Quote:
Are you volunteering?
|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Has anyone ever calculated the DR curve for each AT's damage, resistance, etc...?
|
Quote:
There is a difference between: |
Originally Posted by black_barrier
no.
no. no. in i12, you did that, past the start time and you forfeited. (9:15 for a 9pm match). sadly, a lot of the teams didn't have the balls required to say "start the match or you forfeit". i still believe you should be able to shuffle around your lineup as much as you want prior to that specific point in time where if you don't have a full team, you forfeit and that's the end of it. |
1. Understanding the dynamics of the game and using one's understanding to make counter lineups.
2. Not joining the match with your lineup until the last possible minute in-order to ensure that your team's lineup is the scissors to the other team's paper.
There are HUGE differences between now and the i12 hero ladder.
One: Lineups are less established - people aren't prone to have standard lineups yet.
Two: The skill margin is no longer that big. Lineups will matter more. In i12 hero disruption teams should have beaten hero jump teams. That didn't stop better SGs from running Jump lineups against less-good SGs' disruption lineups, and mopping the floor with them. People didn't get serious about lineup changes because they didn't need to care. The game doesn't work that way anymore.
TPM probably could have beaten any SG on the i12 hero ladder if we ran Energy/Energy blasters instead of Fire/ems. I doubt we could get away with something like that now.
I guess we'll just see how well the process works when we get things started. If we start seeing matches decided at the arena terminals (as in "Crap! They brought line-up X which always beats the line-up Y that we brought."), then we can always call for a vote to change the line-up submission process. Personally, I'm not worried about it yet even though I'm fine with the pre-match line-up switches (I'm not in the dUmb majority there); I'll argue if it calls for an argument. Regardless, I'm blaming Silit because he told me to.
W, A, S, D seem broken when i am trying to evade. So yes keyboards are broken in pvp. lol
Quote:
You are using the word "exploit" incorrectly.
|
Originally Posted by Infamy
...unless we all have invested in exactly the same exploit of the mechanic...
|
Quote:
No I am asking if anyone has done that.
|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Are you volunteering?
|
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I think Arcanaville had a spreadsheet or something, but it's been a while since I've seen information on that. We have the formula that's used to calculate DR, but there are a few variables in there that we don't really have access to ("A" being the AT in question, "B" being the particular aspect that is getting DR'd, etc.).
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
What's more interesting to me is that a lot of folks difine broken as "I think it's OP" and not "It's bugged (for being unresisted, doing 3x what the other AT's version does,etc.)" or "It's a proc that goes off 100% of the time"
Tangentially, I'm amused that less ATs work in the new PvP which was to make more things viable allegedly. Ok, tanks are easier in zone, esp if they take earth pool but in anything resembling competitive PvP there are 4 ATs that work (blasters, stalkers, corrs, trollers). Doms can be used for damage, MMs have some use but are speciallized, Scrappers are still a joke, tanks could be tuantbots, but a brute makes more sense, defenders are lolz, veats are anti-stalkers. Pisses me off when I think about it.
We'll keep messing around with lineups while our storm/storm scrappers are getting PL'd.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
no, just no| Why dont they just remove the ability for inherent power to work with epic powers.. Scrappers won't be able to crit with fire blasts, stalkers cant crit with sharks, tanks cant taunt with fossilize, etc... |
Why are people saying sharks are broken? Sure if you hit BU and have procs in sharks you can get to 600-700 dmg with crit but it is not constant dmg, besides considering you sit there for 3 sec wide open and only can reach that number with crit, i would assume dmg suppose to be somehow high, no? Sharks alone won't kill anyone, had 4 stalkers sharking my emp in RV today and i lived and this is with HD and TS.
Broken powers/items:
LR from rads since it doesn't get DRed.
Sleep proc: chance for placate has 100% chance if you variety mez from different categories.
Placate on stalkers still doesn't work well ..sadly :/
IW and mez prot/res for epic ATs (arachnos, khelds) still get supressed while being held/stunned etc.
Poison trap...do i need to comment on this one?
Benumb suppose to reduce targets mez res (according to power info) however doesn't do it anymore :/
Hold procs can hold anyone for full time because procs itself are unresistable so mez caused by this procs is also unresistable > doms/troller holds wth
Gale's KB doesn't get supressed and can be stacked.
Quote:
Surviving 4 sharks in RV is different from trying to do so in the arena. RV teams are generally uncoordinated and independent stalkers just look for the kill shot. In the arena an emp should never survive 4 coordinated sharkers. |
Originally Posted by EnD_Reitanna
no, just no
Why are people saying sharks are broken? Sure if you hit BU and have procs in sharks you can get to 600-700 dmg with crit but it is not constant dmg, besides considering you sit there for 3 sec wide open and only can reach that number with crit, i would assume dmg suppose to be somehow high, no? Sharks alone won't kill anyone, had 4 stalkers sharking my emp in RV today and i lived and this is with HD and TS. Broken powers/items: LR from rads since it doesn't get DRed. Sleep proc: chance for placate has 100% chance if you variety mez from different categories. Placate on stalkers still doesn't work well ..sadly :/ IW and mez prot/res for epic ATs (arachnos, khelds) still get supressed while being held/stunned etc. Poison trap...do i need to comment on this one? Benumb suppose to reduce targets mez res (according to power info) however doesn't do it anymore :/ Hold procs can hold anyone for full time because procs itself are unresistable so mez caused by this procs is also unresistable > doms/troller holds wth Gale's KB doesn't get supressed and can be stacked. |
That being said, I don't believe sharks are broken. That list looks about right to me. +1/-1 tho.
Gale isn't "really" broken. To my understanding it applies 2 ticks of knockback and they only stack if they happen within the same server tick. Server ticks happen so fast that its a random thing when it does occur. Its not something that can really be planned or coordinated, and subsequently can not be exploited.
The one that you left out is Blaster MM Drain Psyche. The -end component is -500% unenhanced. The Dom version is only -80%. I doubt that's intentional.
Sharks aren't broken
The way damage is caluclated for Epics/pool powers is
Quote:
I have a sneaking suspicion the damage rule for melee attributes were mistakenly applied to melee ATs ranged patron/epics. Either mistakenly or done out of ignorance. |
Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
Sharks aren't broken
The way damage is caluclated for Epics/pool powers is |
I don't think anything at this point is "working as intended."
Quote:
You might have something there - it would make sense. |
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I have a sneaking suspicion the damage rule for melee attributes were mistakenly applied to melee ATs ranged patron/epics. Either mistakenly or done out of ignorance.
I don't think anything at this point is "working as intended." |
The PvP 2.0 was a house of cards from the beginning - Im sure it was all 'whiteboard'ed up and then when they felt they had a working model, they ran to code it. Their problems started when tweaks needed to be done. Since one system was built on another, the changes made really made the house fall.
A lot of the changes were built upon the anti-spike code being in place. With that code gone, everything else seems to fall apart as well.
The anti-spike code was a broken premise to begin with, but it held PvP 2.0 together.
Need to go back to the whiteboard again
Quote:
I remember my "no target" lineup, anti-spike code was a terrible idea that is funny in retrospect.
|
Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
You might have something there - it would make sense.
The PvP 2.0 was a house of cards from the beginning - Im sure it was all 'whiteboard'ed up and then when they felt they had a working model, they ran to code it. Their problems started when tweaks needed to be done. Since one system was built on another, the changes made really made the house fall. A lot of the changes were built upon the anti-spike code being in place. With that code gone, everything else seems to fall apart as well. The anti-spike code was a broken premise to begin with, but it held PvP 2.0 together. Need to go back to the whiteboard again |
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I have a sneaking suspicion the damage rule for melee attributes were mistakenly applied to melee ATs ranged patron/epics. Either mistakenly or done out of ignorance.
I don't think anything at this point is "working as intended." |
I'm not entirely convinced it was unintentional. I think the devs may have allowed it as a way to make melee relevent. It makes no sense to strengthen melee by improving their ranged attacks, which is exactly why I think the devs did it. Given their past record of nonsensical "improvements", I could see them dismissing all the logical solutions in favor of that.
Emp is dead-on with the house of cards statement. I don't think the devs realized that admitting things like the anti-team code being broken essentially meant that the foundation of their whole idea for a new PvP system was broken as well. Maybe they understood it without saying so publicly, but they were either unwilling or unable (due to time constraints) to do anything about it other than the tweaks here and there you saw over the last year.
Those just equal band-aids imo; the foundation is still flawed, but there's sadly no reason that I can see to have hope of a "back to the drawing board" type of change that PvP requires. That's why so many of us were so pissed when they announced i13. Most PvP'rs could easily point out the flaws in the devs' proposed system right away, so it was completely unnecessary for everyone to go through all of this crap. The best brainstorming team was already quite available (and had actually done most of the job for them on the boards here for everyone to see).
I'm angry again.
Quote:
You want to know the funny thing . . . A lot of primarily pve players agree with you, after having tried zone pvp after i13.|
Originally Posted by Psoma
Emp is dead-on with the house of cards statement. I don't think the devs realized that admitting things like the anti-team code being broken essentially meant that the foundation of their whole idea for a new PvP system was broken as well. Maybe they understood it without saying so publicly, but they were either unwilling or unable (due to time constraints) to do anything about it other than the tweaks here and there you saw over the last year.
Those just equal band-aids imo; the foundation is still flawed, but there's sadly no reason that I can see to have hope of a "back to the drawing board" type of change that PvP requires. That's why so many of us were so pissed when they announced i13. Most PvP'rs could easily point out the flaws in the devs' proposed system right away, so it was completely unnecessary for everyone to go through all of this crap. The best brainstorming team was already quite available (and had actually done most of the job for them on the boards here for everyone to see). I'm angry again. |
The audience that they were supposed to lure in.
The amount of irony in that is enough to cause a gaping hole to appear in the center of the earth.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
*looks out window of underground lair again*|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
The amount of irony in that is enough to cause a gaping hole to appear in the center of the earth.
|
So that's what that is.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
Although I haven't checked them in a while, I believe the DR values have been unchanged for several issues. The latest version of my damage mitigation spreadsheet linked on the first post of this thread has a DR calculator on one of the tabs of the sheet that I believe is still accurate. It takes as inputs the archetype in question, the attribute in question, and the aspect of the attribute, and calculates the DR for that value.|
Originally Posted by macskull
I think Arcanaville had a spreadsheet or something, but it's been a while since I've seen information on that. We have the formula that's used to calculate DR, but there are a few variables in there that we don't really have access to ("A" being the AT in question, "B" being the particular aspect that is getting DR'd, etc.).
|
Just a reminder that DR calculations can sometimes be a multistep process. Suppose you have a defense power slotted with enhancements, and you want to find out what that power's strength would be in a PvP zone. First, you would need to figure out how the enhancements decay in PvP. Defense enhancements increase the Strength of the power they are slotted into, and that Strength gets reduced. If its, say, lethal defense we're talking about, you would first figure out how the Lethal Strength was reduced.
Then, you'd multiple the base Lethal defense of the power by the Lethal Strength (basically, the reduced lethal enhancement of the power) and then take *that* number and determine how DR reduces that, by looking at how Lethal Cur is reduced (defense powers increase the *value* of your lethal defense, so they increase lethal Cur, or Current Value).
So you have to know a bit about how powers work to use the calculator. SR affects Strength (usually this is enhancement strength), Cur, and Res (i.e. resistance). It does not affect other things like Abs or Max, which is why it doesn't reduce the damage of powers (which are normally Abs effects) or the effects of powers like Dull Pain (at least the part that increases maximum health, which is a Max effect).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Has anyone ever calculated the DR curve for each AT's damage, resistance, etc...?
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread