Human Form Warshade build critique

I have finally decided to make a Kheldian and have decided to go with a Human-Form Warshade. I have put a build together and I'm surprised at how happy I am with how it looks. It does rely heavily on +Recharge so avoiding Mobs with -Recharge effects will be important while solo'ing but other than that one Achilles Heel, it looks like this could be quite the beast.

Operating under the assumption that I'll be able to stealth into any group and hit at least 4 mobs with Eclipse (which is perma in this build) and Sunless Mire, I'll be fighting at +80% RES to S,L,F,C,E,N and 67% Res to T,P to go along with a constant 78% Damage Buff.

Please take a peak at this (very expensive, but affordable) build and tell me if I'm crazy to be excited to hit 50 with this guy.

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Are you already 50? The journey to 50 tends to be much easier with the forms.

Comments on the build however:

Put the Steadfast Protection -KB in Absorbtion, with Eclipse you don't need the extra resists so don't need the slots there, so you will free up 2 slots (One from Absorbtion, one from Gravity Shield).

You have slotted for defence but missed the opportunity to get BoTZ sets into all the free travel powers.

The human shields are useless with perma-Eclipse. I would swap Gravity Shield for Gravimetric Snare for better set bonus' if you have the slots spare, or the Chance for Hold proc if you don't (When you get hit with -recharge you might have to use it, so the proc could work nicely here)

Eclipse can be frankenslotted with 4 res/end IO's for better numbers.

Ebon Eye with the Chance for Build Up proc might be good since you will be using it a lot. Though Shadow Bolt is actually a better attack (Faster animation so better DPA) and will recharge faster so help fill your attack chain better.

The Fitness pool isn't really necessary (Considering you can get 40 end from killing 1 foe with Stygian Circle), consider dropping it for Combat Jumping andSuperjump or Superspeed. You can slot an extra LoTG +7.5% and some BoTZ sets then.

You might consider picking up and running Inky Aspect as the third choice, it stuns minions, can get some good set bonus' and has very little cost.

My favourite slotting for Dark Extraction is 4 Expedient Reinforcement and only 2 from Soulbound Allegiance (Including the proc). You get more global recharge and similar numbers.

No Gravatic Emination? This is one of the best control powers in the game. Added to Inky Aspect can stun bosses. (The tactic is open with Gravatic Emination to position the mobs, run in with Inky Aspect on, stunning all that wasn't stunned, hit Sunless Mire)

Consider putting the +stealth IO into sprint, or one of the prestige sprints if you have it. It will be cheaper and easier to activate that way.

Lastly the defence from Shadow Cloak is mostly supressed, so might not be worth enhancing (I am not sure about exact %'s).

I would get a Winters Gift Slow Resistance somewhere too.

Other than that it looks a good solid build

Here is what I came up with after my changes:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Shade of Destruction: Level 50 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Bolt -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(3), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Build%(34)
Level 1: Absorption -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 2: Gravimetric Snare -- GravAnch-Hold%(A)
Level 4: Orbiting Death -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(5), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Armgdn-Dam%(7)
Level 6: Shadow Blast -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(9), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Apoc-Dam%(11)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 12: Sunless Mire -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(13), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Oblit-%Dam(17)
Level 14: Shadow Cloak -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17), Zephyr-ResKB(31)
Level 18: Gravity Well -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(19), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Hectmb-Dam%(21), UbrkCons-Dam%(27)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Stygian Circle -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(25), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(25), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Unchain Essence -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(33), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Ragnrk-Knock%(34)
Level 28: Inky Aspect -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(29), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(29), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(37), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Weave -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(43), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 32: Dark Extraction -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), S'bndAl-Build%(37), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(45), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx(40), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 38: Eclipse -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(39), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(39)
Level 41: Gravitic Emanation -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(42), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(46), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(46), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(48)
Level 44: Dark Detonation -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50), Zephyr-ResKB(50)
Level 49: Stygian Return -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Sustenance
Level 1: Shadow Step -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Empty(A)
------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

If I were forced at gunpoint to do a human build this is probably very similar to what I would
build. Though i would probably just let them shoot me instead. I would swap the whole fighting/leadership pools to something more like the concealment pool though as well as pick up the nuke, and gravitic emmination for offencive ability to not be slaughtered.

I already know your against the forms so I wont bother attempting to lure you but in the interest of others thinking this looks good i'll point out almost all your damage is going to be on a lower damage scaler as well as lacking the 45% damage boost your granted for squid form and have no ability to avoid mezz with dwarf form.

As I said, within the constraints you have placed on your build this is about as good as you will get other than the changes i mentioned.

Two points.

1. You have neither Gravitic Emanation nor Inky Aspect, and not nearly enough defense to be blasé about mez in the late game. Without dwarf form to fall back on, mezzing first is your only protection against being mezzed yourself. Nothing--nothing--sucks more than jumping into a big spawn, hitting Eclipse and Sunless, and then doing the drunk walk for 40 seconds while all that lovely buff goes to waste.

Actually, that's not entirely true, because while you are watching the pretty stars your kooshes will try to tank for you. I say try, because they are about as resilient as a level 32 blaster with an unreasoning faith in the power of an unslotted Nova.

By which I mean not very.

2. For all I know this may have been fixed by now, but last I knew the T&S stealth proc had the unfortunate quirk of suppressing for ten seconds when you teleport. You can work around that, but you would be better off sticking the run version in Sprint. Or getting SS.

Holy CRAP, I KNEW there was a reason I waited for other replies to this before I responded... There is more human-form hate/ignorance than I thought possible from some of the biggest "Kheld heavy hitters."

I don't mean to be mean, but I'll have to say, Black Aftermath, that these guys who have given you advice so far do not play human-form Warshades. They're giving advice based on their own dislike of human-form warshades and from what they know on "paper" to be true--many points of which in my (documented and undocumented) *experience* are NOT true. Say, for example, the statement saying that you'd be teleporting into a group only to be walking around mezzed the entire time.

If that WERE true, that would mean that all tri-formers would have the same exact attack chain: 1. teleport in and hit eclipse and 2. switch to dwarf form and fight the rest of the time.

Now, if THAT attack chain were true, that just completely trashes any numbers Darkstar just threw out. You know why? Because just like human form, nova form doesn't have mez protection. And you know what else? If getting mezzed is THAT bad, Darkstar's "double-mire" theory ALSO goes down the drain, because dropping from dwarf down to human form is only going to have you dropping back down into "mezzed" form.

And that's just one example.

That said, I will say that I do respect Darkstar's and Obsidian's opinion on Khelds, because they have obviously played Khelds for some time, and know enough about them to be helpful. However, I've learned that some of what they say needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because a lot of the numbers they give are based on the "perfect situation" theory.

However, I've proven, not on "paper," but in actual documented experience that a human-form Warshade is not only highly capable of surviving just about any situation (no matter the extremety), a human-former is devastating enough to take down any sort of mob solo, without the need of the other forms to get the job done.

Now, in the tri-former's defense, I will say you could get the job done *a few seconds faster,* but in the case of both a tri-former and a human-former, the job would STILL get done. By "the job," I of course mean taking down a mob.

THAT is the main gripe I have for any tri-former giving advice on a human-form Kheldian. They are speaking from not only their dislike of human-formers, they're also speaking from only what they know on paper, and not true experience. Or, if they ARE speaking from experience, it sounds as if they are speaking from a failed experience.

All that said, I will answer your question: No, you are NOT crazy to be excited about having a level 50 human-form Warshade. I can already tell that's the playstyle you prefer, and I can also see you are the sort of person who is willing to pay the influence it takes to make a human-former completely devastating. And by devastating, I mean devastating.

I think it's a little hilarious that though the tri-former's main argument is that "OMG, there is a HUGE damage disparity between us!" they forget to note that a human-former can, for example, take down, say, the entire mob in front of Imperious in the same amount of time that it takes the entire rest of the team to take down the mobs on the bridge at the beginning of the map on an iTF.

And, that's just one example. Here's another: Me and another Warshade duo'd the entire last map on the LGTF after the rest of the team had gone. How long did it take us? Surely 4 hours, since "we were walking around mezzed the entire time," right? Nope.

10 or 15 minutes.

While I'm sure a tri-former would come on here and say "Well, I could do it in 5," it's important to note the MAIN POINT: a human-former can do it.

I'm a bit tired of this overly negative tone towards human-formers.

If someone wants to make one, it's their decision. Help them or get out of the way. I can admit to a tri-former having better damage and an easier time of leveling... Now can YOU admit that a human-former is not only capable of getting the job done, it can be GOOD at it?

Regardless of whether or not YOU would choose to play a human-former yourself "even if at gunpoint," you cannot deny that *already proved* fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar Are you already 50? The journey to 50 tends to be much easier with the forms.

Agreed. However, if you choose to play a human-former, it'll be just as fun. Just not as "easy."

It's definitely a challenge. A fun challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar Comments on the build however: Put the Steadfast Protection -KB in Absorbtion, with Eclipse you don't need the extra resists so don't need the slots there, so you will free up 2 slots (One from Absorbtion, one from Gravity Shield).

The more resist you put on Eclipse, the fewer enemies you need to get a capped resist. That's pretty obvious. So, if he's trying to solo on "normal" difficulty settings, that's important to note. On a full team, that'll matter a little less.

It's also important to note that in your build, Eclipse is NOT "perma." It has a full eleven second downtime, which is devastating in any difficult/overwhelming situation. Therefore, for that reason alone, I would consider a "non-perma Eclipse" human-only build a complete "phail." Not really the smartest way to slot eclipse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar You have slotted for defence but missed the opportunity to get BoTZ sets into all the free travel powers. The human shields are useless with perma-Eclipse. I would swap Gravity Shield for Gravimetric Snare for better set bonus' if you have the slots spare, or the Chance for Hold proc if you don't (When you get hit with -recharge you might have to use it, so the proc could work nicely here)

I wouldn't say they are completely "useless." I would say they are "less useful." A Gravity Shield is still a better choice (for set bonuses, getting hit with -recharge for a slow eclipse recovery, and the fact that most enemies in the game have smashing/lethal attacks of some kind) than Gravimetric Snare. However, this could be debateable, and could depend on playstyle, and whether or not you want the extra endurance recovery.

On the subject of defense, I'm not sure looking at 15% and 19% defense on a build is necessarily "slotting for defense." It's more of a "more defense is nice if I can get it," position, not a "I will sacrifice my damage output for more defense" position. While I'll say your 26% defense is better than his 15% defense, I'll also direct you to this, and mention that it's really not that much better when looking at the big picture. If you're losing slots or powers that could up your damage/damage mitigation potential just so you can slot for 10% more defense...

...I'd say that belongs in the same category you tri-formers place someone "who doesn't take dwarf form for mez protection."

Nice, but not *necessary for survival*.

In fact, I'll go even further:

In my personal experience (and this has been backed by several accounts on these very forums), the Dwarf form toggle is just a "delay my death for a minute longer" toggle.

Sure, they buffed the forms not too far back, but if you're using Dwarf form as the tri-formers suggest (for mez protection in mez-heavy mobs, or as a "oh crap I need to survive!" button), you're just delaying the inevitable. A dwarf's damage (in any extreme situation) is not going to be enough to "put you over the top." You can't switch to nova for "more damage," because you'll be mezzed, remember? You can't switch to Human-form, because you'll be mezzed, remember?

You could then say "Well, I could use a break free," but, then you're just placing yourself in the same boat as a human-form Warshade.

So, it's either put out some major damage attack chains in human or nova form, or get stuck in lolDwarf form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar Eclipse can be frankenslotted with 4 res/end IO's for better numbers.

Actually, no, it can't. I'm suprised one of the "mathematician" types would even suggest this.

As stated before, your Eclipse is not perma in your posted build. It has a 101.7 second recharge with Hasten. Eclipse's duration is 90 seconds. That's an 11(almost 12)-second downtime.

Now, if you had franken-slotted with Resistance/Recharge IOs instead of Resistance/Endurance IOs, then you'd have a 76.9 second recharge. However, although this may be a *few seconds* faster than slotting it with, say, 1 recharge IO and 4 Impervium Armors, it would not technically be "better numbers," as the franken-slotting would have no set bonuses associated with it, while doing the recharge IO/4 Impervium Armor thing would give you an endurance recovery bonus, up your total Endurance, AND keep your Eclipse "perma."

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar Ebon Eye with the Chance for Build Up proc might be good since you will be using it a lot. Though Shadow Bolt is actually a better attack (Faster animation so better DPA) and will recharge faster so help fill your attack chain better.

No argument here, except I will mention this:

If you've got a +recharge build, and everything is coming up THAT fast (Shadow Blast every 2 seconds, Dark Detonation every 5 seconds, and Gravity Well every 5 or 6 seconds), you'll find that you don't even use your Ebon Eye during an attack chain. Your higher damage power Gravity Well will be back up before you're done using Shadow Blast and Dark Detonation alone.

So, if you're thinking in terms of that, putting more than 1 slot into Ebon Eye really is just a waste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar The Fitness pool isn't really necessary (Considering you can get 40 end from killing 1 foe with Stygian Circle), consider dropping it for Combat Jumping andSuperjump or Superspeed. You can slot an extra LoTG +7.5% and some BoTZ sets then.

Actually, it's very, very useful for a human-former, and I wouldn't advise skipping over it, ESPECIALLY after looking at your build... With your toggles, you're consuming nearly as much endurance as what your recovery rate is just standing there. Start working in a few attacks, and your endurance bar drops like a rock, unless you got some endurance recovery to counter that.

Try facing some +3s or +4s with that recovery/usage ratio, and come back and tell me if you can take down a minion (especially if you're fighing Arachnos, Malta, or Carnies) in enough time to use your Stygian Circle before your endurance runs out. Then come talk to me about the fitness pool being "not needed" with that sort of endurance usage in a build like that.

That's not even taking into consideration what it would be like to take down anything OTHER than a minion (especially after that minion you just killed has disappeared, making Stygian Circle useless) with that sort of recovery/usage ratio.

I'm suprised at what you guys (not just you, Darkstar) don't take into consideration, considering how much I've been berated about "not using numbers" to prove a point.

Laughable. Just laughable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar You might consider picking up and running Inky Aspect as the third choice, it stuns minions, can get some good set bonus' and has very little cost. My favourite slotting for Dark Extraction is 4 Expedient Reinforcement and only 2 from Soulbound Allegiance (Including the proc). You get more global recharge and similar numbers.

I tend to agree with you here... Expedient Reinforcement is actually a better set for +global recharge builds... Soulbount Allegiance is nice, but not really "necessary" for a Warshade's pets... I find that purple set benefits my fire/kin better than my Warshade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar No Gravatic Emination? This is one of the best control powers in the game. Added to Inky Aspect can stun bosses. (The tactic is open with Gravatic Emination to position the mobs, run in with Inky Aspect on, stunning all that wasn't stunned, hit Sunless Mire)

Although I don't like the power personally (because of KB problems, and having to run back out of melee range for a good hit--therefore making me have to hit it first before going into a mob, and possibly ruining my Eclipse hit.... Yeah... the cons outweigh the pros in this situation for me), it can be pretty powerful if used correctly.

It's one of those "use with caution" powers though... Especially if you're on a team that has problems with KB, due to lack of control.

This power choice is completely up to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar Consider putting the +stealth IO into sprint, or one of the prestige sprints if you have it. It will be cheaper and easier to activate that way.

Agreed. I just did this myself recently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar Lastly the defence from Shadow Cloak is mostly supressed, so might not be worth enhancing (I am not sure about exact %'s). I would get a Winters Gift Slow Resistance somewhere too. Other than that it looks a good solid build Here is what I came up with after my changes: Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build!

Also agreed... Considering the second you put out a single attack your Shadow Cloak defense gets supressed, putting that many slots into it is a bit of a waste here.

I'll also mention that Darkstar's build is *mostly* good, though I'll reiterate that not having perma-Eclipse will kill you, and having any global recharge over 180% (for perma Hasten) is a bit funny, considering that changes very little (Gravity Well recharges in 5.44 seconds with your 177.5% recharge build, whereas it recharges in 5.2 seconds with Darkstar's 195% recharge build... The change is so minute, it's really not worth it, unless what you're going for is "bragging rights for "build with highest recharge.")

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2 If I were forced at gunpoint to do a human build this is probably very similar to what I would build. Though i would probably just let them shoot me instead. I would swap the whole fighting/leadership pools to something more like the concealment pool though as well as pick up the nuke, and gravitic emmination for offencive ability to not be slaughtered.

Wow, you get on to me for "presenting human-form as the best way to go," and yet I can't berate you for making it look as if "you're just going to get slaughtered!"

I call BS.

I can survive "without getting slaughtered" just fine without Gravitic Emination

Also, swapping out fighting/leadership pools for concealment?

Are you friggin' kidding me?

Wow.

I need to just shut my mouth now, before I get this thread needlessly closed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar I already know your against the forms so I wont bother attempting to lure you but in the interest of others thinking this looks good i'll point out almost all your damage is going to be on a lower damage scaler as well as lacking the 45% damage boost your granted for squid form and have no ability to avoid mezz with dwarf form. As I said, within the constraints you have placed on your build this is about as good as you will get other than the changes i mentioned.

Actually, It DOES "look good," when considering the points I've already mentioned:

1. It gets the job done
2. There would be only a few seconds difference between the time it took to get a mob down with a human-former and a tri-former.

So, conversely, so people don't think you are presenting a human-form build as "looking bad," I'll go ahead and say,

"It looks good."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderslug Two points. 1. You have neither Gravitic Emanation nor Inky Aspect, and not nearly enough defense to be blasé about mez in the late game. Without dwarf form to fall back on, mezzing first is your only protection against being mezzed yourself. Nothing--nothing--sucks more than jumping into a big spawn, hitting Eclipse and Sunless, and then doing the drunk walk for 40 seconds while all that lovely buff goes to waste. Actually, that's not entirely true, because while you are watching the pretty stars your kooshes will try to tank for you. I say try, because they are about as resilient as a level 32 blaster with an unreasoning faith in the power of an unslotted Nova. By which I mean not very. 2. For all I know this may have been fixed by now, but last I knew the T&S stealth proc had the unfortunate quirk of suppressing for ten seconds when you teleport. You can work around that, but you would be better off sticking the run version in Sprint. Or getting SS.

What have you been fighting that causes you to walk around for 40 seconds stunned? Is Rikti Raids seriously all you do with your human-form Warshade?

Oh, wait... Let me guess... You don't have a human-form warshade, or you wound up deleting it a while back.

That said, I will say yes, it does suck if you're immediately hit with a mezz the second you go in. But, in actuality, unless you're consistently going up against the most difficult enemies/mob sizes in the friggin' game, you're not going to be experiencing that as often as you're presenting that it will happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar Conclusion: Human only AoE is very lacking even compared to Black Dwarf, and although single target damage is respectable it is only comparable to Black Dwarf. Meaning you will never outdamage a tri-former in any situation. I know the reason most people pick human only isn't straight damage however, but it is worth knowing this.

Can you get me the numbers or how you calculated this? Because Black Dwarf (from what I've seen) can't even come CLOSE to comparing to my human-only AoE numbers. Either your numbers or wrong, or your opinion is biased or skewed.

Last I checked, Black Dwarf only has two possible (damaging) attacks that can affect several targets at once (not counting having a proc in the taunt, and even that only hits the enemy you're currently targeting), and that's including Dark Extractions being up.

Human has six.

And you say Human-only AoE is lacking compared to Dwarf?

What have you been smoking? Can I have some?

I REALLY would like to see someone in Dwarf take down a mob faster than my human-former can. Really. I would.

What? You say that's not what you meant?

Then don't present it like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black_Aftermath I have finally decided to make a Kheldian and have decided to go with a Human-Form Warshade. I have put a build together and I'm surprised at how happy I am with how it looks. It does rely heavily on +Recharge so avoiding Mobs with -Recharge effects will be important while solo'ing but other than that one Achilles Heel, it looks like this could be quite the beast. Operating under the assumption that I'll be able to stealth into any group and hit at least 4 mobs with Eclipse (which is perma in this build) and Sunless Mire, I'll be fighting at +80% RES to S,L,F,C,E,N and 67% Res to T,P to go along with a constant 78% Damage Buff. Please take a peak at this (very expensive, but affordable) build and tell me if I'm crazy to be excited to hit 50 with this guy.

You might want to check this guide out before you spend all that influence...

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

It's no secret i do actually hate human only builds, I have been pretty plain about that.

The reason is because I have played human only for the first 40 levels on a semi-heavily IO'ed out WS. Now i'm sure this will undoubtably call my play skills into question on a human only build but before we go there, I can jump onto any of my 32 characters of all different AT's, Power sets, levels and degrees of Io'ed'outness and give a pretty good accounting of myself.

On my WS's I give better. I simply play that much and attempt different styles and builds when I do. I play WS's nearly 95% of my playtime.

In my experience, with every concievable (to me) build, slotting, and style my human form only WS's perform so far below my Tri-Formers of equivilent level and IO'ed'ness that it's actually painful for me to watch my damage output and wait while the stuns wear off or burn through yet more little pills to breakfree.

I never deneighed (sp) my hatred of human only builds (far from it) but in my experience anything a human only is able to do they could do it alot easier if they put the same time learning tri-forming as they did the "every other humanish AT in the game that plays nearly the same way".

I'm not saying "Don't play human builds". I'm simply saying I do not believe they are able to do the same things with the same ease or ability given players of equal skill and price range of build.

And amazingly enough I can have this opinion without demanding everyone subscribe to it.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

I find it interesting that, although you have an (admitted) hatred for human-only builds, you still somehow find it necessary to participate in "giving advice" for a human-only build thread.

Interesting, considering you don't "demand everyone subscribe to your opinion."

That's like saying, "I absolutely can't stand lasagna, but I'll give you the recipe on how to make a great dish of lasagna!"

Who exactly would want that recipe?

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Which proves my point that if you're a tri-former facing heavy mezz enemies, you're stuck in lolDwarf.

The entire time.

Good luck with taking down an entire mob of Malta while in Dwarf, especially since it'll take you longer than what your Eclipse lasts to do it!



"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Good point.

But, I'd have a bit of caution eating a dish that someone told me straight out that they hate--if in fact, they were the one that made it.

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

That doesn't even remotely begin to make sense.

If you've got dwarf you're magically "stuck" in dwarf form, but if you don't have dwarf you're free to not use the dwarf form you don't have? I mean, what?

Huh?

Re-read what I wrote previously in my first post (in the section after I responded to your first quote) and come back to me...

I'm still trying to make sense of what you just said.

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Let me try another attempt at this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienOne Say, for example, the statement saying that you'd be teleporting into a group only to be walking around mezzed the entire time. If that WERE true, that would mean that all tri-formers would have the same exact attack chain: 1. teleport in and hit eclipse and 2. switch to dwarf form and fight the rest of the time. Now, if THAT attack chain were true, that just completely trashes any numbers Darkstar just threw out. You know why? Because just like human form, nova form doesn't have mez protection. And you know what else? If getting mezzed is THAT bad, Darkstar's "double-mire" theory ALSO goes down the drain, because dropping from dwarf down to human form is only going to have you dropping back down into "mezzed" form.

Going on what YOU GUYS have said in the past about being mezzed (go to Dwarf! Go to Dwarf! You're going to be mezzed for at least 40 seconds! Walking around in human form mezzed for 40 seconds sucks! Why use a break free when you have Dwarf form!)....

What other alternative do you have if NOT dwarf to escape from being mezzed?

Is there another form you guys use that I'm not familiar with?

It's Dwarf, am I correct?

And according to Darkstar, Dwarf is better at multiple-target damage than human-only?

If this is the case, then what's the point to "form dancing?"

Seriously...

Can you not see the disparity in your arguments against human-formers and your OWN playstyles?

Let's just set aside the "yay, I can take down a mob faster than you!" arguments for a second.

You say, "walking around in human form for 40 seconds sucks."

You're a tri-former, right? Can't you hit Dwarf?

You say, "I can form dance."

But, didn't you just also say that the mez lasts for "40 seconds?" Contrary to popular belief, Dwarf form is NOT the equivalent to a "break free." Dropping back to human form OR trying to switch to nova during a "40 second mez" will just drop you back to a mezzed human form.

Right?

You say, "Dwarf form has better multiple-target damage than human form."

So, why not stay in Dwarf form and take the mob down... "Makes sense," right?



You're killin' me.



While I'm on a "tangent," Obsidian (or should I call you "Chef?"), you say you'd skip the leadership pools and go for the concealment pool? Why on earth would you do that?

Warshades have a built-in stealth pool in human form! That includes the stealth AND the "phase" power... Why take concealment? for an extra two LotG +recharges? How about putting those two LotG +Recharges in the 2 leadership powers Maneuvers and Vengeance? You can get the same recharge, get better defense/damage/ToHit, and STILL have "stealth/invis/phase!"

You're the expert in "numbers," right? Work out how getting the concealment pool would be better than getting the leadership pool on paper and bring me your results...

You really ARE killin' me.

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

I'm actually kind of the opposite, I wish people would stop using team performance to say that something does or doesn't perform well.

I could use a well built team to say a Pure Empath rocks and does "loads of damage with her single teir one attack".

Yes.

Because all the videos I've posted of VestigeOne's performance have been based on "what he can do on a team."

lmao.

While we're speaking of "team performance," that reminds me...

...which AT in this game has inherents that are based off of "being on a team?"

I seem to have temporarily forgotten.



This is truly a great thread.

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

The comment was directed to LX not you.

Dispite what you may or may not believe everything on this forum isn't about you and your vids, builds, and opinions. And thats actually not such a bad thing.

LOLZ I'm luvin it. Great thread LOLZ.

Please, just back off.

Oops, almost forgot, the answer is: Tanks, Defenders, and Kheldians blue side.

My bad... You didn't quote him, and it was directly after one of my posts. Therefore, I could only assume it was directed at me.

Usually if something is directed at someone else further up in a thread, they quote that individual.

My apologies.

You still haven't answered my question(s).

If your advice is "so great," back it up. Say why you'd make those build choices.

That's what anyone expects from someone giving advice on any build for any AT.

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

I've read it several times now. You said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienOne Which proves my point that if you're a tri-former facing heavy mezz enemies, you're stuck in lolDwarf. The entire time.

This appears to rest on the assumption that if you have dwarf you must use it, because there are no other tools in your arsenal that will allow you to succeed. I cannot see any other way to interpret "stuck in lolDwarf. The entire time." Especially since you follow it up with

Quote:

Good luck with taking down an entire mob of Malta while in Dwarf, especially since it'll take you longer than what your Eclipse lasts to do it!

The only way that even begins to "prove" anything like your point ("if you're a tri-former facing heavy mezz enemies, you're stuck in lolDwarf") is if you first assume that having a triform (or, presumably, biform? I ditched Nova long ago) build necessitates sacrificing other forms beyond all hope of utility. That's not a reasonable assumption to make.