double size coming in GR


Aisynia

 

Posted

I'll have to disagree with Venture on this. I have several arcs sitting on hold because I wanted to add:
1. A custom civilian group.
2. Opposing custom villain groups
3. (More) custom named npcs that you meet as you progress through the arc.
4. More objectives.
5. Larger villain groups
Note: Not necessarily all of the above in the same arc .

The constraints of the current system are annoying to say the least. this is excellent news.

Now, if they'd just allow us to design maps ... I would be one happy camper.


131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite View Post
No, it won't be cutscenes. I got an earful about that while at HeroCon because apparently the tool the devs use for cutscenes is more awkward, bloated, and convoluted than a humpback whale doing the hula on rollerskates. I wish there were a way to include them, but that's coz I is a video geek.
Ugh, only if they were skippable or had a short time limit like 15 seconds, and only once or twice for the entire story arc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
I'll have to disagree with Venture on this. I have several arcs sitting on hold because I wanted to add:
1. A custom civilian group.
2. Opposing custom villain groups
3. (More) custom named npcs that you meet as you progress through the arc.
4. More objectives.
5. Larger villain groups
Note: Not necessarily all of the above in the same arc .
My largest group cannot entirely fit in the same arc, I had to divide the group into "Core" members and then the special ones who only can appear in boss details.

I also wanted to do some fun things like having named minions and LTs who you run into repeatedly, remembering you from last time and reacting in different ways but I simply lack the room since a detail takes up 0.5% before you even add the text.

I also love to cram missions with non-required objective to make it feel more fun an alive, whether it's patrols and boss details who chatter about things happening in the plot or optional glowies that are obviously not what you are looking for but give fun messages for people who do like to click everything. Missions are so boring when it's a bunch of people just standing around and waiting to be beaten up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
I thought you could edit a Dev's Choice arc, as long as you were willing to give up the Dev's Choice status.
Then what was the point of getting a DC on it in the first place if you're going to give it up? It's not like the Devs are going to go "Oh, do you want a different arc DCed then?" The only times that DCs have been reinstated are when it had to be edited for some serious issue or somehow became invalidated.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
I'll have to disagree with Venture on this.
I disagree with Venture in this case, but as in many cases I don't think most people are disagreeing with Venture head-on, but only tangentially.

My read is that Venture isn't saying its impossible to use the extra space to make better arcs. He's saying its more likely to promote lesser arcs than better ones. And he's saying that because of that, the system would be better off if it restricted size, because those authors that could have made good use of the extra space could also make good arcs with the restricted space. Suggesting counter-examples isn't contradicting Venture, because he's saying a) if you're good enough to pull off what you're saying, you're also good enough to pull off equally good arcs with less space, and b) if you're not good enough to pull off what you're saying, the mission architect is better off not allowing you to try.

I think that presumes that the purpose of the MA is to be, essentially, a teaching tool and *that* is the part I disagree with. I believe "bad" (ignoring the fact that equality is highly subjective to begin with) arcs are a necessary evil of the MA, because I believe its primary purpose is to allow players to express themselves as authors. If I can tell good stories with it, but I can't tell *my* stories, it fails as a tool for me. I'm not a professional architect author; my goal is not to tell the most commerically viable or most efficient stories, but *my* stories, period.

My point of disagreement with Venture here is not that anything he says about the net consequence of increasing file size is necessarily wrong (although I don't think its entirely correct either), but rather that its besides the point of the purpose of the MA. I think the distinction is best put this way: if there is an architect mission I want to make that requires 200k, Venture says its better to sacrifice that mission for the greater good of forcing authors to be more directed towards better mission design. I say its better to allow that mission for the greater good of making a system that is as inclusive of expression as possible, even if it means it might include lower quality missions.

However, I should point out that neither choice is free of problematic situations.


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Posted

Bad authors are going to make bad arcs no matter what, It doesn't matter if the file limit is 50k or 1000k. Relaxed limits only help the better authors.


 

Posted

Quote:
Venture says its better to sacrifice that mission for the greater good of forcing authors to be more directed towards better mission design.
Shorter arcs do not automatically equate to better mission design. Neither do arcs free of custom factions. Compelling stories are going to be compelling stories no matter if they are told in 3 missions or 5 missions or 8 missions. The current system is restrictive in the aspect that those compelling 8 mission stories are never going to be told.

Simultaneously, yes, there are a sea of bad custom factions out there. There are over 340,000 arcs out there. By virtue of numbers alone, this means there are a sea of flat-out bad arcs out there, whether they have custom factions or not.

I don't see what advantage keeping the good authors from telling more intricate, more attractive and more compelling good stories could possibly offer. So that the crappy that you don't want to play anyway will be shorter and less intricate?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
I cannot think of a single custom mob that was any more interesting or fun to fight than anything I've fought in the stock missions
That's the quote that interests me the most, since it's the quote that runs most directly counter to my own experiences in MA. I've personally found the simple variety offered by the custom enemies I've faced alone makes them more interesting then standard enemies.

I've also found the best designed enemies tend to rival (and sometimes surpass) anything the game cannon enemies offers in terms of fun. Ergo, the idea of having more customs per mission is something that interests me personally.

Which makes it all the more grating when Venture us of "we" to express his own opinion all the more nerve grating.

Since he's so often using tv tropes for the basis of his reviews/ opinions, I'll steal a Mark Twain quote from the "I am Legion" page to sum up my annoyance.

"Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'. "

Because everything is better with a Mark Twain quote. (Although I'd be interested in hearing his definition of what makes a mob 'fun' to fight, and why he thinks MA mobs haven't been able to exceed the standard game's mobs in terms of 'fun' or 'interest.')

J/ Wilde


Still hate the visit Winscott mission- make it dropable, have it give actual exp or remove it altogether. PS- Down knows who you are.
J/ Wilde/
/ AIL - Celebrating five years!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite View Post
No, it won't be cutscenes. I got an earful about that while at HeroCon because apparently the tool the devs use for cutscenes is more awkward, bloated, and convoluted than a humpback whale doing the hula on rollerskates. I wish there were a way to include them, but that's coz I is a video geek.
I wonder if they can borrow Guild Wars' cutscene maker tool. The way it inserts your character and others in your party is seamless. It would be so cool seeing your toons animated that way. Plus maybe voiceover, if we want to really dream.

The two games are both NCSoft and GW already did cross-promoting w/ Aion when they gave out wings as emotes. It should be in the realm of possibility.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister_Twelve View Post
Simultaneously, yes, there are a sea of bad custom factions out there. There are over 340,000 arcs out there. By virtue of numbers alone, this means there are a sea of flat-out bad arcs out there, whether they have custom factions or not.
Sturgeon's law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
Bad authors are going to make bad arcs no matter what, It doesn't matter if the file limit is 50k or 1000k. Relaxed limits only help the better authors.
This is absolutely on the mark. More space won't magically make a bad arc good, but it could help a good arc become great. Conversely, any arcs that are made worse based on changes made because of the author having more space probably weren't very good to begin with.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
Egads, that's horrible. If they increase the number of missions it's going to mean more interminable boring arcs. Whether they do or not it's going to mean arcs stuffed with even more custom mobs, the vast majority of which will be ugly and no fun to fight.

The file size limit ain't broke. They shouldn't be screwing with it. We don't need ten-mission arcs and we don't need arcs with thirty custom mobs in them.


 

Posted

Huzzah for bigger arc size says I!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
Just in case, you might want to take the "Final" tag off of any arc that you want to take advantage of this increased file limit on. Even if it's a ways off and the chances are slim, I know that I don't want to risk such an arc getting DCed and locked for editing in the meantime.
If you talk to Dr. Aeon about the specific changes you want to make, chances are he will let you edit it and then re-DC it. He's cool like that. I've had to edit both of my DCs for bugs. Basically, the system in place is there to keep you from you altering the story fundamentally. If all you're doing is making some tweaks, he should be cool with it as long as he knows exactly what you're planning to do beforehand. I just wouldn't go overboard and ask to edit it all the time



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