Moving SGs to diffrent servers
By
Altoholic_Monkey,
Posted on: 2010-01-22 04:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Right. Most people don't want to play MMs. They don't want to play them *so* much that getting a heroside version is one of the more frequent requests. |
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
Did I say we had a hard time making prestige??? Oh Nope sure didn't... I say it was harder to get in the top cause most people Don't wanna play MMs and Most don't want MMs on their team.
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| No noone has said server merger although in other games that is what they do when the population declines. Which is the only thing I think Gristlebone was talking about there is a decline in the overall populatoin of this game so it wouldn't be out of the question for them to think about merging servers. Why would people quit if Servers would merge? The only way i see that is if they lost their SGs. |
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| Just curious should they do away with the kick from SG button? Since the person made prestige in your SG...and your saying the leader shouldn't be able to make decisions on the future of the SG. |
Have you actually bothered to think of the impact of doing this past "I want?"
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Pray tell how did you actually check the numbers on those servers?By search?By looking?Or by standing under Atlas and counting?Where is the hard numbers,did you hack the servers to get actual numbers or is this more of your conjecture?|
Originally Posted by gristlebone
It has already been stated that the free transfers were a gift for the holidays.
Duh,did you read the part of my post that stated that I have multiple sg/vg's?So yes I do know what goes into making a successful sg/vg. As stated in the second part of my post the op needs to learn the global channels/searches/etc in addition several people have posted in this thread who are on that server.Hence the op can get their globals and voila new teammmates! As far as your reeking of this and that is concerned you spout conjecture,save your doom posts for the conspiracy forums.kthnxbai __________________ Here I can lay this rest here and now.(lol,now that statement really reeks.) yes,you can believe that the transfers were a gift for the holidays pal,I DO NOT.I don't have a problem with friends or teams,but alot of other people do on lesser populated servers,but thanks for your amazing advice on the matter.I'm sure we are all very thankful for your global channel/search/forums/etc. tutorial. DUh???? How many of your SG's are top 20 on whatever server? Doom post? its just realistic!I have checked the other servers at peak times and at off times,the numbers are way down.I don't think a merge of servers is out of the Question,nor do I think the GIFT of free server transfers,helps lesser populated servers.The players and their Sgs,teams,etc suffer for it ,which is the reason for the entire topic. kthxlater |
Anyone that gets on the forums and states that the devs have some ulterior motive for the things that they do is nothing more than a doom conspiracist.
Can I say lolSGs without getting modded?
For the record:
I do not care for the idea of SG transfers.
Now as to a more personal reason.
Right now the GF and me are moving a few of our heroes off of Virtue to another server. For us, Virtue has been more a Villain server than Hero. We have a small SG for the eight or so Characters in that SG. The server we're heading to has a SG we run that is just getting a few more additions.
So we would have the same issue that I've settled now on Virtue: What to do with the old SG? In our case, I've found someone who wants to take it as is. We grabbed what we wanted out of it. Now it's just taking the time to install the person as the new Tier 6 and get our Characters off of Virtue.
Does it suck to move to a new server and start over? I would tend to think so. Is that any different than someone just starting out on a server for the first time? Not really.
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test) 
No, that is not what I'm saying. You need to work on your reading comprehension. Kicking someone from a SG is nowhere near the same as a suggested move. One affects one person. The other affects everyone - whether they want to move or not, whether they'd have space to move with the SG, money (or space) to buy the slots to do so if they DO want to -
Have you actually bothered to think of the impact of doing this past "I want?"[/QUOTE]
Yes i thought of the impact the only reason this post is being posted is because of the people in SG and Coal who have asked me about switching servers... which i mentioned a few posts up... In my opinion joining an SG that is not yours you are taking the risk of working in it and having no control over what is done with the prestige you make. My point with the kick button is that's it's not much of a diffrence if the SG is moved and you lose your spot and if the SG leader decides to use his kick button.
Champion isn't one of the top two in population, but we've had at least as many come to our server as transfer off of it, if not more. It's not all doom and gloom. Not everyone wants to play on Freedom or Virtue, or they'd have been there already.
Global SGs sounds good in theory, but in practice sounds more like a headache. What if you have two characters with the same name from different servers that want to be in the base at the same time? Now you get into server merger problem territory. No one wants to have <name>Freedom. Plus, if you were allowed to share bins cross server, or simply pass things from a character on one server to one from another, the markets would get wrecked (IE, they wouldn't get much use).
I'd rather they make the start up costs for building a workable base lower, or give us a way to copy/paste the design of a base like we can now with costumes, which would lessen the impact of switching servers. Prestige is just a number. It doesn't mean your group is great because you're on a list, it just means you've played the game in SG mode more. The people in your group are what makes it great (or not great).
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
Top 100 does make it easier to recruit.. I know cause i have recruited for SGs in the top 10 and ones that are not near the top.. People like being in the Top...
The only reason I made this post was to point out to the Devs that free server transfers did make lesser populated servers lesser populated.. It wasn't to cause a BIG Debate. The only people who really can give truthful and not theories on weather or not it is a good idea or a bad idea are the DEVs. Maybe I should have put this in a diffrent area of the forums as I am new to this.
and you can check how many people are on a server by doing a search it will search all and tell you how many are on. LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!!!
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All the unhidden folks, yeah, but not everyone.|
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
Top 100 does make it easier to recruit.. I know cause i have recruited for SGs in the top 10 and ones that are not near the top.. People like being in the Top...
The only reason I made this post was to point out to the Devs that free server transfers did make lesser populated servers lesser populated.. It wasn't to cause a BIG Debate. The only people who really can give truthful and not theories on weather or not it is a good idea or a bad idea are the DEVs. Maybe I should have put this in a diffrent area of the forums as I am new to this. and you can check how many people are on a server by doing a search it will search all and tell you how many are on. LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!!! |
People like being in an active group. Active does not necessarily mean being in the Top 10. A group of four friends that have their own SG and play with each other all the time is active. A huge SG that's been around a while (so it's in the Top 10 because it's old) but only has maybe 6 people on at any one time is not active.
For future reference: If you start a thread, not everyone is gonna agree with you. Welcome to the internet. Overreacting (which you're doing) is only chumming the water.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
All the unhidden folks, yeah, but not everyone.
People like being in an active group. Active does not necessarily mean being in the Top 10. A group of four friends that have their own SG and play with each other all the time is active. A huge SG that's been around a while (so it's in the Top 10 because it's old) but only has maybe 6 people on at any one time is not active. For future reference: If you start a thread, not everyone is gonna agree with you. Welcome to the internet. Overreacting (which you're doing) is only chumming the water. |
Well our groups are active... and I know not everyone is gonna agree but be realistic that your opion is not a fact it's an opinion... but from my experience when you say do you wanna join the #12 SG on the Server you get more people to say yes as opposed to just saying do ya wanna join a great SG?
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Why "should" I have the right? If I'm superleader, I have complete and total control already. I could kick everyone from the SG and they would have ZERO recourse. The superleader has DE FACTO ultimate control and decision-making capability.
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
To turn around your question, if I were in your Supergroup, why should you have the right to take all the prestige I helped earn and the base I helped pay for to a different server than the one I choose to play on?
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The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
I think it was very cool that you guys offered free server transfers at the holidays, but you took some of our lesser used servers and made them even lesser used. I have been playing on Victory for over 2 years now. I have a very Nice big base that I have worked on and gotten it up to 45 in the top 100 which i have to say is not easy for an ALL MM SG... Now why is it I would want to move to a diffrent server leaving behind all the prestige I have earned and the base I have created just to go to a more populated server and have to start over. You guys should try to figure out a way so that our SGs and Prestige can move along with us. It is not fair to some of who have devoted our time to the SGs giving out things having countess contests just to have to give it all up. Not to mention the extra slots i purchased for this server.
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I Agree. One of my fears is that in the future CoH merges some servers and they just move characters over and not SGs.
I hope they at least can develop the software for such an instance but having it as an payable option for us would be interesting aswell... although I fear that would just officially put the nail in the coffen of some of those servers there...
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I fear that too... I would hope that they would work to make sure we didn't lose them... We all put alot of love and work into our Groups...
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
making sg's global would be a nice way to increase your sg rep between servers, instead of having top 100 lists for each server, they would consolidate into 1 list.
on the other hand, im one of those who would never leave victory, so it would be kind of pointless to implement something as that. |
Apart from seeing where your supergroup actually ranks on a global basis
The more global things we have ingame, the better imo! I dont want to become just the best on a single server, i want to become the best in the world
Well everybody has a goal right?
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I don't care if they're #1, #12, #50, or not on the list - that list means *jack.* And eventually people realize that. Prestige means nothing as far as how good or bad an SG is - for all I know, the people in the top SGs are complete jerks who don't communicate, act like a room of five year olds when they do and generally are miserable to play with, but farm 24/7 in some combination in SG mode so there's always prestige flowing in. May as well say your SG has the greenest base walls - it's as useful as prestige for telling how worthwhile a SG is. |
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
Well our groups are active... and I know not everyone is gonna agree but be realistic that your opion is not a fact it's an opinion... but from my experience when you say do you wanna join the #12 SG on the Server you get more people to say yes as opposed to just saying do ya wanna join a great SG?
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If I find people I repeatedly play with who I *enjoy* playing with, and they're in an SG, I ask who I talk to about joining. If they're NOT in an SG, we create our own (or if they don't really care for theirs.)
FWIW, of all my characters, only two are in (or otherwise affiliated with) large SGs - coalitions of them, in fact. LoC and RO. I didn't join because "ZOMG they're big," but because they're fun.
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In theory, an SG belongs to all of its members. Therefore, moving the SG without the consent of those members could reasonably be viewed as unfair. In addition, other factors like cost of SG transfer (who pays, if there is a fee?), cost of character transfers (currently free, to an extent, but not without limits and will not always be free), availability of character slots and of names on the new server, etc.|
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
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In practice, the SG is under the control of the superleader. Despite the fact that SGs are typically built by the efforts of many people, ultimately one person controls and 'owns' the SG under the current rules. Since this person has the power to kick with impunity and reshape the SG to his/her desires, it follows that he/she would have the power to transfer the SG if such an option existed. Should it?
In a very good SG, people talk and make decisions together and a unilateral move to another server wouldn't happen - either everyone goes, no one goes, or the SG splits, all without acrimony. In more dictatorial SGs, transfers like this are bound to cause drama as players who've worked hard for an SG find that suddenly the rug's been pulled out from under them and now they have to open up character slots on Freedom and move their characters (and what if they started playing on, say, Victory to get away from Freedom?).
Now, is this any different than the SG superleader arbitrarily kicking a player? Not really - in both circumstances you have no recourse and you've lost access to what you've worked for and been a part of. I'd say both are unfair or at least fertile ground for high drama and both would be markers of an SG I'd prefer not to belong to anyway, but the only real difference is in terms of scale. The superleader kicks one player (or maybe several, if you have that sort of leader) arbitrarily versus the superleader absconds with the SG and effectively kicks dozens or more players in the process.
Personally, I think an option like this is a waste of Dev time. Players can already transfer and can recreate an SG on another server or split an SG across multiple servers if they so choose. Being "Top X" doesn't really matter much to those in the know, but it's true that it can be an effective recruiting tactic especially for those who don't really understand the import of the ranking system and just want to be tops (which is common).
That said, if being in the rankings is that critical to an SG, then simply stay where you are. Or suck it up and move if that's really what many people in the group want, and with activity and work a position can be carved out again on the new server. In my opinion, in the absence of a total consensus, it is more fair to leave the SG where it lies and have those who want a change bear the onus of starting over, rather than forcing those left behind to do so. You're going to create drama either way, but the way it is now requires no additional Dev time to change and is, in my view, better.
As for the doom about server mergers, I don't see that happening anytime in the near future, not with GR on the horizon. It would send exactly the wrong message. So for those who "don't believe" that the free server transfers are simply a gift from the Devs, enjoy your fashionable tin foil hats. It ain't happening. At worst, the transfers are providing data that, a year or more down the road, will be one among many data points that lead to a merge. Not anytime soon.
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I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
I guess only time will... I said I am only putting this out due to the fact that our SG and Coal was talking about it... as for us being the kind of SG that acts lke 5 year old and never communicates is absurd. We use Teamspeak, skype, and vent to talk and we usually talk Daily.... In fact most the Top SGs that I know are not the way MB Described... I guess you have just had incounters with idiots. We always make major decisions by having meetings and voting... I have said that in just about every reply i have added to this post, but for some reason people keep going back to... The members should get a say. Well in my case they do and that is the only reson the topic was posted. That and to point out the free transfers are making the lesser populated servers lesser populated... and that is cold hard fact.
1) I understand that you're voicing the concerns of your SG and Coalition friends. I get that. I further understand that your SG, at least in your view, is a good SG that takes care to do right by its members. You need to understand that not all SGs are like this, and that many SGs that put priority on staying in the Top 100 (Top 50, Top 10, whatever) are not like this.
2) If we're going to talk about a change to the game, we have to talk about all the cases, not just the case of the person proposing it. It may well be that in your case, with your SG and Coalition, there would be no drama and no problems and that everyone would have a voice. That simply would not happen in every instance with every SG. The question is whether or not the development time and potential negatives are justified by the benefits. In this case I don't think they are.
3) "Cold hard fact" may be an overused phrase. In this case, what you have is cold hard perception, not fact. While it may be highly probable that many people took advantage of the free transfers to move to Freedom/Virtue, no player has factual numbers for server or subscriber populations. Personally I've actually noticed an upswing of activity on some of the "low population" servers on which I play, especially Triumph and Victory. That's a fact. No, wait, that's my perception.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
when you say your perseption is that victory and triumph population is up is that Hero or Villain? Cause my PERSEPTION of Victory Villains is it's Down.
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I understand that you've put work into prestige but just as an example that your experience is not everyone's experience. |
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
Did I say we had a hard time making prestige??? Oh Nope sure didn't... I say it was harder to get in the top cause most people Don't wanna play MMs and Most don't want MMs on their team.
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I've had an All Mastermind VG (Malicious Multiplicity) since the day COV was introduced in Oct 2005. Prestige earning hasn't been a problem. I don't know where the SG is on the top 100 list but as that's server based it's probably not in that top list considering its on Freedom. But we've earned enough prestige to get the largest plot and before the prices were adjusted we were able to buy the 3rd Tier power and control units. Most MMs tend to solo because they're pretty dang good at it, earning prestige is not an issue for any members who are willing to run in SG mode.
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Both, though moreso in the case of heroes (as always). Still, I've seen people recruiting for SFs on Victory every time I've logged on this last week. | when you say your perseption is that victory and triumph population is up is that Hero or Villain? Cause my PERSEPTION of Victory Villains is it's Down. |
Oh, and a minor pet peeve, but it's perception, with a 'c'. It's one thing to misspell a word, another to misspell it while replying to a post where you have it right there to copy. I think you going and CAPITALIZING the word is what made me say something.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
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We don't have a problem makeing prestige... just most the people I know don't like MMs and don't want them on their teams. People join us and stay with us and within our coal so it's not that we don't have good SGs we have many loyal members in all of our SGs being that I am leader in like 5 of them and Most of them are in the top, but that's because we treat our members VERY Well!!!
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Originally Posted by Altoholic_Monkey
I understand that you've put work into prestige but just as an example that your experience is not everyone's experience.
I've had an All Mastermind VG (Malicious Multiplicity) since the day COV was introduced in Oct 2005. Prestige earning hasn't been a problem. I don't know where the SG is on the top 100 list but as that's server based it's probably not in that top list considering its on Freedom. But we've earned enough prestige to get the largest plot and before the prices were adjusted we were able to buy the 3rd Tier power and control units. Most MMs tend to solo because they're pretty dang good at it, earning prestige is not an issue for any members who are willing to run in SG mode. |
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LOL WOW... TY for the Spelling lesson I didn't think my capitalization would offend you.
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Originally Posted by Justaris
Both, though moreso in the case of heroes (as always). Still, I've seen people recruiting for SFs on Victory every time I've logged on this last week.
Oh, and a minor pet peeve, but it's perception, with a 'c'. It's one thing to misspell a word, another to misspell it while replying to a post where you have it right there to copy. I think you going and CAPITALIZING the word is what made me say something. |
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As long as your being receptive to criticism. |
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
LOL WOW... TY for the Spelling lesson I didn't think my capitalization would offend you.
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1. The word "spelling" isn't capitalized in the middle of a sentence.
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| We don't have a problem makeing prestige... |
2. The correct spelling is "making" not "makeing".
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| People join us and stay with us and within our coal |
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OMG... This is super lame... Yeah I made a couple spelling errors! PLEASE FORGIVE ME SPELLING POLICE!!! There are many people that refer to their COALITION As a Coal. Get a life!!!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
As long as your being receptive to criticism.
1. The word "spelling" isn't capitalized in the middle of a sentence. 2. The correct spelling is "making" not "makeing". Coal is a readily combustible black or brownish-black sedimentary rock normally occurring in rock strata in layers or veins. |
So MMs have a hard time earning prestige? Which is all the "top 100" means - a rather worthless measure, frankly. After you buy the biggest plot and fill it with all the crap you can, then what? I'd much rather have an SG I enjoy being in - whether it has a tiny base or is #1 on the server is irrelevant if it's not *fun.*
A SG made up around one of the *most durable, hard hitting ATs* has problems earning prestige.
Yeah, you'll excuse me if I find that a bit hard to believe.
And for the people that don't want to move? Why should they lose out on their work? Who controls the movement? What about all the personal items put into the base? What if 1/3 want to move (for some ungodly reason) to Freedom, 1/3 want to stay where they are, and 1/3 want to move to (say) Guardian? What if others don't have the slots available there?
Bad idea. And no, nothing pointing toward a server merge (another bad idea, unless the dev team feels like losing many subscriptions and being unemployed soon,) despite the other tinfoil hat post. (Edit, noticed it was another person after.) Oh, btw... some people moved OFF the higher servers to the lower, or between lower pop servers, which certainly didn't hurt them.
No noone has said server merger although in other games that is what they do when the population declines. Which is the only thing I think Gristlebone was talking about there is a decline in the overall populatoin of this game so it wouldn't be out of the question for them to think about merging servers. Why would people quit if Servers would merge? The only way i see that is if they lost their SGs.
Just curious should they do away with the kick from SG button? Since the person made prestige in your SG...and your saying the leader shouldn't be able to make decisions on the future of the SG.