AT specialization and GR

@SpaceNut - My 50s, AE arcs and current projects at ParagonWiki

...I forgot what experience means.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Having personally been on a lot of speedrun/min-max TFs before, I don't agree. There is a preference for buff/debuff/leadership since they are so powerful in this game, but in a pinch any AT will do. You will never see a Defender turned down for a Corruptor, or a VEAT turned down to get another Controller, etc. A lot of leaders I regularly run with answer "what should I bring?" with "whatever you like".

People who are extremely picky about ATs (We need a tank! We need a kin! blah blah) tend to be poor players, the complete opposite of min-maxing speedrunners. Therefore, likeliest change: incompetents

Why would you need a Tank if you have 7 Corruptors? For one, with that degree of buff/debuff, you could completely get away with not having a melee at all.

And if you did have a melee, a Brute would do you better because there's no way the Brute would have trouble staying alive with all that, and his damage would be buffable to much higher levels.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

That situation was the most fun I had playing my ELM/ELA Brute (50 before the buff).

7 Corrupters and my Brute. It was LOVE! LOVE!

Hmmmm, while I agree with you... I took Alpha to mean that the "best" combination for a min-max/speedrun would change, due primarily to different options becoming available... not that they would necessarily become more discerning. I could be wrong.

Statement: Accurate
Liklihood of possibility: Highest
Guarenteed: Not necessarily

Possible Addendum: I stand corrected

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

^^This

Couldn't agree more.

That presumes that there is a "best" combination for a speedrun, and there really isn't. You can't have extremely strict team compositions for speedruns, otherwise it takes 1 hour to assemble the team and 20 minutes to finish the TF, which kind of defeats the point of a speed run. (That, and waiting forever just to get the perfect team composition is really really annoying.)

TF speeders simply do the bare minimum to accomplish mission objectives, such as knowing that on the mission to rescue Birch during Manticore's TF, the spawn guarding the hostage is only 2-3 minions, and can be handled by 1 stealth-capable character while everyone else goes to Crey's Folly to find large Crey spawns in preparation for the next mission. You don't need specific ATs or powersets for this, just players who can follow orders quickly and accurately.

That couldn't further from the truth, I would gladly turn down a VEAT for a Controller in a task force simply because they will bring more to the table than a VEAT could. Min/Maxing means you want to maximize your teams survivability and damage while minimizing the time necessary to run a task force so that means you don't take whatever comes at you and you specifically build a team that is made for that task force.

If you were offered the choice, sure, take your pick. And there is certainly a preference for buff/debuff. In my experience TF speedrunners are not known for extremely demanding LFM requests, though, because at some point you start spending more time getting the team together than you save with the performance boost. I have never heard competent speedrunners say "STF forming, need a stone tank, emp, rad, sonic and FF".

Had the awesomeness of this once, and 3 of the cors were kins. My god it was GLORIOUS!

That's kind of misleading, as you're comparing different roles. Controllers are mez/support, while VEATs are something like damage/defense/support. Controllers are better from a team-support standpoint, but they do low damage and don't contribute as much to an AV fight. If you're looking to speedrun, getting support and damage is better than getting support and mez, for most applications. Especially for ITF where enemies resist mez, or ITF/LGTF where you need to power through very durable AVs (and all the AVs in the LRSF, but Controllers can't go there yet anyway, so).

When I did daily speedruns on ITFs, LGTFs, or LRSFs, we'd tend to look for VEATs primarily because they have stacking buffs, are self-sufficient, and deal high damage. Past VEATs, we'd get Brutes and Corruptors, since they also offer high damage, and Corrs can do all the needed debuffs that Controllers would otherwise be contributing, like -RES and -regen. But also, Blasters and Scrappers were good picks for damage slots. There's no need for mez at all, and it would be slower to be tossing out low to no damage skills.

Granted SOME Controllers would be really awesome to have once you get to an AV fight, like kin or rad, but I'd rather have someone who deals a lot of damage outright to make it go faster, and as well is able to speed through groups of foes solo during the running bits. As such I'd rather take a Corruptor over a Controller from a speed aspect, because mezzes don't make things go faster, just safer. And if you get to a certain level of safety, more is wasted.

Note that all this is from a speedrun perspective. If I'm doing a TF for fun or I'm not doing it quickly, I could care less who comes. My VG and I did an 8-MM ITF last week just for the hell of it.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Not really we already have a couple zones today where redside and blueside can mix. I do agree with the point for the most part hero AT's are specialists and redside are generalists except for stalkers( who i would call a specialist) and scrappers who I would consider a generalist AT

I'd rather spend 20 minutes forming a team and blow through a ITF in an hour than spend 2 hours with an average team.

Dammit Jim, you're a robot, not a rikti

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

The group that Laev runs with (I've done runs with Laev myself) blows through ITFs in 22-26 mins. 1 hour would be considered *extremely* slow.

I do not know where you get your average run of pugs. On Triumph we usually get them done in 30-40 mins, easily.

This unit: Used Rikti speak before the Mods did.
Not: all the time
But: From time to time
I call: Hax!

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.