkest Night adds another -30% damage and -15% to hit

And his tenetacles reduce to hit by another -5%


Looking at the totals now:

61.5% to-hit debuff alone
121.5% to-hit debuff with Fluffy
5% buff all defense

even the most bloody accurate AV is struggling to hit barns at this point

75% damage debuff alone
125% damage debuff with Fluffy
27.65% E/N/P resist

not sure what the damage minimum is, but pretty much any baddy has hit it at this point

From Mara: 390.9 HP heal every 4.24 seconds with 1.71 accuracy bonus
From Fluffy: 461.27 HP heal every 10 seconds with 3.46 accuracy bonus

And this is IGNORING the affects on the enemy's defenses:

You're looking at a total -250% regeneration debuff. -750% regeneration debuff if you use Howling as a debuff vs AVs instead of holding it off (necessary vs some)

And also a -30% resistance to the enemy

Then there's all the vastly underestimated soft controls:

Fears, Stuns, Immobilizes (though that's controlled by Fluffy)

I also have Elec as my attack and almost every single attack is slotted with a chance for disorient. But we're not talking about Elec, so I won't get into that.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninus View Post
Change my Twilight Grasp when you can pull it from my cold, dead... er... grasp. Of all the Heals on all my toons, I love TG the most, and I dont slot it for the Debuffs, just for fast accurate Healing. As soon as I can, I slot 1 Acc, 3 Heals and 2 Rech. Obviously combined with other bonuses in my arsenal; it is on the high end of accuracy and heals and plenty quick for most circumstances. But even a tricked out Emp/Pain loses a few. Tweak it a bit and find what works best for you, but dont change it; it works just fine.

And if people just expect you to be their own personal Heal-Bot; they deserve to suck pavement. EOS. Survival depends on everyone working as a team.
My TG only has ACC slotted in it because I haven't gotten the last 2 Doctored Wounds IOs in it yet, and relies on +ACC set bonuses (I'm at about 40% now...though when completed will be around 72-78% from just set bonuses) and Tactics...

Dark Miasma is like making everyone softcapped...the odds are in your favor to survive, but they're not promised...but it also requires everyone to stay huddled together.

Sadly, I find most people don't understand that part. :P

Radiation has the same problem, except they don't have a ACC based heal...so while DM's might be a bigger heal, sometimes it's nicer to have a heal that won't miss. :P


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
My TG only has ACC slotted in it because I haven't gotten the last 2 Doctored Wounds IOs in it yet, and relies on +ACC set bonuses (I'm at about 40% now...though when completed will be around 72-78% from just set bonuses) and Tactics...

Dark Miasma is like making everyone softcapped...the odds are in your favor to survive, but they're not promised...but it also requires everyone to stay huddled together.

Sadly, I find most people don't understand that part. :P

Radiation has the same problem, except they don't have a ACC based heal...so while DM's might be a bigger heal, sometimes it's nicer to have a heal that won't miss. :P
And you've got to get practiced at controlling where Fluffy is to make best use of him, up to and including resummoning.


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Posted

All it means is that as a part healer u need to know when to use it. if u use it all the time at times its going to get people killed. but if u use it right...its a great tohit heal...dont forget people...tohit heals.heal more then auto heals...not sure on numbers but basic at lvl 50- TG heals more then a basic lvl 50 pain dom non tohit heal. so there has to be a downside somewhere.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
it can get your team killed if your the only heals they got.
It's been how many years and it keeps defaulting that that... Put it this way - if you're playing Dark Miasma and your team died because of problems with your one heal, then you failed long before you needed that heal to keep them alive. Dark Miasma is not a healing set. It's a debuff set that can do a damn good job. Use all the OTHER tools in the set and you will rarely ever get to the heal in the first place.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
So you would turn down a faster animation time?
If it meant rebalancing the rest of the set, yes.

Darks are not healers. Sure it might be tempting to think that early on but once you get into later levels and your debuffs are properly slotted, there'll be less need to heal all the time because the enemy will be constantly missing. And then it becomes a nice little debuff with a heal attached.

Plus with 2 accuracy IOs slotted into TG, mine very rarely misses these days, even when exemped. Its accuracy is no less than other targetted heals in game.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
Ever they ever going to update that heal? I understand it also has other effects but the activation of the power is SO slow...it can get your team killed if your the only heals they got. Besides that it seems like it has the worst acc. It's so annoying. Can't they speed it up or something? Among that the healing radius is so small it's hard to get the whole team in it.

I put 3 Acc in DM, I barely ever miss.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
The debuffs are great yes yes. But It is annoying if your counting on it for a heal. If your the only one on your team with heals and they keep expecting you to save there lives...
Stopped reading there.
CoX has no Healorz. If the team cant get that into their heads, they are, officially, 'Doing it Wrong.'


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanus View Post
Indeed, if your team is playing well and working together appropriately, you rarely need much in the way of healing.

Our first static team had an Empath, she often complained that her task was boring, which I think is part of why she took up the roll of scout as well.
I'd have to disagree here. Playing on easy difficulty and avoiding some of the harder TFs, this is true.

But going up against Cims, Mothership Raid, +4 enemies, this becomes alot tougher.

You'll still be needing the heal.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I'd have to disagree here. Playing on easy difficulty and avoiding some of the harder TFs, this is true.

But going up against Cims, Mothership Raid, +4 enemies, this becomes alot tougher.

You'll still be needing the heal.
Smartest thing I heard all day


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I'd have to disagree here. Playing on easy difficulty and avoiding some of the harder TFs, this is true.

But going up against Cims, Mothership Raid, +4 enemies, this becomes alot tougher.

You'll still be needing the heal.
Actually, we routinely up the difficulty as soon as it becomes available because we're looking for trouble.

Granted the team with Emp/ defender has broken up due to losses to school, but we still meet in other teams, usually playing anywhere from +2 x6 to +4 x8 (on mostly four member teams) and rarely have troubles.

The only thing that's given us trouble so far is MoSTF, and even that, we've done every mission without death, just not all on the same go through. And the deaths we've had have always been something...unlikely.

We tend to find the game rather easy combat wise.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
Besides that it seems like it has the worst acc.
Twilight Grasp has normal accuracy (75% vs critters, 50% vs players). If you're hitting with your other attacks with normal accuracy, you're hitting approximately the same amount with TG (RNG is fickle, of course). Since it requires a tohit check to go off, slotting accuracy or gathering +tohit (from powers, teammates, or set bonuses) is basically required if you're playing above 1x1.


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