My /Kin troller needs Mez protection...
By
Derangedpolygot,
Posted on: 2010-01-04 18:58 in Player Questions
In general, building for status effects through IOs is going to be a waste of your time, influence, and slots.
For status protection (the kind that reduces the mag of a mez until it's low enough that it doesn't work), you won't be able to get any outside of knockback. Simply put, none exists.
For status resistance (the kind that reduces the duration of mezzes), you're never going to be able to get a meaningful amount through IOs. I think the formula is 1 / ((RES / 100) + 1). Meaning even if you had 100%, it would only halve the duration. 200% would make it 1/3. But seeing as the IO bonuses tend to hover around 1-2%, you'd never get enough to even halve the duration of mezzes.
Your best bet is to simply build for defense so that, more often than not, you simply dodge the effects.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
In general, building for status effects through IOs is going to be a waste of your time, influence, and slots.
Your best bet is to simply build for defense so that, more often than not, you simply dodge the effects. |
Okay this is do-able.
I have Superior Invis (currently slotted for 3 End Redux/1 Def - but now that I have Transference (my most recent Ding), I can alter that to 3 Def/1 End), and Combat Jumping (already slotted for +Def but I can revisit that slotting to make sure I'm getting the most out of it).
Thanks Dis, any other suggestions peeps?
(And at the risk of derailing my own thread - just now noticing that my Rep suddenly jumped like 3 jellybeans in about a week. Has anyone twigged on a quick and easy way to figure out why, now that we can't see comments?)
As an Ill/Kin controller you do have the option of building for the frankly insane levels of +recharge bonus needed to make phantom army permanent and taking 'Indomitable Will', the mez protection click power from the psionic mastery epic pool. They have the same duration/recharge time ratios so when one is perma the other should be too.
It's not an always-on option, unless you have HUGE +recharge, but what about this?
@Roderick
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Yes, that's what Edana recommended as well...I was hoping for something I could put to work immediately, rather than waiting for my Epic ding. |
Originally Posted by Roderick
It's not an always-on option, unless you have HUGE +recharge, but what about this?
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I'll certainly consider taking Psi as my Epic, but I do SO love Hibernate...
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An Ill/Kin controller can be running with Superior Invisibility and walk right by most mobs and with Deceive get a "pet" or two with no chance of aggro as long as the deceived mob takes no damage from the controller. If the controller does damage the deceived mob, aggro will come when deceive wears off.|
Originally Posted by Edana
As an Ill/Kin controller you do have the option of building for the frankly insane levels of +recharge bonus needed to make phantom army permanent and taking 'Indomitable Will', the mez protection click power from the psionic mastery epic pool. They have the same duration/recharge time ratios so when one is perma the other should be too.
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In short they can't mez what they don't see. They can't mez while working for you. In more extreme cases, PA does a great job holding aggro while you "recruit" help. Get Deceive to recharge fast enough, which is easy to do, you can "recruit" a boss. Sure you lose a bit of XP but with Sky Raider FF generators on your side, Sorcerers healing your team, Trolls setting off their own barrels of explosives and Embalmed blowing up other Vaz, they are just so much fun to play with.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Originally Posted by RobertoLyon
I'm discovering that my ill/Kin troller has to be in the thick of things (up near the melee'ers) to be as effective as I want, but this is leaving me very vulnerable to AoE Mezes.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
In short they can't mez what they don't see.
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Interesting choice of quote btw, was that emphasis or disagreement?
And that's what I get for reading a title and skim the posts. 
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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There are powers that do provide some limited status protection.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
For status protection (the kind that reduces the mag of a mez until it's low enough that it doesn't work), you won't be able to get any outside of knockback. Simply put, none exists.
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Acrobatics provides mag 2 Hold protection.
Combat Jumping provides mag 8 Immobilize protection.
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On a controller combat jumping's immob protection scales from mag 4.08 at level 6 to 8.3 at level 50.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
There are powers that do provide some limited status protection.
Acrobatics provides mag 2 Hold protection. Combat Jumping provides mag 8 Immobilize protection. |
Acrobatics is a constant mag 2 all the way from 20 to 50.
The only other reliable status protection from pool powers would be tactics with mag 3.03 confuse protection at level 14 scaling up to 5.19 at 50.
I know it's not the answer, but I would say change tactics(not knowing what yours are)... With my Kin, I used to *stay* in melee. I learned to get in and get out and it saved me a lot of heartache. Let the tank aggro, then fulcrum, then send in the army or whatever else you want. And if you are trying to be a support role, then I would not even jump in to fulcrum. I would use it from a distance and hang at the back letting phantasm, army, and my buffing carry the weight. But as others have mentioned, early on the only ways are through acro and combat jumping and such. With kinetics and hasten, the epic protection does wonders, but hibernate is also great with kinetics.
One non-IO and non-power related answer.
All common "I'm squishy and get mezzed a lot" problems can be solved by making friends with a bubbler.
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The are two Special IO's you can find to help:|
Originally Posted by RobertoLyon
I'm discovering that my ill/Kin troller has to be in the thick of things (up near the melee'ers) to be as effective as I want, but this is leaving me very vulnerable to AoE Mezes.
I don't pay much attention to Sets or special IOs - could someone recommend an effective way to increase my Mez protection? Inf Cost isn't *really* an issue, but I am hoping that there's a cost-effective way to do this. As I'm writing this I think I'm remembering that there's a Temp/Reward/Day Job power that can help with this as well? |
The Aegis Unique (3% Psi res & 20% Status Resistance)
Impervious skin (7.5% Status resistance).
Place both in whichever epic armor you get(provided it takes Resist damage sets).
Also use Increase Density to hold another Impervious Skin. If you're crazy enough to take Tough too, that's another you can place.
Not true Protection, but shorter durations are always good--it help versus stacking effects.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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And none of those are going to do anything for the OP because immob and confuse aren't going to cause detoggle or any real problems. I'm also pretty sure nothing heroes fight confuses (although us villains have a small handful...). The hold would be useful but I don't think any enemy units use mag 2 or less holds. The real issue is going to be random stuns, holds, and sleeps like from Rikti, Tsoo, Circle, and some other gangs. And for those your best bet is to just build for DEF to dodge them.
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Originally Posted by Edana
On a controller combat jumping's immob protection scales from mag 4.08 at level 6 to 8.3 at level 50.
Acrobatics is a constant mag 2 all the way from 20 to 50. The only other reliable status protection from pool powers would be tactics with mag 3.03 confuse protection at level 14 scaling up to 5.19 at 50. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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My Fire/Kin corruptor uses this and Mez becomes a significantly smaller issue.
/macro BF inspcombine insight break_free$$inspcombine enrage break_free$$inspcombine catch_a_breath break_free$$inspcombine respite break_free$$inspcombine awaken break_free
You can toss in oranges and purples too but I like eating them. You can also make a tier 2 and a tier 3 version or tack them on the same button. I mauled a Lady Grey TF just the other night taking most of the alphas on my corruptor thanks to inspiration combining macros.
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IW is much harder to perma than PA
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Originally Posted by Edana
As an Ill/Kin controller you do have the option of building for the frankly insane levels of +recharge bonus needed to make phantom army permanent and taking 'Indomitable Will', the mez protection click power from the psionic mastery epic pool. They have the same duration/recharge time ratios so when one is perma the other should be too.
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Great suggestions from all - thx very much Heroes!
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
The are two Special IO's you can find to help:
The Aegis Unique (3% Psi res & 20% Status Resistance) Impervious skin (7.5% Status resistance). Place both in whichever epic armor you get(provided it takes Resist damage sets). Also use Increase Density to hold another Impervious Skin. If you're crazy enough to take Tough too, that's another you can place. Not true Protection, but shorter durations are always good--it help versus stacking effects. |
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PA lasts for 60 seconds, you can ignore the 3.1 second activation time since the decoys come out sequentially and disband at the same speed. Base recharge is 240 seconds. 240/60=4, minus 1 for base and 0.95 for internal slotting gives you 205% global recharge bonus needed to perma.|
Originally Posted by NordBlast
IW is much harder to perma than PA
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IW lasts for 90 seconds and has a 0.73 activation time, which translates to 0.93 seconds accounting for server ticks. Base recharge is 360 seconds. 360/(90-0.93)=4.041, minus 1.95 for base and slotting gives you 209.1% recharge needed to be perma.
70% for hasten, 40% from double stacking siphon speed. either 95% global recharge from IOs for PA or 99.1% for IW.
Finding an extra 4-5% recharge at this level is not "much harder".
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Couple billions more? |
Originally Posted by Edana
PA lasts for 60 seconds, you can ignore the 3.1 second activation time since the decoys come out sequentially and disband at the same speed. Base recharge is 240 seconds. 240/60=4, minus 1 for base and 0.95 for internal slotting gives you 205% global recharge bonus needed to perma.
IW lasts for 90 seconds and has a 0.73 activation time, which translates to 0.93 seconds accounting for server ticks. Base recharge is 360 seconds. 360/(90-0.93)=4.041, minus 1.95 for base and slotting gives you 209.1% recharge needed to be perma. 70% for hasten, 40% from double stacking siphon speed. either 95% global recharge from IOs for PA or 99.1% for IW. Finding an extra 4-5% recharge at this level is not "much harder". |
The Wiki doesn't give details, how much "resistance" do the Empowerment Station buffs give? Only Knockback gives any protection, but all the rest have a resist buff. Is it enough to be meaningful? That's a cheap solution in 1-hour increments that is available from level 1.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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You can't hit "a couple of billion" extra without dipping into PVP IOs which don't tend to be better for recharge bonuses than what's already available, or going for the more common purple sets like T-AoE, PBAoE, Melee, Ranged. Less common sets like the confuse one aren't that bad usually.|
Originally Posted by NordBlast
Couple billions more?
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Seriously, if you can't perma IW on a /kin without going into multiple billions just for the last 5% above perma PA it would be almost impossible to perma PA on a /rad that gets 10% less recharge out of her secondary. Let alone any set that doesn't have recharge buffs in it.
Ended up pulling mids out and slapping a build together; it's a bit rough around the edges, but call it a first pass proof of concept.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1406;676;1352;HEX;| |78DAA593DB4E13511486F7F440819696525AA0502820C7D20A771E2E4C448C559A3| |46AB8E260A9034ED24C49A718B9F301F074E529C653D407F014E34308787A076F3C| |BC405D6BFDBB80D13B27EDFFCD5EF3EF7FF65E3393BB7222A0D4D563CA689D2E151| |C6769BA6C572BE552C9AC78738555ABA87C4AA9C1BD6ADD90C9964AEB8E55B6EB85| |CE7D9EE3EB2B2B9933966D56ADA213CEDA97CC8A695733F59340BE4C0127ADAA6D3| |A4EB30CCEAD99E6C5B09C66EDCB96632D5B25ABBA01E7AC5958B3ECD5F69935AB98| |C9F34DADE252AEE054CDCA46272D6F8CFE0F0DA58F9A47DD268C28D71DE0AEC0730| |FB82F98D96F8FB8959A528DED82E6281013043A048FC86E68BB81F406A43720BD11| |E901A43F26AF5BDBDDF32E4E082E008B82D625E082C04B3DF64A7C4D79D38A4B4F6| |9E84382F2450D2E9D226D3238B6E66E8A8BAB4D2325680706689E1F692EFF1F5762| |C020195A74764B83ACC047A510E618A139B95DECB4C15B79461A86D91BFE2EE6CE1| |FC04F41FC1780EC1EA091F2227A0D9124AE00BD008747116B44511A068234B543AF| |AE033B7F4EDAA5DBD9F581060975600BD8067604C31F0559D26E6DEFEE92D2785C9| |0EE164CF50009C11351D8139F5C3CE8FD0C7C11F47F055664312F48FBB4BD0F0D49| |A2214934248986F47F93EDCC927D40F76F6053AE0C5E03AE033704E337815B821CC| |D1A320CB9C9101EF2303092FA07B6E8AD1845BBDDA3E8D9581B0083C636F952F079| |53E8CC043A3381CE4CA0336974263D2E193B342BA3779C792941075F01AF813782A| |9B778CBE8014EEAB779128BE9F1EC7E6DF4A343CDFE55C97B763F31654825B1E7F9| |AFE35DA09ED374B699F43C4B9E658E659E65816591A5C0B2CC5264A9BDDF9D1D3AC| |40B3ACC7284E528CB269B7C7E123F4B80A58525C81262696589B0C458E22C0F586A| |BF0181A6FFAF| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
By this point you're really rather glad transference is down to a 10 second cycle time though, you burn through end like nothing I've ever seen when going flat out
Incidentally, if you can't at least attempt to back up these unsupported one sentence retorts I'll be leaving this alone now since we wandered quite some way from the 'cost effective' solutions asked for the second we started perma'ing PA.
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
The Wiki doesn't give details, how much "resistance" do the Empowerment Station buffs give? Only Knockback gives any protection, but all the rest have a resist buff. Is it enough to be meaningful? That's a cheap solution in 1-hour increments that is available from level 1.
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Aid Self also grants some Stun resistance in addition to healing you.
Thanks Edana
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I'm discovering that my ill/Kin troller has to be in the thick of things (up near the melee'ers) to be as effective as I want, but this is leaving me very vulnerable to AoE Mezes.
I don't pay much attention to Sets or special IOs - could someone recommend an effective way to increase my Mez protection?
Inf Cost isn't *really* an issue, but I am hoping that there's a cost-effective way to do this.
As I'm writing this I think I'm remembering that there's a Temp/Reward/Day Job power that can help with this as well?