Suggestion to simplify/liquefy recipe market

NOTE TO THE DEVS: The IO system is great - it really adds a fun dimension of planning and tweaking. The Flashback system, together with the rules for IO Set bonuses make it even more interesting.

The market in most IO set recipes seems quite thin, at least on the villain side. The dilution comes from two sources: (1) the number of IO sets - each offering a different assortment of bonuses, and (2) the availability of each recipe at each combat level. This dilution slows the market down, depriving subscribers of some of the fun to be had playing with this aspect of the game.

So here's a suggestion to get the market moving a bit faster:

(a) consolidate the IO set levels into just three - corresponding to the three levels of invention salvage (Low, Mid and High)
(b) modify the invention Workbench interface to permit the user to choose the combat level of the enhancement to be created at crafting-time, and to pay the influence/infamy price according to that level using the game's current pricing scale (restriction would still apply per the game's current recipe range structure).

A Low-level recipe could thus be used to craft the underlying enhancement at any level from 10 to 25, Mid-level recipes could craft enhancements from 26 to 40, etc.

Since the Low, Mid, and High level ranges are 10-25, 26-40, and 41-53, respectively, this change could increase the market's liquidity by a factor of up to thirteen to sixteen-fold.

I'm interested but skeptical. And want to hear more.

Let's say that in this universe, I get a Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam, level 35. In a parallel universe where your idea was enabled, would I get a "Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam, midlevel"? Or would it be just an "Acc/Dam, Midlevel"?

What if you could obtain a recipe and craft it at any level below the level of the recipe, within the recipe's range? Note: I haven't thought this through in the least, just what popped into my head reading the OP.

Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam 35 --> Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam Mid-level, which you could craft at 35 or any allowed mid-range level, providing you pay the cost.
IO Set bonuses would accrue the same as before.

I don't see any problem with it. It would fix the "hollow market" problem, certainly. One possible tweak is to let the IO be crafted anywhere in its current range (see here) Celerity: Stealth, for instance, overlap all three ranges. Kin Combat overlaps the 10-25 and 25-40 ranges.

We are already close to having something like this, but much worse; almost everything generated is at max level. At one point I tried (and failed) to "corner the market" in something that was rare Pool A or Pool B, and found that there were about as many recipes generated at level 50 as at levels 35-49 COMBINED. Maybe more, I don't remember the details.

This sounds like an interesting idea and something I could give full support to. I do have a couple of questions before I get into vouching for a change like this, though:

1) How would enhancement values work with a system like this? Would the 10-25 range, for example, get enhancement values of the current level 25 IOs? Or would they scale up with your level to a maximum of the current lvl 25 IO value?

2) Irrelevant for me, but as a follow-up questions: what happens with the crafting costs? Do they also scale up with your level or would they have preset values?

3) Also how about exemplaring? I guess you'd have the set bonuses follow the player down to the lowest level of the level range, for example a set of level 41-53 IOs would only apply bonuses down to level 41.

3) Would the recipe levels depend on the enemy you're fighting (like now) or on the level of the player?

As I said, it sounds like a very useful idea and I'd love it if something like this were implemented. It would surely weed out some of the recipes that just never sell (mez IOs of other levels than 50, looking at you...).

My understanding of the idea, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the recipe is of a vague level; when crafting it, you select the desired level and lock it in. So a "Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam recipe" could be turned into a level 35 Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam IO, or a level 30 Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam IO, or whatever, but once crafted it cannot be changed.

Huh. I think this sounds like a fantastic idea. Totally /agree, +1, etc.

I doubt they're willing to change up the system like this, since IOs have been around for what, nearly 3 years now? I really wish they'd thought to do this from the start, though... it's a much simpler, cleaner and simultaneously more robust way to handle both the invention system and the market.

But if they wanna mix things up, this is pretty much the way to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Fulmens is right - under this system,the actual enhancements produced at the crafting table would be identical in all respects to the ones that already exist in the game.

There would be no way to distinguish an enhancement created under this system from one created under the existing system.

All the logic affecting the enhancement's behavior as your toon advances in level or exemplars down would remain the same as it is today.

All of the IO Set bonuses, and the rules covering them would also remain the same.

That's an interesting idea. ^_^

I got a differant read on the OP's suggestion.

My thought is this...do we need 4 differant snipe recipes? I think he was thinking about the variety of choices within the class of IO's availble for that set.

For example...there are 4 Accuracy Debuff "Sets" to choose from, 1.5 seem to have some value associated with them...when the came out with the Accurate Accuracy Debuff expansion set, they only created 2 "Sets" a lower level set and a higher level set.

Maybe if there were less "Set" choices you would see more useful "valued" recipes when the RNG says you get a Snipe ACC/DAM, rather than 1 of 3 possible Snipe ACC/DAM options.

Just my thought.

It would be interesting to see what effects this idea would have on the market for crafted IOs.

Okay, gears up, sits down, grabs the controls of the *HELL NO!* cannon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor_Zorka NOTE TO THE DEVS: The IO system is great - it really adds a fun dimension of planning and tweaking. The Flashback system, together with the rules for IO Set bonuses make it even more interesting. The market in most IO set recipes seems quite thin, at least on the villain side. The dilution comes from two sources: (1) the number of IO sets - each offering a different assortment of bonuses, and (2) the availability of each recipe at each combat level. This dilution slows the market down, depriving subscribers of some of the fun to be had playing with this aspect of the game. So here's a suggestion to get the market moving a bit faster: (a) consolidate the IO set levels into just three - corresponding to the three levels of invention salvage (Low, Mid and High) (b) modify the invention Workbench interface to permit the user to choose the combat level of the enhancement to be created at crafting-time, and to pay the influence/infamy price according to that level using the game's current pricing scale (restriction would still apply per the game's current recipe range structure). A Low-level recipe could thus be used to craft the underlying enhancement at any level from 10 to 25, Mid-level recipes could craft enhancements from 26 to 40, etc. Since the Low, Mid, and High level ranges are 10-25, 26-40, and 41-53, respectively, this change could increase the market's liquidity by a factor of up to thirteen to sixteen-fold.

Hmm. Interesting concept. I'm betting there'd be a programmatic problem with implementing something like this though...

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Arrgh, Hyperstrike. When you've come to expect a very detailed "no" from you and you do this, well, it really isn't good for the balance of the universe.

It is an interesting idea, and it would help redside on many things.

I suppose I did.


I would also like to add one additional thing: A high level recipe that spans all three ranges can be changed into a low-level recipe, at the cost of crafting a high-level recipe. While this may be a little advangeous (LOTGs, Numis, Miracles), it would allow for players to build SK friendly builds a lot easier.

Evilmeister's idea of 'recipe level conversion' might be a way to sidestep the problem of re-programming the workbench interface.

But the workbenches already serve as vendors for Common IO enhancements, so it may be that possessing a generic IO Set recipe (from a drop or the market) would just serve to 'unlock' access to another selection of recipes available for purchase at the bench.

For example: You obtain a mid-level Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam recipe. At the crafting table (which can already read what's in your inventory), when you look at the list of 'owned recipes', it now includes Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam listings from levels 26 to 40. You take your pick and pay the fee. The result is you get the enhancement, the generic recipe disappears from your inventory and the Kinetic Combat Acc/Dam category no longer appears in the list of owned recipes.

completely in favor of this. I love playing around with builds to side kick or exemplar to lower levels. but it is getting almost impossible to find recipes other than at their highest level.

try to put together a build with level 33 or level 32 IOs, it's next to impossible at any cost. I would be more than willing to pay the full level 50 price to create a level 33 Obliteration.

the best option I have found thus far is to freeze characters at the desired level and then run nothing but AE or flashback missions to get tickets to take random rolls. I would much rather be playing characters to level up but the first 35 levels go by so much quicker now, there's no way to get recipes I want before I outlevel them.

doing something like this would be the best enhancement since, well - since the idea of IOs

Kendo: it's not a very good workaround but you're welcome to join us.