Ultra-mode video card shopping guide
By
5th_Player,
Posted on: 2009-11-25 11:21 in Developers' Corner
Before PCIe was AGP. Now some business targeted or ultra inexpensive systems only had PCI. If you have PCI right now, your performance isn't going to be all that great with the current 3D engine.
Ultra Mode is just an option. Something beyond the maximum settings of today for people with systems that can handle it. You aren't going to be excluded from this game if you don't have the hardware to handle Ultra Mode, you will simply have the same graphics as you have today.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
UM is entirely optional. If your system has the power to run it, you can get the new eye candy. If not, the game continues to look basically the same. There's something said somewhere in this thread that they are tweaking the regular graphics but it's mainly just to fix the issues folks have had with ATI cards from the beginning of CoH. So those with lesser systems *might* see some small improvement depending on what all the lesser fixes are but should essentially see the game just as it is now. Those with good systems or the $$ to upgrade will get to savor UM at some level.|
Originally Posted by Crayne
It seems that with all the concern about getting a new video card, no one seems to have asked the question, "Is the Ultra Mode a graphic option, or will competely override the current graphics option choices?"
If it is a complete override, then it will alienate many people who cannot afford a new graphics card, or a new computer for that matter. Many new graphics cards are configured for the PCI express slots on the motherboard. If you have an older computer (2yrs or more) you may only have the PCI slot, and the video card options for it are slim. I suggest taking a closer look at your video card to see which slot it has BEFORE rushing out to buy the new ones mentioned here, which I believe are PCI express slotted(I could be wrong.) If you are still unsure or uncomfortable then have a knowledgeable friend or a professional look at it for you. If it isnt, then there is no need to go out to buy a graphics card if you have an older computer. All you would have to do is not play in Ultra Mode untill you can upgrade your hardware. Personally, I hope this is the case. |
I'm pretty certain all the UM-level cards are PCI-e exclusively. AGP is very much a thing of the past now. So yeah, those thinking of upgrading just their video do need to take note of what their mobo will take if they're using an older machine.
There may be a little envy from those who can't do UM, but nobody is going to be required to do an upgrade just to play. UM is 100% optional.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Quote:
AI vet pets would be cool.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
They aren't really virtual cores in the same sense as the P4, but nevertheless Win7 is going to try very hard to *not* schedule threads on those cores unless you use up the other cores first, since that will generate better performance. For CoX to "utilize" all eight cores it would have to basically generate so much CPU load that it forced Windows to schedule all 8 cores, and performance would probably suffer.
CoX is actually significantly threaded; things like 3D sound and even demorecords seem to use different threads from the main compute threads. The real question is whether any version of CoX will use up more than two i7 cores' worth of computing power, even with Ultra Mode processing. If it doesn't, it really doesn't matter how many cores are in use. Two full cores of i7 power is quite a lot relative to the stated minimum system requirement. What would you use that for in terms of optional enhanced capability? Artificially intelligent veteran pets? |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be stating that there's nothing the devs can do to the engine that the OS isn't already handling in order to "spread the pain" across all the cores on a proc.
Granted, my understanding of processor engineering is nonexistent, but if that's the case, why did the devs have to enable the renderthread flag so that it could use the second thread/core in the first place?
Why is it locked down to two cores as it is? Or is it? Resource Monitor is showing me that cityofheroes.exe is using 17 threads for 13% CPU utilization with most of the action appearing to happen on CPU 0 and 6 with half as much working on 2 and 4. All the odd numbered CPUs are labeled "parked" and show almost no activity at all.
Oh. I guess it doesn't matter.
Be well, people of CoH.
13% CPU. Wow. I need me an i7 bad. 
/as long as it works, fast, it doesn't matter, that is very true. 
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Quote:
It's not that the game is locked down to two cores. It's just that only two threads really want CPU time while the others only run infrequently, not very long or they are synchronized to one of the two "main" threads meaning the main thread pauses until the this thread is done.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
AI vet pets would be cool.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be stating that there's nothing the devs can do to the engine that the OS isn't already handling in order to "spread the pain" across all the cores on a proc. Granted, my understanding of processor engineering is nonexistent, but if that's the case, why did the devs have to enable the renderthread flag so that it could use the second thread/core in the first place? Why is it locked down to two cores as it is? Or is it? Resource Monitor is showing me that cityofheroes.exe is using 17 threads for 13% CPU utilization with most of the action appearing to happen on CPU 0 and 6 with half as much working on 2 and 4. All the odd numbered CPUs are labeled "parked" and show almost no activity at all. Oh. I guess it doesn't matter. |
Right now I'm looking at 400 threads running under XP. Of those only a handful is seeing any noticeable CPU time. The rest wait patiently for when they whatever event they are keyed on to occur. Same is likely true with the game.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
I just ordered new computer parts last night. Intel Core i7 920, ATi Sapphire HD 5850 1GB, Intel X25-V 40GB SSD, 6GB PC10666 Ram. Should be near the top of the performance list for just about any PC game.
I got ATI Radeon 2100 and I wonder if it good to us Ultra-mode with it? Or do I have to get band new ATI video card?
Nacht Nova Thunder = Level 50 (Liberty) Dark Blaster/Storm Summoning - Defender
Nova Ninja = Level 50 (Liberty) spines/ Regeneration - Scrapper
CanadianMan = Level 50 (Liberty) Super Strength/Invulnerability - Tanker
LibertyBoy = Level 35 (Liberty) Stone Armor
/Fiery Melee - Tanker
Quote:
*headtilts*|
Originally Posted by NovaThunder
I got ATI Radeon 2100 and I wonder if it good to us Ultra-mode with it? Or do I have to get band new ATI video card?
|
Okay, if memory serves, the 2100 was a die shrink and clock-bumped rebadge on the 690G integrated chips. It uses the same physical chip layout as the Radeon integrated x1250.
So no. This card hasn't got a prayer of supporting Ultra Mode. If you want Ultra Mode, you'll actually have to get a real graphics card, not an integrated chipset.
Quote:
Can I point and laugh at your poor wallet for the beating it just took?|
Originally Posted by Ltn. Frost
I just ordered new computer parts last night. Intel Core i7 920, ATi Sapphire HD 5850 1GB, Intel X25-V 40GB SSD, 6GB PC10666 Ram. Should be near the top of the performance list for just about any PC game.
|
Seriously though, you're good to go.
Quote:
W7 64 bit takes 20 gigs minimum. Some games take up to and including 20 gigs. 40 gig hdd won't fit it. Plus, you have a 1.5+ tb hdd also to store non-hdd access caring things right?
|
Originally Posted by Ltn. Frost
I just ordered new computer parts last night. Intel Core i7 920, ATi Sapphire HD 5850 1GB, Intel X25-V 40GB SSD, 6GB PC10666 Ram. Should be near the top of the performance list for just about any PC game.
|
I've got my stalker Artimis Setelana. She has 317 badges last I checked. Yay!
Also 2 servers worth of alts, 3 of which aren't catgirls. Mew.
I have over 2TB of external storage. The 40GB will do just fine for the OS and apps. All games are stored externally. I work as a computer system's engineer....I think I know what I'm doing 
So, am I the only one who is worried about the lack of Sli-Support?
If so, it's going to be hard to utilize UM for me.
50's (Only most important)
Zuraq (53 EM/SR Brute)
Stagmalite (50 Granite/Fire TanK)
(Couple of other's I don't care about.)
Quote:
SLI support is something you need to bug Nvidia about.
|
Originally Posted by funnyhalo
So, am I the only one who is worried about the lack of Sli-Support?
If so, it's going to be hard to utilize UM for me. |
Quote:
ugh...damn cards that are $300+
|
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
When I spoke to the tech guys at IBuyPower.com (where I got my gaming rig), they told me the Radeon 5850 is virtually identical to the GTX 285, FWIW.
|
Is a "Radeon HD 2600 XT 512 MB GDDR3 PCI Express Graphics Card " any good compared to my Nvidia GEforce 8600 GTS?
(I copied and pasted since I am not sure if I would have excluded important information by just typing it down.)
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
Quote:
Any good graphics card for $200 price?
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
*headtilts*
Okay, if memory serves, the 2100 was a die shrink and clock-bumped rebadge on the 690G integrated chips. It uses the same physical chip layout as the Radeon integrated x1250. So no. This card hasn't got a prayer of supporting Ultra Mode. If you want Ultra Mode, you'll actually have to get a real graphics card, not an integrated chipset. |
Nacht Nova Thunder = Level 50 (Liberty) Dark Blaster/Storm Summoning - Defender
Nova Ninja = Level 50 (Liberty) spines/ Regeneration - Scrapper
CanadianMan = Level 50 (Liberty) Super Strength/Invulnerability - Tanker
LibertyBoy = Level 35 (Liberty) Stone Armor
/Fiery Melee - Tanker
Quote:
That question was answered here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...38&postcount=1
|
Originally Posted by NovaThunder
Any good graphics card for $200 price?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
Quote:
I just responded to you in another thread, so I presume this is to replace the 8600 GTS?|
Originally Posted by Gulver
Is a "Radeon HD 2600 XT 512 MB GDDR3 PCI Express Graphics Card " any good compared to my Nvidia GEforce 8600 GTS?
(I copied and pasted since I am not sure if I would have excluded important information by just typing it down.) |
The short version is: no. The HD 2x00 series was a bit of a pig's breakfast, and the base model of Nvidia's mid-range 8600 cards had no problems out-running the highest ATi 2600 model: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2007/..._hd_2600_xt/14
Driver improvements to Catalyst did eventually close the gap, so you shouldn't see any drastic changes in image quality or resolution... but it'd still be a step down.
***
Nova: If you have $200 to spend, either save a bit of cash and buy a RadeonHD 5770, or go a bit over and get a RadeonHD 4890.
The advantage to the 5770 is that it does support DX11 / OpenGL 3.2, and so far in existing games and benchmark materials, it can process DX11 commands fast enough to be playable in resolutions like 1680*1050.
The disadvantage to the 4890 is that it only supports DX10 / OpenGL 3.0, so as more games come down the pipeline, you may not get the same quality picture. That being said, the 4890 is the card that punched Nvidia's GTX 280 and 285 in the nose. Pick any DX10 game on the market, and it can pretty much do 1920*1200 with 16x Quality AF and 8x Quality AA. You can also be sure that because of the number of Nvidia 8000 series cards, 9000 series cards, GT / GTS series cards, GTX series cards, AMD RadeonHD 3000 series cards, and AMD RadeonHD 4000 series cards on the markets, it will be quite a few years before developers stop supporting DX10 / OpenGL 3.0.
Quote:
ok, I'm think about get this http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...4290420353en02 For my Video Cards let me know it good for me to us for Ultra-Mode.
|
Originally Posted by NovaThunder
Any good graphics card for $200 price?
|
Nacht Nova Thunder = Level 50 (Liberty) Dark Blaster/Storm Summoning - Defender
Nova Ninja = Level 50 (Liberty) spines/ Regeneration - Scrapper
CanadianMan = Level 50 (Liberty) Super Strength/Invulnerability - Tanker
LibertyBoy = Level 35 (Liberty) Stone Armor
/Fiery Melee - Tanker
Quote:
... |
Originally Posted by NovaThunder
ok, I'm think about get this http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...4290420353en02 For my Video Cards let me know it good for me to us for Ultra-Mode.
|
Two things.
A: It doesn't support DX11 / OpenGL 3.2.
B: That means it's in the same class of cards as the RadeonHD 4890 I just linked a post ago.
C: It's more expensive than the 4890
D: It's less powerful than the 4890. A LOT LESS POWERFUL
The 4890 is the card that puts a dent in the currently $350 Geforce GTX 280 and 285 graphics cards.
So... if you really want to spend $220 on a card that's less powerful... way less powerful... go right ahead. It simply is a waste of your money.
So what card would you reccommend that won't reduce my motherboard to slag?
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
Quote:
well, how much do you want to spend? And are you buying in reguards to running Ultra Mode?|
Originally Posted by Gulver
So what card would you reccommend that won't reduce my motherboard to slag?
|
If you are going after Ultra Mode, you'll be starting in the $100 bracket, with stuff like the GTS 250 and RadeonHD 4850. At this pricepoint, Nvidia is actually fairly competitive.
If you go over $140, pick up a RadeonHD 5750.
For about the same price though, if you watch the manufacturer rebates, you can pick up the more powerful RadeonHD 5770: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161317
If you are willing to spend $200, things get a little screwy. If you don't care about having the latest feature set, the RadeonHD 4890 is the best deal going. As I pointed out in the post just before these two, it trades blows with Nvidia cards costing over $150 more, and simply blows everything Nvidia has in the $220-$350 price points out the water.
I think the HD 5770 is the better deal in the long run... it's fast enough to actually run DirectX 11 / OpenGL 3.2 content in high resolutions.... but it's not like any game developer outside of Crytek is just going to totally abandon the DirectX 10 / OpenGL 3.0 API's... which I pointed out in ... oh.. lesse. Just 4 posts back.
If you have $250 to spend, get a RadeonHD 5830, if you have $300, get a RadeonHD 5850, and if you feel like dropping $400... you'd be looking at the RadeonHD 5870.
***
Now, from the slag comment, I take it you are worried about how much power a new graphics card will draw.
Here's the thing with the Radeon cards... they aren't actually that... power hungry. The 5870, despite being the fastest single chip GPU on the market right now, has about the same power draw and thermal profile as the RadeonHD 4870. HardOCP compared the card to the 4890 and the GTX 285.
Theoretically speaking, if your system was driving an 8600 card, you should be able to power the GTS 250, the 4850, the 5750, and the 5770 without overt concern.
Since I don't know what your wattage is, the 4890, 5850, and 5870 might be a bit out reach.
Quote:
How can I find that out?
| Since I don't know what your wattage is, the 4890, 5850, and 5870 might be a bit out reach. |
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
And for the slag comment, I've heard... "Stories" about people buying the most expensive graphic card they could and ending up frying their motherboard and losing everything due to incompatiablity or too much power.
Not sure if I'm recalling it correctly or to the accuracy of said stories.
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
It seems that with all the concern about getting a new video card, no one seems to have asked the question, "Is the Ultra Mode a graphic option, or will competely override the current graphics option choices?"
If it is a complete override, then it will alienate many people who cannot afford a new graphics card, or a new computer for that matter. Many new graphics cards are configured for the PCI express slots on the motherboard. If you have an older computer (2yrs or more) you may only have the PCI slot, and the video card options for it are slim. I suggest taking a closer look at your video card to see which slot it has BEFORE rushing out to buy the new ones mentioned here, which I believe are PCI express slotted(I could be wrong.) If you are still unsure or uncomfortable then have a knowledgeable friend or a professional look at it for you.
If it isnt, then there is no need to go out to buy a graphics card if you have an older computer. All you would have to do is not play in Ultra Mode untill you can upgrade your hardware. Personally, I hope this is the case.