mass hypno= not a 100% safe solution vs all
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I would say oil slick tips the balance in favor of TA. The ability to alternate between PBU/aim/roa and OSA/aim/roa means you can smoothly maintain a pace where you're obliterating a +0/+1 spawn with just one rain.
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Originally Posted by Nny_the_mad
wheiter dark/ or trick/ would be better, i don't know.
the -to hit of dark and the fact ark servant could work as a aggro magnet (that would helps to keep the mob packed) is appealing. |
Adding another vote for Dark/Arch.
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
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That is why I've added as much defense as possible. Nothing in Defender land will be perfect or easy. I still think Kin/Archer has the best chance of being decent.
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Originally Posted by Nny_the_mad
mass hypno= not a 100% safe solution vs all
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Here's some videos of my Dark/Dark/Power farming. He's IO'd out not for defense or resistance, but for recharge and endurance.
The routine is:
1. Torrent the spawn onto their butts.
2. While they're grounded, use Darkest Night as an AoE Debuff and aggro-puller.
3. Hide and put down a Tar Patch for them to run into.
4. When they're bunched up, run out and debuff them with Fear, and if there are real nasties in there, Howling Twilight and Dark Pit which is enough AoE stun to stun bosses.
5. Cone 'em! Alternate between Tentacles and Night Fall. Sure, they do moderate damage, but when you multiply that by 15 foes each application... that's a lot of damage. I'll throw in a single target attack now again, especially against bosses or mezzers.
6. By the time the cones hit, their ACC is floored. So, no need to softcap this Defender. There are enough quick deaths to provide all the inspirations I need for break frees and a little extra damage now and then.
7. Coning them to death is sufficient for farming, but every other spawn I'll have Blackstar ready to finish them off.
The video is from the infamous family farm; it's set for 0+/8x/no bosses solo.
Coning them to death.
Blackstar
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Isn't that a part of this challenge?|
Originally Posted by Nny_the_mad
no defender will ever come close to the speed of a fire/kin troller.
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And let's not forget that fire-kins are brill at farming only very certain types of enemies (usually S/L without heaving mezzing). There's some fire tanks out there with broader survivability and similar kill-speeds (although they're very expensive builds).
If the argument is "can a defender survive and complete a farm?", then the answer is obviously "yes".
TA and Dark both offer great survivability, but the highest DPS-ing solo farmer has got to be a Kinetics because nothing else keeps you sitting at the Damage cap. I guess the problem is survivability.
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Originally Posted by Nny_the_mad
i rolled a kin/arch a long time ago. was a good idea on the paper. it turned to be horrible
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Thanks for the warnings.
i also may be very bad, but solo wise, the combo was not very survivable and the damage was not as high as on the paper.
team wise, the RoA was always hitting dead corps :s
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I've been able to do fun things with my Kin/Archer. But I'd agree with this sentiment. It has been very hard to get enough defense to be noticable and still not gimp myself with other problems. The system I do have is far from perfect. |
Originally Posted by Nny_the_mad
i also may be very bad, but solo wise, the combo was not very survivable and the damage was not as high as on the paper.
team wise, the RoA was always hitting dead corps :s |
I've added a lot on tough multi-person farms, where there is a good solid tank, but the enemies are of very high rank. When it takes more than a couple seconds to wipe through a spawn, I can be a huge help with some good added damage myself and a lot of extra damage to others from the fulcrem shift buff.
If something were as good as a Fire/Kin Controller, people would know about it.
If it is possible it will probably be a ridiculously expensive tightly min/maxed build and my bet is still on a Kin/Archer.
That Dark/Dark video was impressive though. Always good to see video.
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Say what?|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
archery is a good attack set because rain of arrows has no target cap
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City of Data says this for the RoA pseudo-pet that does damage:
Max targets hit: 16
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
The dark/dark video was nice but still, it took the better part of two mins to chew through them. There really isn't another attack from a blast set that compares to rain of arrows as a farming tool.
Most people are saying the crashless nukes are the way to go. Not so much because of the actual crash, but because of recharge time.
Secondaries:
Archery
What about Asssault Rifle?
Primary is a little more open to debate:
Kinetic
Radiation
Dark
Traps
Storm
Am I missing any others?
Full Auto has a bad reputation among some because it's a long, very narrow cone (and it also apparently hits only 10 targets.) I don't use the power, I'm just passing on rumors. AR also doesn't have Aim or Build Up. Rain of Arrows is a nice big circle you can put anywhere.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I don't disagree. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Full Auto has a bad reputation among some because it's a long, very narrow cone (and it also apparently hits only 10 targets.) I don't use the power, I'm just passing on rumors. AR also doesn't have Aim or Build Up. Rain of Arrows is a nice big circle you can put anywhere.
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I actually like cones, and don't have much trouble lining them up to do decent damage. But I've never really played Assault Rifle to a high level. No one had really talked about it much one way or the other and didn't want to rule it out if someone else thought it was good.
I play a Dark/ice that is currently 35 and is turning out to be a good solo defender. Tarpatch-ice storm-Frost breath is an effective combo. the character is hard to kill and does good area damage. Ability to cap slow and hold a boss is good for keeping mobs in the damage area. A good single target attack is icing. I will have to get to the epics before I can see if I get enough area attacks to kill fast enough to be a farmer though. This is my best solo defender though and therefore the one I would give the best chance of making it down on the farm.
I have a AR/Kin Corr and Siphon Power+Fulcrum plus Full Auto is a beautiful thing! In fact I had to be cautious b/c I would put out some much dmg and aoe spawns would turn to me and leave the brute standing there puzzled.
If going rogue allows you to convert over, ill be ditching defenders and thier weak *** damage for corruptors. I know defenders are better buffers, but the thought of being almost a blaster and still being able to buff myself and my team makes the idea very nice sounding.
I think kin/archery/psi or dark/dark is about as close as a defender gets...
however doesnt a corrupter have access to the same powersets basicly, but with more damage?
If so, I see the possibilities!
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Corruptors only do slightly more damage while sacrificing a lot of buffing power. Scourge is what makes the difference, and certain sets take advantage of it better than others.
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Originally Posted by Medic_brietz
however doesnt a corrupter have access to the same powersets basicly, but with more damage?
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I've often wondered about the numbers (never bothered to look them up) because it feels like the opposite is true for me. Corruptors seem to do way more damage and I never notice the loss of buffing power.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Corruptors only do slightly more damage while sacrificing a lot of buffing power. Scourge is what makes the difference, and certain sets take advantage of it better than others.
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Defender ranged mod is 0.65, Corruptor only has 0.75. The Corruptor does get Scourge, though.
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Name the one AT that doesn't have Fire for an option in terms of damage. Even with /fire, I wouldn't farm with a defender anyway, but a number of people would.
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Originally Posted by Medic_brietz
It seems that every At but defenders have some sort of farming build..
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Luminara, do you think it would help you, "farming" if you had the Dark Nuke?
Parthenia: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
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No. Even at the level of +Recharge I can give it, such as putting it in place of Dark Transfer with the Armageddon set and keeping my current level of global +Recharge (including down time, i'm less than 2s away from perma-Hasten), it would still only be available only once every 3-4 spawns. Plus it would require me to rework the build to fit in Dark Consumption (to compensate for the endurance crash) and Soul Drain (because even with Disruption and Acid, fully slotted Blackstar can't defeat -1 lieutenants), and then I'd have to throw away most of the IO sets I have now and refocus the build on Melee Defense.|
Originally Posted by Talionis
Luminara, do you think it would help you, "farming" if you had the Dark Nuke?
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What slows me down is endurance management and recharge on OSA. My actual kill speed is excellent, in my opinion.
Flash, OSA, Disruption, Acid on the boss if there is one, TT/NF/TT/NF/TT/NF, Apprentice Charm on OSTarget if it hasn't already been defeated (Posi's Blast procs in TT and NF usually take care of that for me), Disruption again (double-stacked at this point), TT/NF/repeat until everything is down, or until only the boss remains, at which time I switch to single-target attacks and finish it off. If there was no boss, I have to wait 5-20s (it depends on how the procs are treating me. sometimes they're stubborn and won't trigger often, sometimes they're firing off constantly and even lieutenants drop so fast that i have to stop and see if a GM is standing behind me with a big IWIN button) for OSA to recharge. If there was a boss, OSA is generally recharged by the time I'm finished, but I wait a few extra seconds for my blue bar to tick back to full.
My kill speed is more dependent on the random number generator in control of proc triggers than anything else. TT and NF cycle almost seamlessly at the level of +Recharge I've got, so that's my attack chain any time I have more than one enemy in front of me. How frequently I get proc triggers is what determines how quickly I defeat a spawn. If I'm getting lucky, it can be as quick as 15s. If not, if I'm not seeing procs trigger and I miss my chance to light up OSA, it can take up to a minute. On average, I could run through that CoT scanner map (two floors, office map, 8-10 spawns per floor) in 12-13 minutes. On a good run, 9-10 minutes. A bad run could go up to 15 minutes.
Blackstar would slow me down even in the best scenario.
And if the forum eats this reply, I'm riding my moped to wherever they keep the servers and punching someone in the face.
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Hehehe, And I thought it was just my ISP being stupid |
Originally Posted by Luminara
And if the forum eats this reply, I'm riding my moped to wherever they keep the servers and punching someone in the face.
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BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Yeah taking over a minute per spawn for even level family isnt that hot .
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Here's some videos of my Dark/Dark/Power farming. He's IO'd out not for defense or resistance, but for recharge and endurance.
The routine is: 1. Torrent the spawn onto their butts. 2. While they're grounded, use Darkest Night as an AoE Debuff and aggro-puller. 3. Hide and put down a Tar Patch for them to run into. 4. When they're bunched up, run out and debuff them with Fear, and if there are real nasties in there, Howling Twilight and Dark Pit which is enough AoE stun to stun bosses. 5. Cone 'em! Alternate between Tentacles and Night Fall. Sure, they do moderate damage, but when you multiply that by 15 foes each application... that's a lot of damage. I'll throw in a single target attack now again, especially against bosses or mezzers. 6. By the time the cones hit, their ACC is floored. So, no need to softcap this Defender. There are enough quick deaths to provide all the inspirations I need for break frees and a little extra damage now and then. 7. Coning them to death is sufficient for farming, but every other spawn I'll have Blackstar ready to finish them off. The video is from the infamous family farm; it's set for 0+/8x/no bosses solo. Coning them to death. Blackstar |
i rolled a kin/arch a long time ago. was a good idea on the paper. it turned to be horrible
the FS problem
mob.
you need to be literrally in mobs, and you have nothing in the set to prevent the incoming *** kicking you are going to take.
ok you have debuffed their damage, and you got a heal, but at RoA level you will always get hit by one or 2 mezz. and some mob even debuffed can still destroy you in 2 or 3 blow.
the RoA problem
first of all RoA even fully aimed and fulcrumed is not even vear blasters unbuffed level.
S/L damage are resisted by anything, and def cap is simply too low. (i assume that throwing pbu in that would not help at all)
don't even think of eliminating a spawn with your RoA alone.
more than that, the real main problem for me with RoA was the time there is between the moment it aggro the spawn (YOU aggro them) and the time the first arrwos kicks in.
usually mobs will have run toward you when the first damage is dealed, making the mob being outside it's area of effect.
if you add to that the aggro you made with fulcrum , a kin/arch will have terrible problem to find a safe way to do the FS+RoA combo.
for me a dark or a trick arrow / arch would perform almost better. i mean safer, and with pbu , aim and the - res those set can provides; your damage would be almost equal
AND you would have something to ROOT the spawn.
wheiter dark/ or trick/ would be better, i don't know.
the -to hit of dark and the fact ark servant could work as a aggro magnet (that would helps to keep the mob packed) is appealing.
i don't know trick arrow well
well like anyone i know it's horribly annoying glue patch of doom
but concerning how well it could debuff mob to add in safety or in damage dealing i have no clue
as usual, sorry for the bad english, the grammar ... bla bla bla ^^