On my inv/ss, the only AVs or GMs that take special tactic or preparation are Ghost Widow or Recluse on the STF. Oh, and Mother Mayhem and the Clockwork King since their psi attacks cut me to the bone.
For most AVs I just straight up tank -- jump in, get in their face, punch them and call them dirty names. For psi powers or the STF, you need to have capped defense. Invulnerable can be capped to smash/lethal easily enough but GW and Recluse also use a lot of negative energy and energy attacks. So you're better off going with positional defense with friend buffs, defense inspirations, and accolades.
I don't find that Romulus is particularly damaging to my tank. He's obnoxious because of his clouds of doom. You can neutralize them by having someone taunt them away, overpower the heals with brute force and debuffs, or pull Romulus up to the rooftop and keep the fluffies down with any -fly powers.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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If I recall correctly, the Inv/SS is capped to smash/lethal and gets there quickly to melee with one purp inspiration. She can handle Rommy no problem (the one I've tried so far). The rooftop tactic is something I'll try next time. The particular team I was on that time wasn't focusing on him so he took forever to take down. Not sure that was my fault. |
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
On my inv/ss, the only AVs or GMs that take special tactic or preparation are Ghost Widow or Recluse on the STF. Oh, and Mother Mayhem and the Clockwork King since their psi attacks cut me to the bone.
For most AVs I just straight up tank -- jump in, get in their face, punch them and call them dirty names. For psi powers or the STF, you need to have capped defense. Invulnerable can be capped to smash/lethal easily enough but GW and Recluse also use a lot of negative energy and energy attacks. So you're better off going with positional defense with friend buffs, defense inspirations, and accolades. I don't find that Romulus is particularly damaging to my tank. He's obnoxious because of his clouds of doom. You can neutralize them by having someone taunt them away, overpower the heals with brute force and debuffs, or pull Romulus up to the rooftop and keep the fluffies down with any -fly powers. |
I just can't forget one I ran months ago when the Tanker managed to pull Rommy without his helpers. I thought it was an aggro cap thing. That one went smooth.
Taking Rommy down is a lot easier if you separate him from his fluffies. Some use a second tank to taunt while another tank takes on Rommy. I've heard about the rooftop tactic, but never used it. I typically draw Rommy to the left patch of grass from the platform. There are walls to run behind when he rezzes, it's sometimes easier to separate the fluffies, and I think it also cuts down on the ambushes. Really, that's what the rooftop tactic does, as well.
For LR, I strongly suggest popping a purple prior to charging in. That may seem so simple that it doesn't need to be said, but I've seen tanks face-plant because their defenses were in walk-around mode and not in combat mode. Do this: Open up Combat Attributes and look at your defenses. Then, enter a simple combat (mob in PI, for example). Notice the difference in the defense per cents. Have a full tray of purples before heading in.
For GW, like all the AVs, turn her from the party so they attack her back. Have an Emp (if your STF rolls with one), stack Clear Minds on you as fast as they can cast em.
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I think you're confusing Invul's levels of resistance with defense; it starts with exactly the same amount of defense to E/NE damage as it does to S/L. Most players concentrate on increasing S/L defense first when slotting for defense bonuses, but it's no harder to soft-cap E/NE than it is S/L. As a matter of fact, a well-built Invul tank can soft-cap both S/L and E/NE defense; F/C usually lags behind, but that's more because it's a low priority than any inherent difficulty in soft-capping it.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
For most AVs I just straight up tank -- jump in, get in their face, punch them and call them dirty names. For psi powers or the STF, you need to have capped defense. Invulnerable can be capped to smash/lethal easily enough but GW and Recluse also use a lot of negative energy and energy attacks. So you're better off going with positional defense with friend buffs, defense inspirations, and accolades.
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IMO, intentionally slotting for positional defense on an Invul tank when it already has substantial amounts of typed defense to everything but Psi is a waste of influence and plays against Invul's strengths.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
I don't recall all the specific buffs each tower gives Recluse in the STF (it's a good idea to know them at the start, so you can take them out in good order... the ones that buff his to-hit, damage, and defense are big priorities), but at the start, you want your Tank to turn off any damage aura (he might summon a bunch of bane spiders if you leave it on), and get to about 75% defense and resists- that's how much his attacks can do with those towers up. So that means bringing inspirations and having someone support you.
Even at those levels, Recluse will still tag you sometimes, and he hits hard. Even with my Fiery Aura tank that had his heal recharging every 20 seconds, I was glad I had someone there healing me. At any rate, don't take any risks with your health... put it back to 100% ASAP when he hits you. Once you have most (if not all, depending on what your team needs) of the towers down, it helps to move Recluse to a corner of the map, as he'll summon banes when you start injuring him, and this gets them all clumped for the rest of your team to drop easily via AOEs (and for you to draw their aggro).
Fighting the patrons is always a little hit or miss. Hopefully you can just draw one, but if not, you should prioritize. Black Scorpion is usually left for last, as he's not quite as bad/dangerous. Scirocco has some annoying AOEs, so keep him focused on you and pointed away from your team. Ghost Widow... eh, different methodologies. If you have someone that can buff your mez resistance, have them keep it at the point where she can't hold you to death (if the hold does land, your shields mean nothing and the hold does a LOT of damage). If you don't have that, bring a lot of break frees to keep that up while she's attacking you. Having good defense is also a good idea to dodge that. You also have to look out for her heal, which she hits you with. Keeping most of your team at range helps there, and I believe the heal has a to-hit check, so keeping defenses up helps yet again.
Fun challenge, the STF. Also, don't forget to get your resists up when fighting Dr. Aeon in the second to last mission. In this incarnation, he actually hits really hard, and you don't want to faceplant against him (heh, my Fiery Aura tank died against him because we aggroed him unprepared, while my tank was never in serious danger while fighting the patrons or Recluse).
You've got enough feedback on the ITF, I think. Know your teams abilities... most people get buffers/debuffers for the ITF so you can just bumrush Rommy at the end, but separating him does work, as mentioned. If all else fails, you can oftentimes attack one of his fluffies from long range and kill it (don't get in his aggro range for this trick). When it dies, he'll come after you, but you can ditch him and repeat.
For the Dr. Kahn TF, defense is a good idea while fighting the Reichsman, as he has his one power that can hold you if you're not careful. After that, he can do enough damage to drop you since your shields are down. Also have a good plan for taking on the other AVs that come in periodically, as it usually helps a bit to keep them separate from Reichsman. That one is a lot less complex, though... it's more important to have enough buffs and debuffs to overcome his regen, massive HPs, and Unstoppable. Ugh. First time I ran that one, it took us 45 minutes to drop him, as we didn't have quite enough to hurt him quickly (it was the first day or two after the TF came out... it's much easier now that we know how to handle him better).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
A person in my SG suggested a scrapper get the glowie from the Tree to use against Dr Aeon, figuring the tank will have enough on the plate.
Good point about Scirocco. Those AoEs can drop squishies, so keep them at a distance. When I first did the STF, the tank parked at a corner on the long platform and the squishies stayed behind the red line on the ground.
By accident, of sorts, we drew two AVs back to the hospital boat. We were looking to draw one, but at max two. More came along, so we bailed for the boat. BS and then Scirocco came to the boat. Battling them there was easier, since we had additional damage picking away at them (boat crew and guns).
I've heard the Blue tower is the most skippable.
I also heard the Geas is useful against Mako, but I've seen him dropped without it.
Can someone confirm that GW's heal is a front/cone?
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I'm big on the little purple pills. All my toons use them to good effect. I've had many people ask me how I survive the computer kill in the 3rd ITF mission while the rest of the team faceplants. It's the magic pills! |
Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
For LR, I strongly suggest popping a purple prior to charging in. That may seem so simple that it doesn't need to be said, but I've seen tanks face-plant because their defenses were in walk-around mode and not in combat mode. Do this: Open up Combat Attributes and look at your defenses. Then, enter a simple combat (mob in PI, for example). Notice the difference in the defense per cents. Have a full tray of purples before heading in.
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All you need is good timing.Quote:
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
I think you're confusing Invul's levels of resistance with defense; it starts with exactly the same amount of defense to E/NE damage as it does to S/L. Most players concentrate on increasing S/L defense first when slotting for defense bonuses, but it's no harder to soft-cap E/NE than it is S/L. As a matter of fact, a well-built Invul tank can soft-cap both S/L and E/NE defense; F/C usually lags behind, but that's more because it's a low priority than any inherent difficulty in soft-capping it.
IMO, intentionally slotting for positional defense on an Invul tank when it already has substantial amounts of typed defense to everything but Psi is a waste of influence and plays against Invul's strengths. |
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Even at those levels, Recluse will still tag you sometimes, and he hits hard. Even with my Fiery Aura tank that had his heal recharging every 20 seconds, I was glad I had someone there healing me. At any rate, don't take any risks with your health... put it back to 100% ASAP when he hits you. Once you have most (if not all, depending on what your team needs) of the towers down, it helps to move Recluse to a corner of the map, as he'll summon banes when you start injuring him, and this gets them all clumped for the rest of your team to drop easily via AOEs (and for you to draw their aggro).
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Ghost Widow... eh, different methodologies. If you have someone that can buff your mez resistance, have them keep it at the point where she can't hold you to death (if the hold does land, your shields mean nothing and the hold does a LOT of damage). If you don't have that, bring a lot of break frees to keep that up while she's attacking you. Having good defense is also a good idea to dodge that. You also have to look out for her heal, which she hits you with. Keeping most of your team at range helps there, and I believe the heal has a to-hit check, so keeping defenses up helps yet again.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Fun challenge, the STF. Also, don't forget to get your resists up when fighting Dr. Aeon in the second to last mission. In this incarnation, he actually hits really hard, and you don't want to faceplant against him (heh, my Fiery Aura tank died against him because we aggroed him unprepared, while my tank was never in serious danger while fighting the patrons or Recluse).
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
You've got enough feedback on the ITF, I think. Know your teams abilities... most people get buffers/debuffers for the ITF so you can just bumrush Rommy at the end, but separating him does work, as mentioned. If all else fails, you can oftentimes attack one of his fluffies from long range and kill it (don't get in his aggro range for this trick). When it dies, he'll come after you, but you can ditch him and repeat.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
For the Dr. Kahn TF, defense is a good idea while fighting the Reichsman, as he has his one power that can hold you if you're not careful. After that, he can do enough damage to drop you since your shields are down. Also have a good plan for taking on the other AVs that come in periodically, as it usually helps a bit to keep them separate from Reichsman. That one is a lot less complex, though... it's more important to have enough buffs and debuffs to overcome his regen, massive HPs, and Unstoppable. Ugh. First time I ran that one, it took us 45 minutes to drop him, as we didn't have quite enough to hurt him quickly (it was the first day or two after the TF came out... it's much easier now that we know how to handle him better).
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Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
A person in my SG suggested a scrapper get the glowie from the Tree to use against Dr Aeon, figuring the tank will have enough on the plate.
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Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
By accident, of sorts, we drew two AVs back to the hospital boat. We were looking to draw one, but at max two. More came along, so we bailed for the boat. BS and then Scirocco came to the boat. Battling them there was easier, since we had additional damage picking away at them (boat crew and guns).
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Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
Can someone confirm that GW's heal is a front/cone?
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I wouldn't say it's exactly slow. He has capped recharge while the Blue Tower is up (and +30% bonus to ToHit on top of AV and +4 level modifiers to accuracy). That said, if you have a decent build and proper support on the team, it shouldn't be hard to tank him, either with hovering or not being a wuss|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
I heard that LR only has one ranged attack that recharges slowly...so staying at range via a jet-pack would increase survivability there. True? If that's true I would feel comfortable bringing my poor old Fire Tanker.
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. Should be noted that since most Kinetics probably don't know about it, if you have one on the team and they have Increase Density, have them keep it up on you--it's a very large Energy/Smashing Resistance buff, both of which are favorites of the Patrons and Recluse.Quote:
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Ghost Widow however....hmmm...
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It's fairly easy to tell when she's going to hold you if you watch for the signature animation and notice a black icon on your buff bar appear. If you're fast enough, you can pop Unstoppable and survive the hold. This is, of course, assuming you don't have a competent Sonic, Kinetics, or Empath on your team to beat her hold's magnitude.
If your group is reliably competent or they're your regular teaming friends or whatever and can handle taking on all four Patrons at once, the order is thus: GW-> Scirrocco -> Mako -> Crabspider Webmaster -> BS. GW for her auto-gank, then Scirrocco because he likes to spam huge AoEs and drain endurance. The other two don't really matter but because you have to take them down regardless, Mako is more annoying for his gigantic cones and defense (another one to keep facing the other way from the team). He also suffers from "Oooh, Shiny!" syndrome and will sometimes run away at random.
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| I heard of a trick with Rommy that would allow you to get to the aggro cap and pull him without his babysitters. True? |
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Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
I've heard the Blue tower is the most skippable.
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Otherwise, the preferred order:
1) Red: Damage/Resistance
2) Blue: ToHit/Recharge
3) Orange: Defense/Special
4) Green: +HP/Regen/Heal
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| Can someone confirm that GW's heal is a front/cone? |
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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I've used it a couple times. If you can separate the nictus successfully (-fly, etc), it works pretty good. Just watch out for the ambushes.|
Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
I've heard about the rooftop tactic, but never used it. Really, that's what the rooftop tactic does, as well.
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A couple things that can go wrong.
1: You don't separate the nictus. You CAN overpower their heals, but it takes for freakin' ever! And throwing down that much firepower for that long can leave your team drained. Having to do it multiple times until he's really most sincerely dead is aggravating.
2: You separate Rommy from his nictus too much and he perma-dies, leaving you to fight the three nictus. Especially if you have a high-level taunt-tank, you run into the problem of the three overlapping each other and being damn near inseparable, which then makes killing them an absolute BEAST.
If either of these happens, tell your MM's to ditch their pets IMMEDIATELY. All they do is provide nictus fodder and make your job harder.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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lol...|
Originally Posted by LostHalo
I wouldn't say it's exactly slow. He has capped recharge while the Blue Tower is up (and +30% bonus to ToHit on top of AV and +4 level modifiers to accuracy). That said, if you have a decent build and proper support on the team, it shouldn't be hard to tank him, either with hovering or not being a wuss
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I'll worry about my ego when I know I won't get the team killed or epic fail the TF.
Until then, I'm willing to wuss-out. So I'm getting here that hovering will eliminate his melee attacks?Quote:
| It's fairly easy to tell when she's going to hold you if you watch for the signature animation and notice a black icon on your buff bar appear. If you're fast enough, you can pop Unstoppable and survive the hold. |
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| Mako is more annoying for his gigantic cones and defense (another one to keep facing the other way from the team). He also suffers from "Oooh, Shiny!" syndrome and will sometimes run away at random. |
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Something to keep in mind, that group makeup will have a significant influence on which tactics you'll want to employ, and how successful they are. Some things to be aware of:|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
But any tips? In particular methods for Rommy at the end of the ITF and the STF.
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- Statesman Task Force
- Dr. Aeon - Hits hard (smashing/energy) and summons ~7 adds. If you defeat the adds, Aeon will just summon more, so make sure the group just focuses on killing Aeon. He also has an shield that will make him immune to everything. The power from the Thorn Tree drops the shield. My suggestion is to jump next to Aeon and Taunt. After he does the MoG animation and summons his minions, then hit him with the temp power. If you hit him with the temp before he puts the shield up, it will have no effect. (I failed an MSTF once because I decided to use the temp power then Taunt. Result was I blew the temp power's cooldown, taunted him while he was immune, and he ate half the team. Sadness.)
- Black Scorpion - The least meddling of all the Patrons. He only has two powers worthy of note (both broken). First, he has Rage which allows him to hit through the softcap. It's broken because he will not recast it if he's being hit freqently enough (on a team, this isn't hard to do). He also has Taunt, but as far as I can tell it does nothing to PCs. Tank and spank.
- Mako - Also not terribly threatening to Tanks, but he is a bit slippery.
- Notable powers:
- Placate - This will prevent you from being able to target him. Keep him Taunted and use AoEs if this lands. Usually not a big deal, but good to know he has it.
- Elude - This has a 30s duration and 75s rech, or down for 45s after it drops. Tohit buffs are helpful for killing him through this, but not a requirement if your team has high enough dps to make headway while it's down.
- Bellow - PB AoE nuke (energy) when he gets to low health.
- Scirocco - Easily the second most dangerous patron. Exotic damage, debuffs, aoes, he has it all. Thankfully, unlike other Patrons, he doesn't have any major defensive abilities, so he is a pretty quick kill. Still, while he is alive, treat him with caution.
- Notable powers:
- EM PUlse - Large PBAoE damage, hold, end drain, and regen debuff (2000% base, ~2880% from the purple patch). This is dangerous to both you and your team. I strongly suggest you keep your energy defense up to avoid it, and your team stays as far away as possible.
- Dust Devils - The are basically personalized Tornadoes. They deal damage, debuff def, and are autohit. I strongly suggest you monitor your defense and be ready to pop purples when he summons these - especially if you're relying on def while Tanking (such as your Invuln or buffed by Colds/FF/etc on the Fire).
- Misc AoEs/Cones - Aside from EM Pulse, he also has Desert Wind and Static Discharge, both fairly sizable cones. While you'll be hit by them anyways, make sure you point him away from the team. Worst thing that can happen is a team mate gets hit by EM Pulse (hold) then slammed by one of these two.
- Ghost Widow - Aside from her hold, she really isn't a threat by herself. She is more of a control (messing up your rythm) / hard to kill AV.
- Notable powers:
- Soul Storm - This is a MAG100 (not a typo) aoe hold that deals significant damage. It can one shot a Tank without +hp (or outside res buffs / dmg debuffs). The main thing you should do to combat this is keep your def softcapped at 45% to lower the chance of it hitting. (Others in melee range should do the same.) If you have a teammate that can give you status protection (Emp\CM, Therm\Thaw, Kin\ID, Sonic\Clarity), have them stack it until you have >MAG100 hold protection. You can beat her without it, but it's very nice to have. (I wouldn't bother with breakfrees. It would take roughly half an insp tray to break it once. The space would be much better served with purples.)
- Dark Regen - PBAoE heal that gives her more health per target hit. Again, the best solution is just to sit at the neg energy soft cap and prevent it from hitting. (Same goes for all characters in melee range.) If meleers have that much defense, they do not need to be afraid of being in melee from her heal.
- Black Hole - This is a cage power. If it hits you, you'll have 30s of being unable to do anything. For this reason, I suggest you Taunt early and often. You can keep her attention through it, but you do have to work at it. Again, best way to avoid this is 45% neg en def. (Breakfrees do not work.)
- Fearsome Stare - This is a cone fear power. The main reason I list it is so you know that a breakfree or two may not be a bad idea to get around this power. It is a cone, so keep GW pointed away from your allies. (This is good practice for any AV, though!)
- Lord Recluse - The big man himself. I'll split this into two section, Towers and Powers.
- Towers
- Red Tower - +100% dmg, +100% smash/lethal/energy res (Recluse is immune to that damage while it's up), +knockback. This is generally the first candidate for being dropped. One of his melee attack will deal ~5800 damage before resists while it is up. Unless you have a special team makeup, you won't deal much damage while it's up either. Try to have a good chunk of res to s/l while it's up; 70%+ is the target preferable. (Energy is nice too, but Recluse is mostly s/l in melee range.)
- Blue Tower - +30% tohit, +recharge (capped), +runspeed. While this tower is up, you'll need 75% def to keep him floored. If you cannot hit 70%+ res, get 75% def first. This is the most easily skipped tower, but don't be shy of taking it down until you're comfortable with the encounter. If you do skip taking it down, his "purple dawn" will be far more intense.
- Orange/Yellow Tower - +200% def, +status protection. Basically, trying to hit him while this tower is up is a pretty pointless effort. Just use Taunt. :P
- Green Tower - +maxhp (to the cap), +regen (capped), periodic heal. Pretty much another purely defensive tower. You must destroy it to kill him.
- Notable powers
- Summon Bane Spiders - Recluse will periodically summon a lvl54 Bane boss to help him. Like with Black Scorpion, his AI can be bugged if you have an effect hitting him frequenly enough. Have a defender/controller drop an anchored debuff on him (Rad Infection, Snow Storm, etc), and he'll pretty much never summon.
- Channel Gun - This is his long range (110 ft/yard? forgot the unit of measurement used) attack. It is one of his few energy attacks, and it comes with an extremely nasty end drain/recovery (200% base, ~288% post purple patch) debuff. He can shoot this very fast (4s base rech, ~0.8s with the Blue Tower up), so it will eventually hit you. Whether you'd rather deal with Recluse's melee damage or try to range him is up to you. (Imo, Invuln would work better in melee, Fire you may want to experiment with.)
- Slice / Arm Lash - Attacks where Recluse uses his spider legs. They deal lethal/toxic damage and debuff defense. Be sure to be monitoring your defense and be ready to eat additional purples to compensate for this.
- Energy Punch (Jab animation) - This isn't a terribly scary attack, but keep in mind it does apply a fairly long lasting stun. If it lands four times in a row, it will break Tanker status protection. (If you see the icons stacking, soft cap to 75% if the Blue Tower is up, 45% if down to prevent it from stacking 4 times).
- Summon Army - This is the "purple dawn" I alluded to. At around 25% health, he will start to spawn waves upon waves of Banes. The best thing to do for this is to drag Recluse to a corner (pointed away from the team) and use your AoEs. Also, teammates with repel/knockdown/knockback effects should use them to keep the banes bunched up in the corner during the last 25%.
What I do (WP Tank) during the fight is to jump over Recluse's head while Taunting, then run behind one of his pillars. He'll be out of LOS and run to melee. (Another benefit of this is teammates can give you inspirations from the other side of a pillar while being safe from Recluse's AoEs.) I put Taunt on auto while monitoring my defense / managing inspirations. When the last tower is getting low on life, I pull him to the corner for the kill.
Hmm, I think that's just about everything, but it's likely I missed something while working on this post on and off for a couple hours between tasks at work.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
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It wasn't an intentional "pull." We ran. They chased.|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
I suggested something like that a few months back on a team that just couldn't take the AV's down. I was told at the time they wouldn't pull that far. Interesting.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
There is also a method I call "chicken yard" but I refuse to elaborate on it because I hate it with a fiery ******* passion from hades.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
She has three, none of which are a cone. And on another note, I have no idea who started this myth but I wish they would stop repeating it.
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No, sir, I am not confusing defense with resistance. I was not talking about slotting for positional defense, I was talking about aquiring it through outside buffs. And while you can soft cap both, soft capping just S/L is terribly easy and fairly cheap to do
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
I think you're confusing Invul's levels of resistance with defense; it starts with exactly the same amount of defense to E/NE damage as it does to S/L. Most players concentrate on increasing S/L defense first when slotting for defense bonuses, but it's no harder to soft-cap E/NE than it is S/L. As a matter of fact, a well-built Invul tank can soft-cap both S/L and E/NE defense; F/C usually lags behind, but that's more because it's a low priority than any inherent difficulty in soft-capping it.
IMO, intentionally slotting for positional defense on an Invul tank when it already has substantial amounts of typed defense to everything but Psi is a waste of influence and plays against Invul's strengths. |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Just for the record, I'm not a 'sir'.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
No, sir, I am not confusing defense with resistance. I was not talking about slotting for positional defense, I was talking about aquiring it through outside buffs. And while you can soft cap both, soft capping just S/L is terribly easy and fairly cheap to do
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I disagree that soft-capping S/L is easier than E/NE; in some cases it is more difficult. It's mostly dependent on secondary, those like SS and EM that have mostly ST attacks will find it easier to soft-cap S/L than E/NE. Secondaries with many PBAoE attacks like Fire, Mace and Axe will find it easier to soft-cap E/NE.
Expense is a whole 'nother issue. If you've got enough ST attacks that you can slot several sets of Smashing Haymaker, yes, soft-capping S/L is fairly cheap. If you have few ST attacks and have to slot Kinetic Combat to soft-cap S/L, you'll spend much more than you would using Erads and BotZ to soft-cap E/NE.
And I still don't know why you'd go looking for positional defense from outside buffs. Defense inspirations buff both typed and positional AFAIK, and if you had a choice of typed or positional buffs, typed would always be better since they would stack with Invul's existing defense.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Sorry, ma'am, I didn't know so I assumed you were a "sir." I was thinking about Inv/SS which is what the OP mentioned and what I have most experience with. I did not consider the other secondaries at all. And finally, I consider inspirations an outside buff since it is not a part of your build. That's why I said:
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But I get your point. Invincibilty and tough hide give typed defense so it's better to build on those strengths. Fair enough. I agree.
| So you're better off going with positional defense with friend buffs, defense inspirations, and accolades. |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Tell that to my commanding officer in Korea. You call her "ma'am" in an official setting and you were up for extra duty.|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
Just for the record, I'm not a 'sir'.
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And no, she wasn't a HeroCon Cougar...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Not a problem, it's not like you had any way of knowing. On the rare occasions it comes up in the forums it just seems weird to let someone believe something that isn't true.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Sorry, ma'am, I didn't know so I assumed you were a "sir."
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| But I get your point. Invincibilty and tough hide give typed defense so it's better to build on those strengths. Fair enough. I agree |
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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Take your Firetank to everything. The day you've worked out how Firetanks can to do it ALL is the day I hope you can show some gaming spirit and leave people to work things out for themselves. It's alright knowing half the game to get by, but the day everyone is without challenges is the day the community disappear.
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Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
Hola tankers!
I've just dusted off a couple of my old Tankers. (Inv/SS, Fire/Fire) I want to do the usual lvl 50 stuff with them but am a bit wary of the lvl 50 TF's. I've run them all many times with Blasters, Scrappers, a Defender, and multiple Controllers so I have a general idea. But any tips? In particular methods for Rommy at the end of the ITF and the STF. I heard that LR only has one ranged attack that recharges slowly...so staying at range via a jet-pack would increase survivability there. True? If that's true I would feel comfortable bringing my poor old Fire Tanker. Ghost Widow however....hmmm...I heard of a trick with Rommy that would allow you to get to the aggro cap and pull him without his babysitters. True? Any tips would be appreciated. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Thanks! That's worth printing out and keeping close at hand during the TF. Matter of fact, this whole thread is a keeper. |
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Buncha kewl stuff
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I get you. Just the fact that I don't know Tanking as well as other AT's stokes the desire to play. |
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Take your Firetank to everything. The day you've worked out how Firetanks can to do it ALL is the day I hope you can show some gaming spirit and leave people to work things out for themselves. It's alright knowing half the game to get by, but the day everyone is without challenges is the day the community disappear.
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However, with Tanking, learning on the job often means you are making other players unhappy. A failed STF is a big deal to some. That prospect bothers me.
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Nobodies perfect, people make mistakes, sometimes the blame is on someone by someone who deserves the blame.|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
I get you. Just the fact that I don't know Tanking as well as other AT's stokes the desire to play.
However, with Tanking, learning on the job often means you are making other players unhappy. A failed STF is a big deal to some. That prospect bothers me. |
I don't get the blame game, I will say something fast and so, in noteform, plain and simple, rather than a diplomatic letter written in blood with a royal seal of approval, to someone who I think who could be doing something but then that justs gets classed as pointing the finger but if anyone knows me I am used to giving and recieving constructive criticism.
One way you may play with one team is classed as genius because the team can run with it might get classed as completely dumb in another team because they're not all doing their job and they don't even know it.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Dont sweat folks barking about bad tanking. If theyre experienced, theyve likely tanked in the past and know that its . . . how can I put it? You have to feel out the group to figure what style they prefer.
Ive been with a SG that practically mandated a mechanical approach to clearing rooms, using herding. The result is a slower paced game, but players learned their roles in groups at a quicker pace.
Ive been in groups that like the tanks to engage, take the alpha strike, stick around for a few rounds of damage, then move to get the next group of bad guys ready. Quicker pace, but chaotic and some folks complain about others stepping on their AoE toes (for example).
Be honest with the group. Im new to tanking. Patience is appreciated. If I hear that, I may send tells for advice, but I usually let experience be a good guide. And most folks will be patient and supportive.
Ive tutored new players on tanking. New, meaning new to the game. They tend to think tank=heavy duty damage (I did, at one point). I load my main tank, Sgt Fallujah, and take them on a tutorial, of sorts, showing how to gather aggro, face the enemies away from the group, use the environment (in terms of line of sight and walls/knockback), etc.
Hola tankers!
Ghost Widow however....hmmm...
I've just dusted off a couple of my old Tankers. (Inv/SS, Fire/Fire) I want to do the usual lvl 50 stuff with them but am a bit wary of the lvl 50 TF's. I've run them all many times with Blasters, Scrappers, a Defender, and multiple Controllers so I have a general idea.
But any tips? In particular methods for Rommy at the end of the ITF and the STF.
I heard that LR only has one ranged attack that recharges slowly...so staying at range via a jet-pack would increase survivability there. True? If that's true I would feel comfortable bringing my poor old Fire Tanker.
I heard of a trick with Rommy that would allow you to get to the aggro cap and pull him without his babysitters. True?
Any tips would be appreciated.