Influence to Prestige conversion rate change
By
BashfulBanshee,
Posted on: 2010-01-25 09:45 in Base Construction
Quote:
Thanks for that update - I wasn't aware it changed over level... |
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Prestige is base on level.
At level 1 you get 52% of base, and don't reach 100% until level 25, which is when the inf starts tailing off. http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Prestige |
That said, my point is still valid even using those numbers.
I couldn't find a chart of inf reward per minion, so I did it the old fashioned
way and actually ran some toons for a couple minutes and defeated a few
even conned minions with each, giving these numbers...
Code:
Character Normal Mode SG Mode Inf Cost per Level Inf Pres Inf Pres unit Prestige ===================================================== L50 4724 -- 2362 13 181.7 L37 382 -- 191 13 14.7 L22 43 -- 43 12 0 L15 35 -- 35 10 0 =====================================================
net cost per point of prestige... If you buy it, we know it's 500:1, and as
we see here (and you noted earlier), it's nearly 182:1 for a L50 defeating
even-conned minions.
But, as the toon level drops, the prestige ratio falls rapidly (my earlier point).
So, yeah, prestige does change by level... In our example, from L15 to L50
it was a 30% change - your linked table shows a 20% hit, but it neglects
to consider rounding.
However, over that same level range, influence earned in SG mode changed
by 6,748%...
So, that prestige ratio isn't a very useful, or even meaningful number to compare
with the straight influence -> prestige conversion rate.
One thing that should be noted however - there is NO valid reason for not running
in SG mode if your toon is < L29 because earning prestige is FREE for those
toons that simply run normal content.
Clearly, if there is a "deal" to be had here, it is only available to those lower
level toons.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Quote:
No, no, no. You're assuming he was out of SG mode? I think it far more likely that anyone who cares about prestige would be in SG mode at all times and then be interested in converting influence to get ADDITIONAL prestige.
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Originally Posted by Nitra
Think about this... You traded 100 mil for 200k prestige when in that months time it took you to make the 100 mil you could have easily made the 200k prestige...
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Wha?|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Point 2: I think the ratio is close to fair.
The devs have to take the most severe cases into account. There are people who make 50 billion inf a year playing this game. There are people who can generate 2 billion a week and have done so, repeatedly. I think I make a couple hundred million a week, and I don't spend that much time on it. There's a lot of people who could buy a base worth of prestige already. PVPers, Marketeers, Farmers, these are some rich people and there's a lot of them. In fact, since most of the inf farmers make is from drops in one form or another, you can run in SG mode and it doesn't hurt your earnings significantly. You might be able to make a case that the inf-prestige ratio is overly generous. I personally did some experiments by funding "half price Prestige" and I think most of the people who converted at 250-to-1 are also people who would have converted at 500-to-1. I don't see a philosophical problem with 250-to-1; I think it would increase the amount converted and remove inf from the game, which is a goal of mine. |
In one paragraph you state that "a lot of people" can buy huge bases with their influence and the ratio could arguably be made even more painful then it is now.
In the next paragrah you turn around and state that you also see nothing wrong with a 250 to 1 ratio and that converting would contribute to a goal of yours of providing an influence sink.
Stop turning so sharply, I don't have my seatbelt on!
Moving along, I'm not asking for a 10:1 or even a 100:1 ratio. Any kind of reduction though would be an improvement to what it is now. 300:1 or even 400:1.
Right now if I convert 100 million inf to prestige I can take that 200k and use it to buy a SINGLE ROOM for my base. two rooms if I choose wisely and leave them both mostly unfurnished. That is a ton of influence to blow on such a small amount of prestige. And I'm not expecting to ever be able to grow a small plot size to a super secure city borough by converting influence to prestige. But I would like to see a better return for my time, such that sinking in that much influence buys me a little more then ONE single room that works.
I wouldn't mind getting a dev comment on this topic, but off hand I can't remember the dev assigned to bases right now. I thought it was Sunstorm but now I'm recalling a PlasmaStream as well. Though I think PlasmaStream is a player??? Oh well. I'll figure it out and try to shoot a PM their way and see if I can get a response.
I think what Fulmens was trying to say is that even though there are those who can afford the current exchange, it's not necessarily the average player and therefore not a truly viable inf. sink. There does need to be an influence sink, but in order to make the inf -> prstg sink a viable one, the ratio should be reduced to accommodate the average player. His "comfort zone" for this reduction would be 250:1.
Leastwise, that's my interpretation. 
As to redname representation for bases...
- PlasmaStream is a player. Generally considered a leader in the base community, though I've not seen them on for a while.
- Sunstorm was the redname that was supposed to be working on bases, as well as some "other projects"... Unfortunately, those "other projects" took up much more of his time. Also, I saw someone mention in another thread that he is no longer a redname. I've not confirmed this for myself.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
Plas is still around, just not that active on the forums.
(She's my main SG's co-leader)
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
I'm siding with 'The rate is silly'. It detracts from the fun.
Who loses from people having more leeway with Influence -> Prestige? Yes, it's an inf sink, and it doesn't have to stop being one. It'd be nice if it was one that people felt more obliged to look at, by getting something worthwhile back for it. Yes, they fixed the cost of bases a number of issues ago; that's because they were grossly broken except for the largest of SGs.
More fun = a good thing. I'd say make the exchange rate fairer.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
I personally did some experiments by funding "half price Prestige" and I think most of the people who converted at 250-to-1 are also people who would have converted at 500-to-1. I don't see a philosophical problem with 250-to-1; I think it would increase the amount converted and remove inf from the game, which is a goal of mine. |
This. I think it should be halved. The rate right now is crazy high. 250:1 would be much more reasonable, while still being worse than kiling mobs at lvl 50 (186:1 as above).
I have to say that the rate is not so bad, as you are not supposed to BUY prestige, but EARN it in SG mode (and as has been pointed out it is only by a factor of 3 more expensive than doing that on a level 50). So go out and earn it.
(If you are a hero that have the sun shining out of their shiny behind as opposed to villains, you can even get a nice bonus on that by freeing scientists at Portal Corp on the street.)
Do I think smaller groups have much more a problem than bigger ones, and thus the rate is a bigger problem for them? And that with less players in an SG each one's earning should contribute more to the hoard than with more players so the lone wolf SGs have a slight chance to get teleporters once too? Sure. But that was not the question.
i never honestly saw the point of buying prestige, once i noticed the ecxchange rate was horrible (when i was first starting to play), i never even thought about doing that.
on every one of my toons i run in sg mode from 1-50 and can easily make nearly 600k prestige by the time i get to lvl 50, and then since they made it so we can earn both inf and prestige above 25, i never turn off the sg mode so several of my toons are at, above, or nearing the 1 mil prestige earned mark.
just in the course of lvling a toon you can easily make enough prestige for a good base (couple that with alt-itis) and you can easily rake in the prestige, more sg members also helps with that, but its not necessary if you play all your toons in sg mode.
Quote:
And herein lies the design flaw.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i never honestly saw the point of buying prestige, once i noticed the ecxchange rate was horrible (when i was first starting to play), i never even thought about doing that.
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A resource sink isn't a resource sink unless people actually USE it.
If you set the exchange rate too high, like it is now, most folks won't even consider using it. Which defeats part of the purpose of HAVING the resource sink.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
Quote:
But... playing in SG mode to get prestige instead of inf to avoid the bad exchange rate is an inf sink too...
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
And herein lies the design flaw.
A resource sink isn't a resource sink unless people actually USE it. If you set the exchange rate too high, like it is now, most folks won't even consider using it. Which defeats part of the purpose of HAVING the resource sink. -np |
Quote:
playing in sg mode your still making inf (even if its slightly less), your still profiting, instead of dumping an enormous sum of inf into the converter instead of using the 100 mil or something to buy IOs, or saving the 100 mil to be able to purchase purples and such.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
But... playing in SG mode to get prestige instead of inf to avoid the bad exchange rate is an inf sink too...
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and as mentioned several times in this thread, the technical numerical exchange rate for inf dropped off an enemy is 182 inf for 1 prestige, which is far less than the 500 inf to 1 prestige exchange rate of the converter.
in the end, with the converter, you lose more money using it, by just running in sg mode, you earn prestige, more inf than converting, and in the fun of it all you dont even notice the slightly less inf gain (especially if you farm).
Quote:
They're both resource sinks.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
But... playing in SG mode to get prestige instead of inf to avoid the bad exchange rate is an inf sink too...
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One, however, is being used all over the place.
The other is not.
You don't spend the time, energy, and resources to program up a feature and expect folks not to use it. If it's not being used there's something wrong with it.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
Point 1: You don't get either "a better ratio" or "better tools".
ahem:
shame on me for posting right as i wake up.
we still need devs to comment on this...
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.