Ultra-mode video card shopping guide
By
5th_Player,
Posted on: 2009-11-25 11:21 in Developers' Corner
Sapphire 2GB 256 HD5970 ordered.
It was in stock on newegg for about two hours. Hot.
You do realize that the HD 5970 is over a foot long? I hope your case can fit it.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I do. Its preposterously huge...12.2" if I recall correctly. I've got a CM HAF932 ATX Full Tower, and some good headroom to maneuver in. I'm only running a single optical drive at the moment, so that should leave enough clearance for the card.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
You do realize that the HD 5970 is over a foot long? I hope your case can fit it.
|
Linky:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-160-_-Product
Great then. I know of people who were surprised by the length of the single GPU HD 5870 and were forced to break out the power tools. 
Edit: Yep, the HAF 932 can handle cards up to 12.7" long. That's a BIG case.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
It really is. I'm running an XFX 5770 now and if you tap the top of the tower, it gongs like an empty oil drum. Its quite a monster.
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Great then. I know of people who were surprised by the length of the single GPU HD 5870 and were forced to break out the power tools.
Edit: Yep, the HAF 932 can handle cards up to 12.7" long. That's a BIG case. |
Quote:
Not much that I can see. Other than one is available and the other isn't. Though the available one I'd guess is a refresh as it is PCIE 2.1 while the unavailable one is PCIE 2.0. Otherwise they seem identical to me in all other respects. And I do believe XFX does the double lifetime deal on all their stuff. Newegg just didn't include it in their description.
|
Originally Posted by Cerulean_Shadow
One last question -
Is there any benefit to getting this card as opposed to the one that's $10 cheaper? First card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150443 second card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150476 The first one support the eyefinity thing, which I don't care about since I only have one monitor. (Though I guess it wouldn't hurt to have it if the card has any other benefits.) The first one also talks about the double lifetime guarantee, but I thought all XFX cards had that? |
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Ok, so I'm no where near as good with computers as I would like to be... so I went to the Dell website and tried putting a rig together that was in my budget range... so can anyone here with more knowledge give me their opinion on these specs?
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7-920 processor(8MB L3 Cache, 2.66GHz)
OPERATING SYSTEM Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit
MEMORY 6GB Tri-Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
GRAPHICS CARD ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO HELP DO YOUR PART TO SAVE C.O.H!!!!!
Looks good on the whole. Nitpick-wise, I'd suggest changing the memory a bit. Right now you have six 1GB sticks. Odds are that's all the memory slots in the machine filled. You might consider changing to say three 2GB sticks. That will leave room open for future upgrades if you ever decide you need more memory. 6GB total is good and may well be enough for the life of the system, but just in case... And you could consider a bigger HDD. Storage is generally cheap. But if you don't think there's any chance you'll fill it, don't bother increasing it. As an alternative to bigger, you could also look at a faster HDD.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Quote:
Totally in agreement with Blast here.|
Originally Posted by Back_Blast
Looks good on the whole. Nitpick-wise, I'd suggest changing the memory a bit. Right now you have six 1GB sticks. Odds are that's all the memory slots in the machine filled. You might consider changing to say three 2GB sticks. That will leave room open for future upgrades if you ever decide you need more memory. 6GB total is good and may well be enough for the life of the system, but just in case... And you could consider a bigger HDD. Storage is generally cheap. But if you don't think there's any chance you'll fill it, don't bother increasing it. As an alternative to bigger, you could also look at a faster HDD.
|
One thing I do have to mention is that if this is a Dell system as opposed to an Alienware system, your BIOS may be locked and thus CPU overclocking will not be possible. The Core i3/i5/i7 CPUs are so awesome for overclocking that it would be a shame to spend that kind of money on a system and not be able to get the absolute most out of it. If you're planning on have a PC built for you, I'd check around to a couple other websites before committing to a system from Dell, as you might be able to find the same thing for less money and still have the option to be able to overclock it if you want.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by steveb
Totally in agreement with Blast here.
One thing I do have to mention is that if this is a Dell system as opposed to an Alienware system, your BIOS may be locked and thus CPU overclocking will not be possible. The Core i3/i5/i7 CPUs are so awesome for overclocking that it would be a shame to spend that kind of money on a system and not be able to get the absolute most out of it. If you're planning on have a PC built for you, I'd check around to a couple other websites before committing to a system from Dell, as you might be able to find the same thing for less money and still have the option to be able to overclock it if you want. |
You have any suggestions for websites to would build the PC for me? Keep in mind I'm in Canada.
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO HELP DO YOUR PART TO SAVE C.O.H!!!!!
Is building the PC yourself totally out of the question? I know you said you're not too good with computers, but it's really not that difficult if you follow the directions. A couple of my friends whose only experience was upgrading a video card had no problems doing it themselves.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
This. It really isn't hard, despite how intimidating it seems. I can't stress that enough.
|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Is building the PC yourself totally out of the question? I know you said you're not too good with computers, but it's really not that difficult if you follow the directions. A couple of my friends whose only experience was upgrading a video card had no problems doing it themselves.
|
Quote:
You want system builders? as in pre-built systems?|
Originally Posted by Ozmosis
You have any suggestions for websites to would build the PC for me? Keep in mind I'm in Canada.
|
Are we allowed to post them here?
Tip: Internet is your friend.
Risking mod-wrath... try newegg.com: Link to DIY page (some thing close to you pre-existing specs)
try tigerdirect.com: link to possible option (Although look around their site- they have pre-built systems that may be suitable and within your budget)
try bestbuy.com
try compUSA.com
try Amazon.com: link to search page (Yes Amazon sells pre-built computers! Will wonders never cease.)
And if where you go doesn't deliver directly to where you are use these people as a freight forwarder: USUnlocked.com (I've gotten stuff. including books, clothing and video cards off Amazon and Buy.com (who also have pre-built systems) and gotten it sent to Australia. They give you a US shipping address)
Disclaimer: Any and all advice is use at own risk and by now means will I be held accountable to any injury that following it may cause to you or your neighbors dog, etc, etc... I may or may not have or have not had any dealing with any of these bodies. THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL!
"Just as I knew all of life's answers they changed all the questions!" - Unknown (seen on a poster)
Sig characters appear in the Ch�teau Rouge thread starting from post #100
I Support Nerd Flirting! - Story/Discussion/Sequel
Sig characters appear in the Ch�teau Rouge thread starting from post #100
I Support Nerd Flirting! - Story/Discussion/Sequel
You'd hardly be the first to provide those resources on these boards.
I finally decided on the SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100281VX-2SR Radeon. Ordered it from Newegg yesterday with three day shipping, and it is due to be delivered TODAY. Hooray! I will post results once it is installed and running.
I currently have two GeForce 9800GTX cards in SLI configuration. I'm going to yank one and see if I can get it to fit inside my son's PC. The other I'll probably sell, though I did read that there is a way to get it to work as a dedicated PhysX card. Does anyone know if that is actually possible?
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
Quote:
Well, first I'm not saying don't buy from Dell at all, but for the stats of the computer you're buying, get one of their Alienware branded PCs instead of a regular Dell one. Alienware rigs are built with enthusiast level parts and an unlocked BIOS, which will allow you to overclock your CPU to more out of it.|
Originally Posted by Ozmosis
You have any suggestions for websites to would build the PC for me? Keep in mind I'm in Canada.
|
Like many others in this thread, I am a DIY'er, but I get that building a computer for yourself might not be an option to you for various reasons. So, to point you in the direction of someone who can build you a great PC, I'd first say your local computer parts store: given the location in your profile, you're bound to have more than a few choices in your town, or else in nearby Hull and/or Ottawa. At a local store, they'll be able to help you choose compatible parts that might be significantly better than what the big names use in their PCs and for less money. Many stores actually have pre-picked bundles that they allow a few customization options on that really take the hassle out of choosing parts; plus with them assembling it for you, you still get the piece of mind that your PC has been tested out extensively before you ever turn it on for the first time. And it never hurts to put your money into a local business.
Quote:
I'll be honest though: I haven't bothered to even check to see if any overclocking settings exist in my Dell, because I haven't pegged the CPU in my i7-860 yet. If I really wanted to, I'm sure I could, but when I dump normal workloads (normal for me) onto it, it really doesn't seem to notice. A week ago I had two instances of CoH loaded, Vmware running a copy of my old XP workstation, a python simulation running, Real converting movies to iTunes in the background, and a bunch of miscellaneous foreground apps (like browsers), and I think I was at 78% CPU utilization. Wouldn't want to do that with less than 8 gigs of RAM, though.
|
Originally Posted by steveb
One thing I do have to mention is that if this is a Dell system as opposed to an Alienware system, your BIOS may be locked and thus CPU overclocking will not be possible. The Core i3/i5/i7 CPUs are so awesome for overclocking that it would be a shame to spend that kind of money on a system and not be able to get the absolute most out of it. If you're planning on have a PC built for you, I'd check around to a couple other websites before committing to a system from Dell, as you might be able to find the same thing for less money and still have the option to be able to overclock it if you want.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
While it is possible to mix an ATI primary GPU and use an Nvidia one to process PhysX, the workaround is a real hassle with only mixed results. The truth is the game companies have been very slow to get into PhysX, plus with Intel and ATI/AMD both pushing Havoc (an open sources physics engine) few game developers bother implementing even the most basis PhysX features. If the only game you play on a regular basis is CoH/V, then there's no point in using it as at the moment CoH isn't utilizing PhsyX processors except the old Aegia ones, which will slow your system down to a crawl with a modern high end GPU. There's really only two games out there that heavily use PhysX right now anyway: Cryostasis and Batman: Arkham Asylum; so if unless you're also playing one of those two, don't bother trying to get the ATI/Nvidia combo to work.
|
Originally Posted by Cerulean_Shadow
I currently have two GeForce 9800GTX cards in SLI configuration. I'm going to yank one and see if I can get it to fit inside my son's PC. The other I'll probably sell, though I did read that there is a way to get it to work as a dedicated PhysX card. Does anyone know if that is actually possible?
|
Quote:
The Alienware Desktops they had seemed lower grade then then one I made with their normal desktops... not to mention they were 200-300$ more pricy.|
Originally Posted by steveb
Well, first I'm not saying don't buy from Dell at all, but for the stats of the computer you're buying, get one of their Alienware branded PCs instead of a regular Dell one. Alienware rigs are built with enthusiast level parts and an unlocked BIOS, which will allow you to overclock your CPU to more out of it.
Like many others in this thread, I am a DIY'er, but I get that building a computer for yourself might not be an option to you for various reasons. So, to point you in the direction of someone who can build you a great PC, I'd first say your local computer parts store: given the location in your profile, you're bound to have more than a few choices in your town, or else in nearby Hull and/or Ottawa. At a local store, they'll be able to help you choose compatible parts that might be significantly better than what the big names use in their PCs and for less money. Many stores actually have pre-picked bundles that they allow a few customization options on that really take the hassle out of choosing parts; plus with them assembling it for you, you still get the piece of mind that your PC has been tested out extensively before you ever turn it on for the first time. And it never hurts to put your money into a local business. |
OMG That DIY link looks tempting! THANKS! Putting stuff together is a headache, but really isnt an issue, knowing what parts are compatible or not was.
Edit: the DIY sells me kits to built it myself, but doesnt allow me to change the parts? And the one that I saw there that was the closest to what I built on here is 2900$?? I get to put it together and pay twice the amount?? Am I doing something wrong?
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO HELP DO YOUR PART TO SAVE C.O.H!!!!!
Quote:
A common misconception about overclocking is that it will let your computer do more. It won't. It will let you do what you do faster though. The i7s are great for that sort of multi-tasking, but that kind of load on a system (78%) is unusual for the average gamer. If your CPU was overclocked to say 3.4GHz, you'd still be at 78% load with all of that running, but you'd be finishing the tasks faster.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'll be honest though: I haven't bothered to even check to see if any overclocking settings exist in my Dell, because I haven't pegged the CPU in my i7-860 yet. If I really wanted to, I'm sure I could, but when I dump normal workloads (normal for me) onto it, it really doesn't seem to notice. A week ago I had two instances of CoH loaded, Vmware running a copy of my old XP workstation, a python simulation running, Real converting movies to iTunes in the background, and a bunch of miscellaneous foreground apps (like browsers), and I think I was at 78% CPU utilization. Wouldn't want to do that with less than 8 gigs of RAM, though.
|
These days with many games simply being ported over from consoles with as few changes as possible, a faster CPU helps a lot, regardless over how many core/threads that you have to work with. As consoles age very quickly, technologically speaking, the way game developers get the most out of them is by putting as much of the work load on the CPU as possible. Since console CPUs usually have very high clock speeds, many games actually seem to run worse on PCs whose CPUs might be far more powerful, but their clock speeds are actually much lower than on their console counterparts. Thus, many people think that their GPUs simply aren't good enough to handle the high settings when in fact the CPU just isn't getting the information to the GPU quickly enough. By having a faster CPU, it allows for the CPU tasks to be accomplished faster, thus allowing your GPU to kick in sooner and let your PC really shine over a console.
Quote:
Not necessarily, and probably not in my case. Since none of the cores on my system were maxed out during that load, its likely there were other bottlenecks constraining performance (disk, for example, or less likely memory IO).|
Originally Posted by steveb
A common misconception about overclocking is that it will let your computer do more. It won't. It will let you do what you do faster though. The i7s are great for that sort of multi-tasking, but that kind of load on a system (78%) is unusual for the average gamer. If your CPU was overclocked to say 3.4GHz, you'd still be at 78% load with all of that running, but you'd be finishing the tasks faster.
|
On an i7-860, its also likely I would have to disable hyperthreading to get the maximum possible overclock, and that might also be a less than optimal change given my workloads.
For the most part, overclocking only helps if you have a saturated or nearly saturated processor core (even if the others are idle and your net CPU utilization is low). If you don't, overclocking usually can't help.
Your best bet for gaining ground with overclocking on a multicore processor like an i5 or i7 is if you don't do a lot of stuff simultaneously, but you do one or two extremely CPU-intensive tasks for which the CPU speed itself is the critical bottleneck. For people trying to maximize City of Heroes performance, the CPU is probably not going to be the problem if you're starting from an i7-860 or 920, say. There are other games, on the other hand, that could tap out those CPUs, because they would saturate out a single (or pair of) cores. I just don't own any at the moment.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Not trying to be a jerk here, but in a year and an half I've never once read that hyper-threading should be shut off in order to achieve maximum overclock. That's going to come as quite a shock to the literally hundreds of guys, like myself, running Core i7 860s, 920s and 930s at 4GHz or higher with hyper-threading on (these CPUs all have stock clocks of 2.66 to 2.8GHz). Intel Turbo-Boost does need to be shut down in order have a stable overclock, but there's literally hundreds of guys on the Nvidia, EVGA or XFX forums who would disagree about hyper-threading. Personally, I'm at 4GHz on an air-cooled i7 920 with my hyper-threading on and I've run extended CPU stress tests and Folding@Home for hours on my CPU without a glitch.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Not necessarily, and probably not in my case. Since none of the cores on my system were maxed out during that load, its likely there were other bottlenecks constraining performance (disk, for example, or less likely memory IO).
On an i7-860, its also likely I would have to disable hyperthreading to get the maximum possible overclock, and that might also be a less than optimal change given my workloads. For the most part, overclocking only helps if you have a saturated or nearly saturated processor core (even if the others are idle and your net CPU utilization is low). If you don't, overclocking usually can't help. Your best bet for gaining ground with overclocking on a multicore processor like an i5 or i7 is if you don't do a lot of stuff simultaneously, but you do one or two extremely CPU-intensive tasks for which the CPU speed itself is the critical bottleneck. For people trying to maximize City of Heroes performance, the CPU is probably not going to be the problem if you're starting from an i7-860 or 920, say. There are other games, on the other hand, that could tap out those CPUs, because they would saturate out a single (or pair of) cores. I just don't own any at the moment. |
In a workstation environment, such as what you run, you're absolutely right. But on a pure high end gaming machine, assuming that your hard drive is not bottlenecking you first, you want to get the load off your CPU as quickly as possible and onto your GPU(s) (technically, you want to bottleneck the monitor with more frames that it can display). Even if a thread is not fully saturated, moving the load to the GPU as quickly as possible allows the GPU to render frames at it's maximum capacity.
Now CoH/V isn't likely to be a huge problem for i3/i5/i7 CPUs at stock clocks, but CoH/V isn't the only game that I play on my PC, and I'm sure that many others like that are around here as well. If CoH/V is the only game that person here plays and huge multi-tasking capabilities are not a concern, then they can save a lot of money by going for a good Phenom II X4 with 4Gb of RAM and a Radeon HD 5750 as a Core i7 system will never come remotely close to getting fully utilized.
Quote:
It's Turbo Boost and not Hyperthreading that needs to be shut down for maximum OC of an i5/i7.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
On an i7-860, its also likely I would have to disable hyperthreading to get the maximum possible overclock, and that might also be a less than optimal change given my workloads.
|
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Basically, the 1200 number is a single one-way data transfer speed. The 4800 is the cumulative speed number. It's technical and I can't come up with a simple way to explain it right off. Perhaps someone else can but essentially 1200 = 4800. It's just two ways to say the same thing. The number to actually pay attention to is the core clock. Anything above 850MHz means it's a factory overclock model. Otherwise, yes they are all essentially the same card. The real differences come in brands, their quality, extras in the box, warranties, etc. I like XFX, some like Sapphire, Gigabyte should be good, not too certain beyond that.
Later came Double Data Rate memory or DDR. In the case with DDR, DDR2 and DDR3, memory can be accessed twice per clock cycle so effectively the clock speed is doubled. For instance DDR2-800 memory only runs at 400 MHz.
GDDR5 is a little different. Internally it's twice the bit width of older GDDR3 memory, meaning that each access gets you twice the amount of data. Multiply that with two accesses per clock and now it's like SDR memory running at four times the frequency. So 1200MHz GDDR5 is like SDR memory running at 4800MHz.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet