for handclap i would avoid knockback enhances
i would slot at least 1 acc, and 1 end reduce (maybe more), and a proc that adds dmg (since the power is horribly lame due to the fact it does no dmg to begin with, yet states, BABs, and several AVs with hand clap all do dmg)
for so long i have wanted to use handclap in a build let me know if it works out ( i wish they would add damage instead of kb to it ) at the least a super handclap could hurt someones ears !!
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If you have no real goal other than to rampage through Mercy, you don't need any slotting at all. But if you're actually trying to accomplish something with your slotting, then we need to know what that something is to give you serious advice.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
How should Hand Clap be slotted, if at all? Keep in mind, again, that I'm probably sticking to generic IOs.
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I have a SS/Electrical Brute that I was trying to get high Melee defense with. I took Hand Clap so I could slot it with Razzle Dazzle (a Stun set that gives 2.5% melee defense). After having done this, I can't really recommend going after melee defense (you're better off going for Smash/Lethal), but it was an interesting experiment.
I was expecting that I would never use Hand Clap, but it's actually useful a fair amount of the time. Because the Brute isn't as robust as I'd originally hoped, Hand Clap is very useful for essentially turning off incoming aggro at will, with high Knockback and a decent stun.
Hand Clap works fine with Electrical Armor, Stone, Fire, etc., because they don't depend on the proximity of mobs for defense. But Hand Clap can be a problem with sets like Shield, Willpower and Invulnerability because they depend on keeping the enemies close.
However, if you position yourself properly, you can mitigate the problems associated with knockback: taunt enemies into a small area, such as a small enclosed section of a corridor in a lab, a narrow section of a tunnel in the caves, or just move to one side of the spawn you're fighting so as to put most of them between you and a wall. The majority of the spawn will just hit a wall near you, which will minimize the scatter and the amount of defense/to-hit debuff/damage buff you lose.
Here's the current build, but I'm not sure I'm happy with it:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(3), Dmg-I:35(7), Dmg-I:35(15), Dmg-I:35(40), EndRdx-I:35(40)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I:35(A), ResDam-I:35(37), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(48)
Level 2: Haymaker -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(3), Dmg-I:35(7), Dmg-I:35(15), Dmg-I:35(25), EndRdx-I:35(34)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I:35(A), ResDam-I:35(5), ResDam-I:35(5), ResDam-I:35(13)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:35(A)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- Acc-I:35(A), Dmg-I:35(9), Dmg-I:35(9), Dmg-I:35(13), EndRdx-I:35(25), RechRdx-I:35(31)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I:35(A), RechRdx-I:35(11), RechRdx-I:35(11), Heal-I:35(19), Heal-I:35(46), Heal-I:35(48)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I:35(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I:35(A)
Level 16: Unyielding -- EndRdx-I:35(A), ResDam-I:35(17), ResDam-I:35(17), ResDam-I:35(19)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:35(A), Heal-I:35(40), Heal-I:35(43)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:35(A), EndMod-I:35(21), EndMod-I:35(21)
Level 22: Rage -- RechRdx-I:35(A), RechRdx-I:35(23), RechRdx-I:35(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I:35(A)
Level 26: Tough -- ResDam-I:35(A), ResDam-I:35(27), ResDam-I:35(27), EndRdx-I:35(31)
Level 28: Invincibility -- EndRdx-I:35(A), DefBuff-I:35(29), DefBuff-I:35(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+:35(31), LkGmblr-Def:35(37)
Level 30: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I:35(A), ResDam-I:35(36), ResDam-I:35(36)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(33), Dmg-I:35(33), Dmg-I:35(33), EndRdx-I:35(34), RechRdx-I:35(34)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I:35(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:35(36), LkGmblr-Def:35(37)
Level 38: Weave -- DefBuff-I:35(A), DefBuff-I:35(39), DefBuff-I:35(39), EndRdx-I:35(39), EndRdx-I:35(50)
Level 41: Hurl -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(42), Dmg-I:35(42), Dmg-I:35(42), Dmg-I:35(43), EndRdx-I:35(43)
Level 44: Hand Clap -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(45), RechRdx-I:20(45), EndRdx-I:35(45), EndRdx-I:35(46), RechRdx-I:35(46)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I:35(A), ResDam-I:35(48), ResDam-I:35(50)
Level 49: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I:35(A), RechRdx-I:35(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:35(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:35(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:35(A)
Level 1: Fury
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Set Bonus Totals:
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 3% Defense(Energy)
- 3% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 3% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 15% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 20% (1.25 HP/sec) Regeneration
A few Set IOs for making things easier - the two Recharge IOs should give me the ability to double stack rage - not enough to really matter in combat, but enough to avoid the Defense debuff - and if I'm putting those in, I might as well slot the pure Defense from that set, and get the Regen bonus. And, of course, the +3 Defense IO is always useful. Other than that, though, I doubt I'll invest in IO sets.
I'm just not sure if I should try to move Hand Clap and Hurl - the two powers I'm making this character to take - to a point earlier in the build...
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I've often wondered whether you could use Hand Clap as a poor man's AoE stun by combining it with the Mu AoE Immobilise power (which suppresses knockback). Anyone tried this?
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Originally Posted by Redoubtable
I've often wondered whether you could use Hand Clap as a poor man's AoE stun by combining it with the Mu AoE Immobilise power (which suppresses knockback). Anyone tried this?
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Yep, well not exactly. I use to use Lightning Clap + Electric Fences. Then I realized it was quicker to just kill everything.
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This ^. I've tried it and came to the same conclusion on my SS/ELA.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Yep, well not exactly. I use to use Lightning Clap + Electric Fences. Then I realized it was quicker to just kill everything.
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The Porcelain God - DarkKinetics Corruptor
Meat Juice - DarkDarkSoul Brute
Pretty and Strong - Do you really have to ask?
I'd stick a Force Feedback proc in, if you plan to use it in real fights. If you're gonna scatter things, you might as well get real attacks and Dull Pain up more quickly as a result.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Sure wish that Hand Clap caused AoE damage and no knockback, somewhere in the effectiveness neighborhood of Mu's Ball Lightning, and that Hurl was as efficient as Mu ST Ranged attack (can't remember exact name). IE. faster animation and didn't required you being on the ground...
I want a Pure Super Strength Character, but in this game AoE is King. For a Melee toon, The only reason to avoid getting one of the Patron/Epic AoEs is for concept reasons, which is fine, but you're certainly more effective if you get an some extra AoE and ranged attacks. So, you have to go with the Power Pools.
I prefer a Ranged attack and an Extra AoE attack that feels like Super Strength, but for effectiveness' sake I selected Mu Lightning powers (my Alt Build still has Hand Clap and Hurl, for concept reasons, but forget teaming with it)
More PPP/APPs that 'fill out' Existing Sets while allowing one to maintain a concept... has that been suggested before?
...Don't all those Patron AoE attacks do rather low damage, on an extremely long timer?
I know AoE is big in this game, but do those attacks really help all that much? Unenhanced, they do about a Tier 2 attack level of damage... while taking 1/5 your end, and needing 32 seconds to recharge. I have never seen a real use for these attacks, to be honest.
Besides, that's neither here nor there. This is a concept character I'm talking about, here...
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While those numbers may seem a bit low, suppose ball lightning hit 16 targets. That number wouldn't seem so low then, would it?
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Iv watched a Brute use it with a nearly full fury bar, and it did a heafty amount of damage.|
Originally Posted by Tonality
While those numbers may seem a bit low, suppose ball lightning hit 16 targets. That number wouldn't seem so low then, would it?
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So im going to add to what Tonality said, and go one further.
That number wouldn't seem so low when its damage enhanced, recharge speed enhanced, and backed by alot of Fury, would it?
...And on most of my Brutes, I'd be LUCKY if I can devote three additional slots to that attack.
Don't get me wrong, there is another brute of mine that I would have liked to work Dark Obliteration into. But, without six slots to devote to it, I don't think it would be worth it. So I put Darkest Night in instead.
I guess I'll see when I get there if that's a mistake...
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When DN was first added to the Soul Mastery Pool I quickly respecced my SS/WP Brute into the power. I slotted it with 1 -tohit debuff and 2 end rdx, minimal slotting and no IOs. I then did the RWZ Challenge and realized the DN was a great benefit to my survivability but came with a hefty end cost and slowed down my all out attacking I had grown use to (current build did not have focus on +end/+rec). |
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
...And on most of my Brutes, I'd be LUCKY if I can devote three additional slots to that attack.
Don't get me wrong, there is another brute of mine that I would have liked to work Dark Obliteration into. But, without six slots to devote to it, I don't think it would be worth it. So I put Darkest Night in instead. I guess I'll see when I get there if that's a mistake... |
I decided that my SS/WP Brute was better built for being a damage machine rather than a "tank." So I respecced back into Dark Obliteration and haven't looked back.
Basically, DN, IMO of course, is best for Brutes who want to fill the Tank role or just want some additional survivability. No choice is better than the other, and your playstyle typically denotes which path you take; moar damage or moar survivability.
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I think the approach (and how to choose) is based on the kind of bruting your doing. With SS\ELA (my main SS toon) I'm more focused as an AoE monster. Run into a spawn with lightning field running...wait a few moments to let fury cap out, energize, then footstomp + dark obliteration, then clean up what is left over. So if you're more of an AoE machine, dark oblit fits in better then DN.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
...And on most of my Brutes, I'd be LUCKY if I can devote three additional slots to that attack.
Don't get me wrong, there is another brute of mine that I would have liked to work Dark Obliteration into. But, without six slots to devote to it, I don't think it would be worth it. So I put Darkest Night in instead. I guess I'll see when I get there if that's a mistake... |
If you're more of the tanking kind of brute (being Invul, that could be the case), then you'll want something more to increase your survivability and decrease your incoming damage, which would be darkest night. The trade off is that it can really suck down your END if you're spamming attacks and your AoE damage output suffers, but if your tanking, that means you have team members to make up for that.
If you had the luxury of having END boosting powers (willpower, electric armor, energy shields) then you can pick up both and not worry too much about endurance consumption (at least compared to other brutes). I actually pick up both darkest night and dark obliteration and have them both fully slotted with IO's, which is something else to look at. You don't necessarily have to 6 slot them to make them worthwhile. With IO's you could get away with 3-5 slots and still get something out of them.
Just something to consider.
The Porcelain God - DarkKinetics Corruptor
Meat Juice - DarkDarkSoul Brute
Pretty and Strong - Do you really have to ask?
For the record, this brute isn't getting any of the Patrons for theme reasons - this is a theme character, after all.
The Brute I was referencing earlier is a SS/Fire Brute - Who will have Blazing Aura, Foot Stomp, Soul Tentacles, and Burn for an AoE massacre (and Consume to keep me going). I'm not certain, but I think the extra AoE of Dark Obliteration would be a bit redundant - especially without being able to 6 slot it, while the extra survivability of DN may shore up Fiery Aura's low numbers...
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I certainly wouldn't skip the patron AoE especially on a Brute that only has one AoE from their primary. If you were planning on using Burn for the AoE damage, I think Dark Obliteration would be a better choice, it's more reliable AoE damage. I only find burn worth it for AV's and such and when mobs are herded up close together and they're all immobilized, even then it can only damage 5 targets at a time iirc. Also, Darkest Night doesn't work as good for resistance based toons, sure there is the damage debuff, but you personally won't get as much use out of the tohit debuff portion unless you are building with defense in mind.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I got to say I am a big fan of Dark Obiliteration. On my SS/Invul I use FS and Dark Obil, they own everything. I aslo have Darkest night as well. I will say I rarely use DN, these days. I bought it more to round out my toon for those rare occassion I might want it for higher end PSI mobs. Honestly, I have never been in the need it for that but I did find it useful in herding mobs in AE. But now that the AE expansion got scaled back I almost never use it but I suppose its just nice to have.
I will say with my DM build I always go with Mu. I like having Fences and Lightning Ball it balances out DMs lack of true AE. I guess I have to lose style points for going with Soul mastery for a most of my other builds and Mu for DM builds.
Best of Luck,
Cipher
I give you +style points for using Soul Mastery, Gloom is legit.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Altitis strikes again!
Okay, this may take some explaining. I want to make the a Super Strength Brute... but not just someone using their fists to fight. I want to FEEL the Super Strength. Or, in short, I want to be sure to include Hurl and Hand Clap into the build - two powers I typically avoid.
Now, this is a concept and 'For Fun' character, not one I'm going to invest heavily in. This is the character I'm gonna take back to Mercy to rampage across the zone, throwing things everywhere.
That said, some questions:
Will Power or Invulnerability. Neither are ideal - Hand Clap's not good for either - but they both fit the concept well.
How should Hand Clap be slotted, if at all? Keep in mind, again, that I'm probably sticking to generic IOs.
When would you recommend that Hand Clap or Hurl be taken. Obviously, I'm not taking Hand Clap right away - I have much more useful things to grab at level 6 through 20 - but should I work it in sooner, or later?
Thanks for any help!
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