Night Widow versus Claws/SR

Hello,

I'm wondering what the primary differences are between a Night Widow and Claws/SR brutes (or scrappers, for that matter), particularly when it comes to fighting difficult enemies like AVs. I know that /SR has far more defense debuff resistance than Night Widows, which seems to be an advantage for them. Is there anything that gives Night Widows advantages over AVs that would make up for the lack of defense debuff resistance?

Thank-you in advance for the insight!

I haven't done the number crunching myself, but if I recall correctly:
They softcap more easily;
They can reach superior single target damage;
They have team buffs.

SR is far easier to softcap. NWś 200+ chains devours endurance.

Don't forget about SR scaling resistance as HP drops down.

edit* I suppose that is a mark in the SR tab instead of the NW column.

NWs can reach 50-55% defense with ease, which give them some room to deal with the rare AVs with slight tohit buffs.

NWs have high psionic resist.

... That's all I got. NWs aren't good AV soloers in my experience, the low base HP makes even the easier AVs more challenging than on a scrapper/brute seeing as you can get killed in two lucky shots by pretty much anything that isn't psi.

Personally, after experimenting for a bit I went with a melee fortunata. FU, Lunge, Strike, Swipe with Aim does about the same DPS as FU, Slash, Lunge, Strike, Swipe, and Confuse makes it a bit easier (either perma-confuse a lieutenant to add DPS, or confuse the AV when purple triangles are down for extra mitigation). While ML is harder to perma, the recharge required to run the above chain makes it so anyway.

The only downside I've seen on melee forts compared to NWs is you lack Elude and/or Placate against defense debuffs, but running away until the debuff wears off works just as well for me.

I'm not saying a melee fort is a good AV soloer, though ; it still is subpar compared to my scrapper/brute builds, which are way below debuff ATs... Still, it worked better than NWs for me.

Its great on paper, but we have many disadvantages compared to SR. Defense debuffs make me sad Also having to cast mind link slows our dps. Using Aid Self completely destroys my dps, but SR probably has the same problem.

I'm not getting anywhere near 229 DPS with Aim and ML. Are you taking in consideration misses ? At a quick glance on your calcs, I don't see it.

After considering the time spent using Hasten, Aim (for the fort) and ML, I ended up at 207 DPS for the fort chain, and 205 DPS for the NW.

nope, don't factor in misses

You need to figure in redraw times. I have no idea what the redraw would be on those attacks, but for claws calculating in redraw when I was attempting to add gloom to one of my brute claws users caused a *substantial* decrease in DPS. And that was with factoring in Gloom's considerable damage.

If you want to get an estimate, claws redraw takes ~.63 seconds. If I recall correctly, Widow redraw might be the same, but again, that's going off of memory and may not be accurate.

I got both to 50 with expensive IO builds. And I can say the NW is better on almost every aspect, but that's for me. I like my Claws/SR much too, she's a great toon, but I feel the NW has more tricks under her sleeve and is more diverse and entertaining to play.

Note that I don't exactly play a NW, but a melee Fort, which is a slightly different concept, but not that far. She has a strong ST chain however, and insane dps. None of my scrapper could damage a Rikti Pylon as fast as her, but maybe my DM/SD.

Thank-you all for the information. Really, I'm not surprised that night widow isn't the best for AV soloing, since it gets quite a bit more AOE damage than claws. While Claws/SR has Spin, Focus and Eviscerate, Night Widow has Spin, Eviscerate, Spine Burst and the Psi Cone (Psychic Scream), in addition to the team buffs.

The idea of a melee Fortuna sounds very interesting, though. Would you two mind posting your builds, or at least your power choices? I'd love to see them.

This build was made before I16. Dropping Psy Wail and Aura of Confusion for a prerequisite power and Shatter Armor would improve it for AV soloing, but it'd be boring as hell for normal playing.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1,601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

"": Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Fortunata Training
Secondary Power Set: Fortunata Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), EndRdx-I(9)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), EndRdx-I(13)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(5), GftotA-Def/Rchg(5), GftotA-Run+(50), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 6: Aim -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(34), AdjTgt-Rchg(37), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(37), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 8: Follow Up -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(15), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21), Mrcl-Rcvry+(31), Mrcl-Heal(31), RgnTis-Regen+(31)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23), P'Shift-EndMod(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(25)
Level 24: Foresight -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(25), GftotA-Def/Rchg(29), GftotA-Run+(40), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 26: Mind Link -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(27), HO:Membr(27)
Level 28: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def(29), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(43), GftotA-Def/Rchg(45), GftotA-Run+(48)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(43), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Stimulant -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Psychic Wail -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Aura of Confusion -- Mlais-Acc/Rchg(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(39), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(39), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(39), Mlais-Conf/Rng(40)
Level 41: Confuse -- CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(A), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(42), CoPers-Conf(42), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(42), CoPers-Conf%(43)
Level 44: Aid Self -- IntRdx-I(A), Numna-Heal(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(45), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
------------

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