(1) Yes. Green mitos have mag 50 mez protection. Benumb will reduce this.
(2) It shouldn't. Most mez doesn't do anything to the towers, though I believe they can be caged. They don't regenerate, move, mez or attack. They don't use endurance.
(3) There's no such thing as damage debuff resistance, per-se. Damage resistance resists damage debuffs. If the red tower is giving LR damage resistance then it would also give him additional resistance to damage debuffs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/STF#Lord_Recluse_Strategy|
Originally Posted by Kahlan_
(someone once told me that the red tower in the STF gives recluse damage debuff resistance)
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Quote:
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Red Tower: Status Effect Bonus(Knockback, Disorient) +105% DMG(Smashing, Lethal, Energy) +105% Res(Smashing, Lethal, Energy) (hardcapped at 100%) |
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Just wanted to confirm that caging does work on the towers. Definitely a handy tactic for MoSTF runs. Cage blue while the team hammers on red works pretty well.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
(2) It shouldn't. Most mez doesn't do anything to the towers, though I believe they can be caged.
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This is why I thought maybe benumb would affect stuff like the heal, +tohit, +def, etc
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Just wanted to confirm that caging does work on the towers. Definitely a handy tactic for MoSTF runs. Cage blue while the team hammers on red works pretty well.
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If you've got cages available, why not cage Recluse himself? Caging a tower will make him a bit weaker. Caging him will make him incapable of doing anything to you while you work on the tower.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Just wanted to confirm that caging does work on the towers. Definitely a handy tactic for MoSTF runs. Cage blue while the team hammers on red works pretty well.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Not quite.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
(1) Yes. Green mitos have mag 50 mez protection. Benumb will reduce this.
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Benumb doesn't reduce mag protection, it reduces mez resistance, making the holds last longer therefore making it easier to hold the greens (or anything its applied to)
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
(3) There's no such thing as damage debuff resistance, per-se. Damage resistance resists damage debuffs.
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By "caging," is everyone referring to "holding" or is there something else I do not know about?
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
If you've got cages available, why not cage Recluse himself? Caging a tower will make him a bit weaker. Caging him will make him incapable of doing anything to you while you work on the tower.
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"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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"Caging" refers to the status effect from powers such as Force Field's Detention Field or Sonic's Sonic Cage. It applies an Untouchable/Intanglible effect combined with an Immobilize, which prevents the target from using any powers other than those that affect themselves and also prevents any powers from being used against them.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
By "caging," is everyone referring to "holding" or is there something else I do not know about?
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Never tried it, but I think the defense buff and status protection from the orange tower would render it ineffective on Recluse.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
If you've got cages available, why not cage Recluse himself? Caging a tower will make him a bit weaker. Caging him will make him incapable of doing anything to you while you work on the tower.
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I've done it. Of course, the immob didn't affect him so LR was running around trying to punch us through his sonic cage, but (IIRC) we had two /Sonic Controllers trading off capturing LR.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Never tried it, but I think the defense buff and status protection from the orange tower would render it ineffective on Recluse.
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It wasn't a Master run, and we had a death or two due to the short lapse between one cage dropping and the next being applied (since you can't really overlap the cages). But considering our "tank" was an AR/Dev/Munitions Blaster (no, seriously, she really did tank LR's lieutenants; the shields from the Sonics helped, of course, but the Blaster was our tank), it was extremely helpful.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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So it seems. I was remembering some (quite old) discussions about Power Boost and its cousins increasing mez protection mag, but I'm guessing that was erroneous. If it worked that way, it should have increased mag on outbound mezzes, and we know it can't do that. (I remember some redname or other told us we get to choose between mag and duration, but can't boost both on the same power with the exception of knock powers.) Some quick testing couldn't reproduce it increasing mag, but could reproduce it increasing resistance.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Benumb doesn't reduce mag protection, it reduces mez resistance, making the holds last longer therefore making it easier to hold the greens (or anything its applied to)
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The terminology they use in the power definitions is pretty obscure. Picking on the ones shown on RedTomax's site, Mez protections are listed as -X Hold, and mez resistance is listed as +Y% RES(Hold), but the effects of PB and Benumb are listed as +Z% Hold.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Thanks for all the replies. It seems the consensus is:
1. Yes
2. No (Though I'm personally not entirely convinced, I'd like to do some testing...)
3. Yes
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Interesting thought on that one; the way those towers grant their powers is odd enough (since the devs wanted to avoid the "hold the towers to shut them down strategy" which had previously trivialized the Sewer Trial and Hami Raid from working) that it might not work, but then again it might.|
Originally Posted by Kahlan_
Thanks for all the replies. It seems the consensus is:
2. No (Though I'm personally not entirely convinced, I'd like to do some testing...) |
I suggest having several folks on that experiment bring along the "Mark IV Power Analyzer" (or whatever its called, some kind of Power Analyzer) temp power to check the effects on both the tower and on LR when you try it. Though I don't know offhand if that shows the effects of granted powers, but thats easy enough to see, check a foes tohit when its being hit with a dark blast or something.
I just want to say that there are no benumb questions, just benumb answers.
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Quote:
Mark III. |
Originally Posted by Scientist
I suggest having several folks on that experiment bring along the "Mark IV Power Analyzer" (or whatever its called, some kind of Power Analyzer) temp power to check the effects on both the tower and on LR when you try it.
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Temp_Pow...nalyzer_mk_III
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It definitely shows applied affects like that. I and teammates have used it many times to look (sometimes in awe) at the net effect teams have on AVs.
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Originally Posted by Scientist
I suggest having several folks on that experiment bring along the "Mark IV Power Analyzer" (or whatever its called, some kind of Power Analyzer) temp power to check the effects on both the tower and on LR when you try it. Though I don't know offhand if that shows the effects of granted powers, but thats easy enough to see, check a foes tohit when its being hit with a dark blast or something.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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You're remembering the fact that an enhancement cannot increase both magnitude and duration of anything - no exceptions.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I remember some redname or other told us we get to choose between mag and duration, but can't boost both on the same power with the exception of knock powers.
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This has no bearing on the effects of buffs.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Actually, I specifically remember Knock* being an exception. Something about the two attributes being intrinsically tied together for those effects.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Correct, this is because Knockback powers don't have a "duration" in the sense that other effects do, they simply have the magnitude|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Actually, I specifically remember Knock* being an exception. Something about the two attributes being intrinsically tied together for those effects.
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Example
If you have mag 5 hold protection and 50% hold resistance, this means that you are protected from any combonation of holds that total 5 and below.
Also, any holds that do hit have the duration reduced by 50%
Now in the case of knockback...say you have 5 KB protection and 50% KB resistance..
This means you are protected from KB Mag 5 and below, however in THIS case, 50% resistance reduces the MAGNITUDE of the KB(a mag 5 KB power would be 2.5 on you) as knockback doesn't have a duration
This is what is meant by Knockbacks duration and magnitude being tied together
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False; knockback does have duration, it's just that the duration is usually 0. For a counterexample, Repulsion Field applies a 0.75s knockback in PvE.|
Originally Posted by Tylerst
Correct, this is because Knockback powers don't have a "duration" in the sense that other effects do, they simply have the magnitude
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Knockback is not an exception to the magnitude-vs-duration rule, it's just that the mechanics of knockback are such that magnitude correlates with distance moved. Similarly, the mechanics of knockback resistance match the mechanics of damage resistance (final = initial * resistance), rather than the mechanics of, say, hold resistance (final = initial / [1 + resistance])
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Actually, to reduce the duration 50% would require 100% hold resistance.|
Originally Posted by Tylerst
If you have mag 5 hold protection and 50% hold resistance, this means that you are protected from any combonation of holds that total 5 and below.
Also, any holds that do hit have the duration reduced by 50% |
Most mez resistance works from the Duration=Original Duration/(1+Resistance). It also caps at 100%, so the biggest reduction is 50% of the original duration.
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I think that cap was raised recently, so that you can have higher than 100% mez resistance. Don't quote me on it though, but I seem to recall it did
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Actually, to reduce the duration 50% would require 100% hold resistance.
Most mez resistance works from the Duration=Original Duration/(1+Resistance). It also caps at 100%, so the biggest reduction is 50% of the original duration. |
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The cap was indeed raised, to 10,000%. I was the one that organized a group of Rads and Sonics to test the new value. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
I think that cap was raised recently, so that you can have higher than 100% mez resistance. Don't quote me on it though, but I seem to recall it did
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Technically, I can't say the cap is exactly 10,000%, because the value was extrapolated from the Combat Attributes window. The CA window says you've hit the cap when you're at 0.99% mez duration, which translates to 10,001.0101...%, but the CA window also isn't the most precise thing in the world, only going to 2 decimal places. It seems likely to me that the actual cap is 10,000% (0.9900990099...% duration), despite the calculated cap being 10,001.0101...% (0.99% duration).
Edit: Just think, at the status resistance cap, the infamous Malta stun grenades from a +4 lieutenant last 0.42768 seconds
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Not exactly. I direct you to this answer I just wrote in the bounty hunter thread.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Benumb doesn't reduce mag protection, it reduces mez resistance, making the holds last longer therefore making it easier to hold the greens (or anything its applied to)
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Summary: benumb doesn't specifically reduce mez magnitude or resistance, it actually debuffs mez strength. That will affect the green mito's ability to buff itself with its own mez protection power. In the case of the green mito, I'm pretty sure (based on my recollection) it will reduce the magnitude of that protection. However, I should point out that if I remember correctly, green mitos also have mez resistance, and that mez resistance will resist not only all mez attacks (cutting their duration), but Benumb's attempt to debuff mez strength also.
Also, on the subject of mez resistance, I believe player mez resistance caps were increased to 100.0 (10,000%) but I don't think critter mez resistance caps were increased at the same time.
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1. Does benumb make it easier to mez the green mitos?
2. Does benumb do anything if applied to the towers in the STF?
3. Other than the purple patch, is there any way to resist the damage debuff? (someone once told me that the red tower in the STF gives recluse damage debuff resistance)