May we have more unlockable weapons?

Samuel_Tow · 11-04-2009 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsidius

The pic was not captured in that condition; it was obviously put through a filter in a photo editing software to stylize it to look like a color pencil sketch. IOW, it was made that way on purpose. Take it or leave it

Oh... OK, in that case, RUN AWAY!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Energizing_Ion · 11-04-2009 02:32 PM

Looked 'normal' to me...then again I play on the lowest graphical settings all the time

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gec72 · 11-04-2009 02:46 PM

Yeah, the gamma is a little high on that, but otherwise that's not that far off from what CoH looks like on the computer I played on my first three years (it looks considerably better on my newer box).

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EU_Damz · 11-04-2009 02:59 PM

The new ultra mode graphics took a horrible turn somewhere

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firespray · 11-04-2009 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Enough with this unlockable crap, please. Pardon my word choice, but it's really starting to drive me up the wall. Unless you want to enable costume unlocks to be account-wide, then the LESS unlockable weapons we have, the better.

Now, the "more weapons" sentiment I can very much echo. Please, please give us more weapons. But actually GIVE us the weapons, don't slap them on some level 35+ content or behind a terrible grind.

This, a thousand times. My katana scrapper is driving me nuts waiting til 35 when I can get the talsorian blade. I hate unlockable crap.

beyeajus · 11-04-2009 03:27 PM

lol, I had no idea everyone was so against working towards them.

Well if that's the case, me too! GIMMIE IT ALL NAO!!! =D

je_saist · 11-04-2009 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firespray

This, a thousand times. My katana scrapper is driving me nuts waiting til 35 when I can get the talsorian blade. I hate unlockable crap.

question. If the devs gave everything to the players straight off... what would be the point of actually playing the game itself? Or have just that many players forgotten that City of Heroes is a GAME?

Samuel_Tow · 11-04-2009 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist

question. If the devs gave everything to the players straight off... what would be the point of actually playing the game itself? Or have just that many players forgotten that City of Heroes is a GAME?

Slippery slope arguments always fail. No-one's asking for everything. People are asking for costume items which have precisely zero practical benefit other than looking cool. As long as they're going to be working on new pieces, I'd rather they didn't work on developing new ways to lock them, or otherwise I would like them to let me unlock them globally. Waiting and working for items once is fun. Working and waiting a few times is passable. On every damn character, it's a chore and nothing.

Please stop equating costume pieces with "everything" and we won't have to repeat the SAME DAMN ARGUMENT we've been recycling for the last five years. I'm getting tired or repeating myself, and that's saying something coming from me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Ssyrie · 11-04-2009 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist

question. If the devs gave everything to the players straight off... what would be the point of actually playing the game itself? Or have just that many players forgotten that City of Heroes is a GAME?

I think the problem is that players come up with character concepts that can't be built at level 1 because you have to level up before you can unlock certain costume pieces/weapons. I can understand the frustration, especially with the Talsorian equipment which requires you to be level 35 before you can earn the merits to unlock it. Also the Cimeroran unlockables require being able to get into the Midnighters club which you can't do at level 1 either.

Lord Mayhem · 11-04-2009 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Enough with this unlockable crap, please. Pardon my word choice, but it's really starting to drive me up the wall. Unless you want to enable costume unlocks to be account-wide, then the LESS unlockable weapons we have, the better.

Now, the "more weapons" sentiment I can very much echo. Please, please give us more weapons. But actually GIVE us the weapons, don't slap them on some level 35+ content or behind a terrible grind.

I completely agree with you, Sam. In particular it irks me that I cannot have a Roman-themed character until after I have done the ITF.

Veteran reward costumes annoy me too when they have no parallels in the costume creator that don't require any kind of unlocking (even though I have almost all of the vet reward costume pieces I want - all I'm really waiting for is the boxing pieces and I get those in 8 days time, as one of my characters is a boxer). The samurai armour would especially irk me as a new player - having to wait 18 months to make a samurai concept character - there are 3 styles, so why couldn't one of them have been made available to all leaving two variants for the vet reward? Ditto with trenchcoats, boxing gloves/shorts and wings. Tech Sleek is fine, because there are several other tech armour options available to new players at character creation.

In most cases I would rather that the Devs issued a basic costume of a certain type to all players and have the more attractive variants being the in-game unlockables or vet rewards. E.g. a basic trenchcoat available to all (think Columbo style), but a leather trenchcoat being the 3 month vet reward (as it is now) - and I wish basic Roman Legionary armour had been available to all when I12 was released, but have more fancy Tribune/Legate-styled Roman armour unlockable by the ITF.

This way no concepts are blocked at character creation, but there are still interesting and attractive variants to unlock through gameplay that players will strive for - i.e. everybody wins.

je_saist · 11-04-2009 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Slippery slope arguments always fail. No-one's asking for everything. People are asking for costume items which have precisely zero practical benefit other than looking cool. As long as they're going to be working on new pieces, I'd rather they didn't work on developing new ways to lock them, or otherwise I would like them to let me unlock them globally. Waiting and working for items once is fun. Working and waiting a few times is passable. On every damn character, it's a chore and nothing.

Please stop equating costume pieces with "everything" and we won't have to repeat the SAME DAMN ARGUMENT we've been recycling for the last five years. I'm getting tired or repeating myself, and that's saying something coming from me.

okay. My mistake. I probably should have clarified here.

What I see, as a general trend, on the forums is people wanting everything now that the game offers, and it's really starting to get on my nerves. From what I see on the forums a small minority of players don't understand the concept of a game. They don't understand the concept of playing for a reward. They don't want to be punished for getting something wrong, or for doing something stupid. This attitude just grates me like a Cheese Grater saying hi to some Mozzarella. It also grates me even more how players respond when told that they are being a thick-headed... I can't say that without being insulting can I... Well, maybe you know what I mean.

So, maybe I am in the wrong for having let my aggravation show through on a costume topic. Yes, I feel the... um... pain for some character concepts. I get the points out about the Roman Armors.

I really do like the idea Lord Mayhem put forth though, to have basic outfits at level one... like a generic Cimeroran Soldier outfit, and then the Roman Armor that Mimics Imperious / Romulus at 35 when you can actually do the TF.

That does sound like a better way to handle keeping in-game rewards for playing, while still giving concept freedom to people with new characters.

ToySoldierZolgar · 11-04-2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist

question. If the devs gave everything to the players straight off... what would be the point of actually playing the game itself? Or have just that many players forgotten that City of Heroes is a GAME?

This is why I say make the unlocks account based, or at minimum allow us to choose which characters we give them to.

Unlocks as a per-character reward would work.. if they weren't so selective. I can never use weapon unlocks. Why?

My higher level toons:
Fire/Energy tank
DM/WP brute
Ill/Kin controller
Crab Spider (without any rifle attacks)
Spines/Fire scrapper
Thugs/Pain MM (without any pistol attacks)

You might say "Well that's just you!"

No, it's not. More than half the characters in the game cannot use any weapon unlocks, and of those that can only a select few can actually use X weapon unlock.
Is an AR Blaster going to have any use for the Tsoo katana?
Or is a Claws scrapper going to have any use for the Nemesis rifles?

Samuel_Tow · 11-05-2009 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist

What I see, as a general trend, on the forums is people wanting everything now that the game offers, and it's really starting to get on my nerves. From what I see on the forums a small minority of players don't understand the concept of a game. They don't understand the concept of playing for a reward. They don't want to be punished for getting something wrong, or for doing something stupid. This attitude just grates me like a Cheese Grater saying hi to some Mozzarella. It also grates me even more how players respond when told that they are being a thick-headed... I can't say that without being insulting can I... Well, maybe you know what I mean.

For me, I draw the line on having things at creation on where cosmetic items end and actual powers begin. I would love nothing more than to have the whole costume creator with all of its pieces be dumped at creation for all players. That's never going to happen, but I can at least speak against the gulf getting larger. And mind you, I have everything but the Cape of the Four Winds, so it's not a selfish request, not entirely. However, I seriously draw the line at giving extra POWERS to people at creation, and in fact I find the veteran reward attacks to be a horrible idea, as they make veteran characters significantly more powerful in the lower levels. So against it am I, in fact, that I make it a point to never use veteran reward attacks with a few VERY rare exceptions.

My beef with unlockable costume pieces isn't the act of unlocking them. I've done the ITF and I've killed 100 Overseers. I'm not above working for my costume items. What bugs me is that I can't have them at character creation, and so any concepts that require them can't really get off the ground, or at the very least can't be good enough. That, and the fact that some of those items SUCK to unlock, is a huge problem. So huge, in fact, that I'd rather have new items be part of paid costume packs than be added to the game for free. Yeah, micro-transactions and all that, but if I had to pick between $10 and the ability to use them at character creation and free but having to wait until level 35, I'd pick $10 every time.

See, the trick is this - earning something once is fun. Earning it over and over and God damn over again isn't. Earning a cape once was fun. Earning it for EVERY DAMN CHARACTER is a chore. I don't mind the mission, really, I just mind having a cape hidden behind it. So here's the thing - I don't mind having a costume item that's difficult to obtain, or even a costume set that you need to unlock over several characters. But if that was unlocked GLOBALLY, then I would be jumping up and down with enthusiasm to unlock it. But it isn't. None of these unlockable pieces are. And so I have to go through the exact same trudge for every character. And that is just plain old not fun.

Here's the deal - I want to see either less/no unlocking, or global unlocking. If they unlock globally, I will gladly do whatever it takes to unlock them and never complain again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Cardiff_Giant · 11-05-2009 06:21 AM

Since we're talking about weapon options,
Would this be a bad time to ask for a "keyboard" weapon option?

War Mace might be the best fit, maybe as unlockable weapon option - OR possibly something included in GR?

Heck, I'd happily settle for it as a Craftable/Temporary Power!

Some days I REALLY want to "Homerow" things in this game, and before you ask - The awesome slow-mo scene from "Wanted" (at roughly 32 mins into it) isn't where I first saw this.

I'm not entirely certain where it first originated, But "Homerowed" was a skit on A.O.T.S. (Attack Of The Show) with Kevin Rose & some of the office staff, not long before he left the show to focus on Digg, DiggNation, Revision3 and some other projects. But, he did come back occasionally to fill-in for folks on assignment (or sick), and they did a sequel to the first skit.

Anywho, I also saw this in an 'Underground Fightclubs' segment on some show(?) - where the 2 fighters were wielding Keyboards & fought until one managed to win = by being the first one to break-off ALL the keys from their respective keyboard/weapon, via repeatedly bashing them on their opponent - about the head, torso, etc.
It was a mostly a bunch of geeks and suits - and to my surprise, they didn't wear much (if anything) in the way of protective gear and really beat the snot out of each other.

Yeah, uhm so... with Dual Pistols being an upcoming Powerset, I just figured now would be the time to ask about this for the "Wanted" homages, or for a "Cubical Worker" toon who's gone Postal - in an evil alternate reality "OfficeSpace"-style (maybe in Praetoria?) possibly sporting 'Goatees' or 'Vandykes' like the old ST evil mustaches/beards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.

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Lord Mayhem · 11-05-2009 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

See, the trick is this - earning something once is fun. Earning it over and over and God damn over again isn't. Earning a cape once was fun. Earning it for EVERY DAMN CHARACTER is a chore. I don't mind the mission, really, I just mind having a cape hidden behind it. So here's the thing - I don't mind having a costume item that's difficult to obtain, or even a costume set that you need to unlock over several characters. But if that was unlocked GLOBALLY, then I would be jumping up and down with enthusiasm to unlock it. But it isn't. None of these unlockable pieces are. And so I have to go through the exact same trudge for every character. And that is just plain old not fun.

Here's the deal - I want to see either less/no unlocking, or global unlocking. If they unlock globally, I will gladly do whatever it takes to unlock them and never complain again.

I find myself completely agreeing with you again, Sam, especially for capes and auras (I use the Valkyrie and magic booster capes a lot these days... wonder why..

).

Badges are another good example for me - I don't mind picking up badges as a result of normal gameplay (i.e. not consciously badge-grinding for them), because it acts like a record of which content each character has done - but I would much rather badges acted like a record of what I have done as a player across my whole account. As it is, the only times I become a focused badge-hunter are for: a) badges that give accolades that grant powers (I try to earn these on every character), b) badges that unlock a custom weapon/shield or costume piece, c) badges needed to unlock contacts (redside), d) explore badges to unlock SG Teleport beacons (admittedly I have all of these now, both sides), e) badges that give titles I want for a particular character.

In many of those cases I find badge hunting a chore. I can understand why some enjoy it - I've been obsessive about collecting things in other games (Collections in EQ2, getting 100% in the Grand Theft Auto games, etc.) - but I don't feel the pull of it here, because I have so many characters that it gets repetitive getting the same badges again and again (in EQ2 and the GTA games I was focused on just one character). Plus, on redside, the explore badges for the Invader accolade makes me treat the mayhem missions as mandatory content to do every 5 levels (because it would be more of a hassle to get them after I'd outlevelled them).

If all badges were globally earned I could see myself caring about badge-hunting a lot more. I think badges being global would make much more sense in a game where altaholism is so promoted (due to the fast levelling pace, massive variety in characters, and the lack of a full endgame). Also global badges would mean that costume pieces and custom weapons earned through badges would also be global. And I would rather that all of the accolade powers were unlocked by TF/SFs (a good way to further promote teaming).

ToySoldierZolgar · 11-05-2009 10:35 AM

Mayhem,

Badges are intended to reflect in-character actions/achievements. The only ones that are intended to note a player achievement are the (very few) global badges. And if they tried to make every badge global it would.. ye gods, I don't want to think of what it would be like.

They would either have to remove/nerf every benefit from badges, or otherwise make them a lot harder to get.

I can perhaps respect where you're coming from with this idea, but it would honestly be pushing it far too far. I think this suggestion will meet nearly the resistance of a suggestion to raise the level cap. >.>

Azrhiaz · 11-05-2009 11:02 AM

Not only should there be more unlockables (across the board, not just with weapons) but I'd love to see some new special costume recipes be introduced to the markets.

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Samuel_Tow · 11-05-2009 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem

Badges are another good example for me - I don't mind picking up badges as a result of normal gameplay (i.e. not consciously badge-grinding for them), because it acts like a record of which content each character has done - but I would much rather badges acted like a record of what I have done as a player across my whole account. As it is, the only times I become a focused badge-hunter are for: a) badges that give accolades that grant powers (I try to earn these on every character), b) badges that unlock a custom weapon/shield or costume piece, c) badges needed to unlock contacts (redside), d) explore badges to unlock SG Teleport beacons (admittedly I have all of these now, both sides), e) badges that give titles I want for a particular character.

Well... I don't know about badges. I'm not a badge hunter, so I can't really say one way or the other.

BUT

What about another kind of badges altogether - player badges. We already have those, sort of, with the Veteran Reward badges, the VIP pass and so on - badges we get on each new character as soon as he or she is created. So why not have a few of those that are earnable by in-game action? Say, something like "20 of your characters have visited this out of the way location, so here's a badge for you" or "you have 50 characters with at least 10 hours played on them. Congratulations!"

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to something like that, and it might add a new layer to badge hunting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Lord Mayhem · 11-05-2009 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar

I can perhaps respect where you're coming from with this idea, but it would honestly be pushing it far too far. I think this suggestion will meet nearly the resistance of a suggestion to raise the level cap. >.>

I fully appreciate that - I was just dreaming out loud, expressing my opinion, because I don't like having to grind badges for costume pieces or powers - I actually like having things unlock at the ends of arcs and TFs/SFs, just not for badges that promote repetitive farming as the only way to get them. I was very glad to see the Devs reduce some of the defeat badge targets, because I just hate it when badge-grinding is pushed onto those who wouldn't otherwise be interested in badges.