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Shields, Willpower, and Invulnerability are all reasonably good primaries, relatively friendly to new players. |
Originally Posted by Z Chain
All of my past chars have been range-oriented... blaster, defender, mastermind. I want to take a whack at tanking, but I have absolutely no clue about what is most important to look for in a build for any melee character. I know there are tons of guides out there, but can anyone recommend a simple/easy tank powerset? At first I wanted to do fire/?, but that got some mediocre reviews.
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Willpower is probably the most straightforward and easiest to level, but it does make managing aggro of large spawns harder than some others.
Invulnerability is also fairly straightforward, but you are going to want to postpone some of the passive defensive powers until later in the build.
Shields is also quite straightforward, high concept, and fun. Like most defense based sets, it will take a while for it to become really tough.
For secondaries, I'm fond of Dark Melee, Electric Melee, Mace, Axe, and Super Strength. Some favorite combos:
Shield/Electric
Inv/SS
Inv/Dark Melee
Ice/Mace
Fire/Axe
WP/Fire
WP/Electric
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Personally, I'm a huge fan of WP/SS. For the most part willpower is an inactive primary focusing mostly on toggles for defense. And super strength is a lot of fun as a secondary especially if you like the HULK SMASH type of gameplay associated with it.
However, don't be turned off to a powerset or AT because someone else told you it performs below that of other sets. Fire doesn't have the defense of some sets but it can still do anything. That said since it's "weaker" in terms of defense it may not be the best set to start with if you've never played a melee toon but who cares... learn as you go 
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
For an easy to hold aggro and survivable first tanker it's hard to go wrong with an Invulnerability tank, a mature IO build is second only to Granite Armor in durability and it doesn't have any drawbacks.
Shield's another good choice, but since it's a defense character it'll take a bit for it to mature... you won't really feel like a tank until the mid-20's or later. Once it matures it's great, but it's slower starting than Invuln.
WP gets a lot of recommendation, but I can't really suggest it for a first tanker due to the difficulty in holding aggro. WP has by far the weakest taunt aura of all tankers... it's 1.25 seconds base duration compared to Invuln's 16.9 second base duration.
As far as secondaries go most of them work nicely; I've played /Stone Melee, Fire Melee & EM to 50 myself... frankly I wouldn't choose /EM again. Mace has had a recent buff and apparently is very nice nowadays.
If you do decide to go with Invuln, please check out my guide to the first 20 levels in my signature... it'll help you past the early mistakes lots of players seem to make.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Ice Stone.. great defense, self heal, hibernate is a great oh crap power, handles aggro easily, Stone give goot mitigation with Fault and Tremor... its a very good combo.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Fire is great if 1) you really want to focus on damage and 2) you're not going to try to tank big nasty enemies for a full team. I'm not saying a fire tank can't do it, but probably not when in the hands of someone with no tank experience.|
Originally Posted by Z Chain
I know there are tons of guides out there, but can anyone recommend a simple/easy tank powerset? At first I wanted to do fire/?, but that got some mediocre reviews.
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I've played Invuln, Fire, Ice, Shield, Dark, and Willpower in that order. The Willpower tank is 29. The others are all 50. Let me be clear up front, I have not been disappointed with ANY armor set so far - keeping in mind that I had some idea in advance what each one was 'best' for.
Of the sets I have played, for a first-time tank player, I would recommend without hesitation Invuln, Ice, Shield or Willpower. If I had to list them in order of 'newb friendly' and simple/easy.... hmm..... actually, that's really tough. Let me make some comments on each:
Invuln - 'Classic' tank set, in my opinion. This is primarily a resistance set, but also has considerable defense (many call it a 'blended set'). It can be a little discouraging early on, as you'll feel kind of squishy before level 22 (i.e. when you get SO's). At higher levels, and with a little fine tuning, can be incredibly tough.
Ice and Shield - These are both primarily defense sets: ice is typed defense (smashing, fire, energy, etc) while shield is positional defense (melee, range, AoE). Both start to feel 'tanky' earlier than invuln. (Really, after invuln, I was surprised how effective these sets were while playing through the Hollows - level 5-15.) Ice is a little more 'clicky' and you need the click powers for your survival, but I feel they give you more options in battle. I think shield is a bit more durable to start with, but you have less options to fall back on.
Willpower - Only level 29 so far but very pleased with the set. WP has some resistance and some defense but what it really focuses on is regeneration. The more enemies around you, the faster you heal. If you take this set, note that it has a +regeneration power that is better than Health and a +recovery power that is better than Stamina. This gives you the option of skipping the Fitness pool and finding 3 other powers to take. Many people take Fitness anyway - and make no mistake, the extra healing and recovery are a big benefit - but you have the OPTION to skip it.
Some random comments:
If the way the character looks is a factor, take Shield.
I think it's the best LOOKING of the four. There are lots of shield options and you can add more by unlocking them (the really cool ones are available at level 35).You say you're new to melee in general. Maybe a scrapper would be a better first melee toon.
Getting ahead of the 'Taunt argument'. Some people will say you don't need Taunt. Some people will say you can't be a good tank without Taunt. BOTH are wrong (and also stupid for making such sweeping statements). I've taken tanks to 50 both WITH and WITHOUT Taunt. My advice to you, since this is your FIRST tank, take Taunt and try it out. Decide FOR YOURSELF if you like it or need it. You can always respec out of it later or decide differently for your next tank.
Seriously, though, these 4 sets are all really good. If you want to focus on the 'simple' aspect, Willpower is probably the simplest. Shield has the status protection as a click, but you can set it to auto-fire. Invuln has Dull Pain, but it's a really good click power (massive heal). Ice might be the least 'new player friendly' of the four.
Edit: I notice Heraclea said, "Shields is also quite straightforward, high concept, and fun." Don't underestimate that fun part. Find someone with a shield tank and ask them to demonstrate the power Shield Charge for you. The most fun power in any armor set, in my opinion.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
The "worst" thing about Fire Armor is that you get no inherent knockback or immobilization protection, so you either have to take extra powers (Combat Jumping / Acrobatics) or plan out IO bonuses to compensate.|
Originally Posted by Z Chain
All of my past chars have been range-oriented... blaster, defender, mastermind. I want to take a whack at tanking, but I have absolutely no clue about what is most important to look for in a build for any melee character. I know there are tons of guides out there, but can anyone recommend a simple/easy tank powerset? At first I wanted to do fire/?, but that got some mediocre reviews.
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To be a good melee dude, you need to be able to stay on your feet long enough to defeat whatever's hitting you back. To be an excellent Tank, you need to be able to take all the damage of up to 17 critters attacking you instead of your teammates. There's three paths to this:
Resist the damage (ex: you get hit for 100 damage but only take 30 damage) :
Dark Armor
Electric Armor
Fiery Armor
Invulnerability
Stone Armor
Avoid the damage (Defense, they don't hit you):
Ice Armor
Shield Defense (mix of Def + a Resist tier 9)
Heal back the damage:
Willpower
(Note: All the sets except Willpower get a click heal of some sort, Shield's being in the Tier 9)
Caveats:
Dark and Fiery Armor have no KB protection; Fire's immob protection comes in Burn at 18.
Electric Armor has no KB protection when you're not standing on the ground (this can include staircases).
Shield has no status protection at all when Active Defense isn't recharged.
Stone Armor gets massive status protection in exchange for mobility, recharge, and damage.
Invulnerability can get maxed-out defense to most damage on top of being incredibly damage resistant, and it makes you stronger the more baddies surround you, so that's a big plus.
Willpower makes you heal faster the more baddies surround you, with a big Resist-based Tier 9, so is super easy to play.
I'd agree that Willpower matures the earliest, being fully functional by 12 with Quick Recovery, full status protection, some damage resistance, and some healing already in effect. SOs / IOs only make it better.
Resistance-based sets get tough soon after, but often need Stamina if you want to attack with toggles up.
Defense sets mature last, needing SO/IO level enhancements to get defense % up to snuff.
The other thing that keeps you alive is mitigation - when your armors or attacks prevent the baddies from attacking back.
Dark Armor has Cloak of Fear, Oppressive Gloom, and Soul Drain
Fiery Armor has Burn
Electric Armor has Power Sink (endurance drain)
Ice Armor has Chilling Embrace (slow, -damage)
Shield has Shield Charge
Stone has Mud Pots
Willpower has Rise to the Challenge (debuffs foe ToHit)
Each of the attack sets except Fire Melee has a mitigating secondary effect, either knockdown, knockback, -ToHit, stun, slow, etc.
So you can either decide what you want your character to look/act like and then pick sets that match, or pick devastating & long-lasting combos and design the character to match.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
WP gets a lot of recommendation, but I can't really suggest it for a first tanker due to the difficulty in holding aggro. WP has by far the weakest taunt aura of all tankers... it's 1.25 seconds base duration compared to Invuln's 16.9 second base duration.
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)?
Quote:
I'd point out that taunt auras only really become important on large teams full of certain squishies - blasters and defenders mostly. If the OP plays regularly with 2 or 3 friends, WP is ideal. It has no need of specific buffs, and on smaller spawn sizes taunt auras become much less of a priority.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
WP gets a lot of recommendation, but I can't really suggest it for a first tanker due to the difficulty in holding aggro. WP has by far the weakest taunt aura of all tankers... it's 1.25 seconds base duration compared to Invuln's 16.9 second base duration.
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For big teams and late game task forces, Invulnerability does outshine Willpower.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
I would disagree with this to a point. My WP/SS tanker is my first tank and the only one I've gotten past lvl 10 and I have yet to have someone tell me I have trouble holding aggro. However, to counter my own point while I've never had one as a "main" toon, I've played tanks in every other MMO I've played so I'm already familiar with the basics. I picked WP for that reason and the fact that from what everyone says it is more of a challenge than some other primaries.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
WP gets a lot of recommendation, but I can't really suggest it for a first tanker due to the difficulty in holding aggro. WP has by far the weakest taunt aura of all tankers... it's 1.25 seconds base duration compared to Invuln's 16.9 second base duration.
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To the OP it sounds like this will be your first melee in any MMO and if so you may want to listen to what others are saying but if WP sounds interesting to you give it a try just check out Heraclea's guide to aggro as a WP tanker. As I said I've tanked in other games but the mechanics in this game are different enough that I learned quite a bit from it.
Edit: I wanted to add that holding aggro is only a real issue when you have an overzealous blaster or scrapper (because it's usually one of those two ATs lol) that charges in before you... this WILL happen but any team I've been on where that's been the case the "guilty" party usually responds to their death with "oops". lol
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
I think Ice is the easiest but that's just me.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Since you are completely new I am going to give you the best combo I believe you can start out with; Shield/Fire. Fire will be for you to do your damage, which it does very well. Shield is the key to this build it will teach you how to tank. If you don't farm this toon and actually play it, the way the power sets are made for shields, it practically teaches you the basics and how to handle your toon.
You are probably thinking, well don't all the power sets have this and the answer is no! Shields has abilities that make you depend on aggro, without aggro, you are vulnerable. This tank is also a great long term tank, it can become a beast of all tanks. It also does insane damage. Which you should enjoy since your a former blaster.
I hope you read this post, although I can understand that you may never get to it because you may have already chosen your tank. Good luck to you!
EDIT: also each build of a tanker (pretty much depending on their primary) has a different focus and play style. Shield is pretty defense oriented, and since your defense oriented you worry about defense debuffs but shield comes with a safety button that protects you from those debuffs.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
Another note: Scrapper players (usually) don't expect to be saved (which you probably already know), so it's okay to let them go sacrifice themselves. That's why we have the word "Scrapperlock". |
Originally Posted by Radubadu
Edit: I wanted to add that holding aggro is only a real issue when you have an overzealous blaster or scrapper (because it's usually one of those two ATs lol) that charges in before you... this WILL happen but any team I've been on where that's been the case the "guilty" party usually responds to their death with "oops". lol
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Yep, as a tank you have to sort out the ADD Scrappers from the regular scrappers ROFL.(I'm add so I can make fun of them!) You will notice if you haven't already that scrappers think they are invincible, some can be, we call them scrankers. Others are n00bs. They can screw up everything if they are able to pull the aggro off of you or worst.... pull things onto your team. They will run everywhere...only way to solve this problem: Tell them to knock their crap off and if they have aggro they have to kill it!
Blasters will run in to nuke, but they are usually good and back right out afterwards. If you aren't ready for them to try and tank, don't be afraid to tell them, this game has a great community and will listen to you if your the tank or have the star or control heals....
The great thing about Shields, which I mentioned earlier, it holds aggro really well. Also has a power called grant cover, so you will protect any enemies near you...which takes care of this scrapper/blaster suicidal problem.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
Yep lol... one of the most fun teams I've been on with my tanker the scrapper ran in before me and died on probably 15% or more of all the "pulls". |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Another note: Scrapper players (usually) don't expect to be saved (which you probably already know), so it's okay to let them go sacrifice themselves. That's why we have the word "Scrapperlock".
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It started to make me mad until I realized it didn't bother him and it wasnt hurting the team lol
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
I must say that WP/SS is a nice starter tank. I am new to tanks and have played this char to lvl 39 in a few weeks. He's great!
I did take taunt because I read about the issue with holding aggro and have not had an issue at all. I threw some taunt IO's in there and went to town.
The heal is wonderful and the non issue with stamina is super. I did take stamina as well, just to make sure I never run out and it's worked like a charm.
SS puts out some great damage and I've built my guy for damage. There was a thread somewhere about building for damage that I can't locate, but I followed that build and it's been awesome. Quick kills and fast moving through mishes.
So for my 2 cents, WP/SS is a good way to introduce yourself into tanking.
Cheers,
S
Justice
Everwood
Triumph
The Trust
I have a Invul/SS tank and followed Call Me Awesome's guides (after the fact). Using those guides, I've built a very solid tank who is fun to play. Of course, most tanks built to take the Alpha strike and hold aggro can seem boring for the first 30 levels. If built well, the tank becomes more than just fun from levels 35+. He can stand in the midst of utter chaos and remain relatively unscathed.
All of my past chars have been range-oriented... blaster, defender, mastermind. I want to take a whack at tanking, but I have absolutely no clue about what is most important to look for in a build for any melee character. I know there are tons of guides out there, but can anyone recommend a simple/easy tank powerset? At first I wanted to do fire/?, but that got some mediocre reviews.