Quote:
I'd recommend that you swap out the Earth/Storm for a Plant/Storm.|
Originally Posted by Dinlek
Thank-you for the advice, both of you. I'm thinking of just leveling up two controllers, a Ill/Rad designed for a bit of a "Jack of all Trades" approach, and an Earth/Storm for "team-based over-control".
|
Both Plant/Storm and Earth/Storm will be great on teams but for the times when you can't find a team - with a Plant/storm you wont care with the Earth/storm you will.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Quote:
I don't know that I'd suggest a Plant/Storm over an Earth/Storm, but I agree that the Plant/Storm will do more damage. Earth is a superior AoE control set lacking in damage. It has three ranged AoE controls, and you can have two usually up for every group. At least one of those three will work in almost every situation. Two of the three (Earthquake and Volcanic Gasses) provide continuing control, while the third (Stalagmites+Stone Cages) is a partial one-shot (Stalagmites in one-shot, but Stone Cages can be applied over and over again.) Plus, it provides massive Defense debuffs to make it much easier for teammates to hit the foes. Earth is the best team controller, but it really needs a team until the upper levels. Once you get Rocky and the Storm damage powers, you can solo at a not-too-slow speed.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon
I'd recommend that you swap out the Earth/Storm for a Plant/Storm.
Both Plant/Storm and Earth/Storm will be great on teams but for the times when you can't find a team - with a Plant/storm you wont care with the Earth/storm you will. |
Fortunately, the new Power Customization/Colorizing options have made the Earth graphics easier to deal with for those who didn't like them. The Lava mode looks pretty nice, and the Crystal mode seems less intrusive than the old Earth graphics. Personally, I never had a problem with the Earth graphics -- everyone on the team could easily see my contributions.
Plant is more of a one-trick pony, but it does its one trick very well. Seed+Roots can be supplemented by Carrion Creepers. Both of its AoE controls (Seeds+Roots and Vines) are One-shot type controls, but with Roots used over and over again mostly for damage. Once you have fired off Seeds and Creepers, you only have Vines as a panic button until Seeds recharges. With a Plant Controller, I often have to wait around for Seeds to recharge, or I may forgo using Seeds on smaller groups to save it for the next larger group. Yes, Plant does a lot more damage and is better solo.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
I agree with all that you've said. |
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I don't know that I'd suggest a Plant/Storm over an Earth/Storm, but I agree that the Plant/Storm will do more damage. Earth is a superior AoE control set lacking in damage. It has three ranged AoE controls, and you can have two usually up for every group. At least one of those three will work in almost every situation. Two of the three (Earthquake and Volcanic Gasses) provide continuing control, while the third (Stalagmites+Stone Cages) is a partial one-shot (Stalagmites in one-shot, but Stone Cages can be applied over and over again.) Plus, it provides massive Defense debuffs to make it much easier for teammates to hit the foes. Earth is the best team controller, but it really needs a team until the upper levels. Once you get Rocky and the Storm damage powers, you can solo at a not-too-slow speed.
Fortunately, the new Power Customization/Colorizing options have made the Earth graphics easier to deal with for those who didn't like them. The Lava mode looks pretty nice, and the Crystal mode seems less intrusive than the old Earth graphics. Personally, I never had a problem with the Earth graphics -- everyone on the team could easily see my contributions. Plant is more of a one-trick pony, but it does its one trick very well. Seed+Roots can be supplemented by Carrion Creepers. Both of its AoE controls (Seeds+Roots and Vines) are One-shot type controls, but with Roots used over and over again mostly for damage. Once you have fired off Seeds and Creepers, you only have Vines as a panic button until Seeds recharges. With a Plant Controller, I often have to wait around for Seeds to recharge, or I may forgo using Seeds on smaller groups to save it for the next larger group. Yes, Plant does a lot more damage and is better solo. |
The reason for my comment was that Plant backed up by the Storm secondary has more than enough control to play the lone controller on an 8 man team and it has enough damage to allow it to solo well.
IMO the Plant/Storm is the more balanced combination for team and solo play.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
To throw a complete sidetrack in the thread, while Ill/Rad and Fire/Rad are both amazingly good, Plant/Rad is also a strong contender that doesn't get as much play. Plant is a strong set with it's own bevy of tricks, and rad complements it nicely with additional control options and of course the phenomenal de-buffs. Plant/Rad's nicest bonus however is it's speed of maturity. Plant/Rad is good to go at something like level 8, and only gets better. Ill/Rad and Fire/Rad both take a while to hit their stride.
Making a bad controller with ill, fire, or plant as the primary, or rad or storm as the secondary is pretty hard though.
My thoughts on the Ill vs. Fire debate.
Well built illusion/radiation is arguably the strongest contender in the game vs. hard targets in that it will almost always win over time. I have yet to run into an AV on my Ill/Rad that has been a significant challenge (as long as I remember to keep clicking, some of them drag on for a while) and generally the only time I die on the character is when I get too aggressive.
Fire/Rad is the meaner, faster, not quite as safe sister to Ill/Rad. But for normal play, Fire/Rad doesn't disappoint in that it does everything well. Also everyone loves having a Fire/Rad on the team, something that Illusion occasionally (rightly or not) gets some knocks for. For those of a more horticultural mindset, Fire/Rad is a much better choice (of the two).
Hope that helps, after reading this discussion I'm all excited to play my fire/rad again. I might have to return to that project after I finish up the characters that I am working on.
-Mod8-
If you are using Latin in your post you are probably trolling
Have a question? Try the PlayNC Knowledge Base
What he said.
Quote:
Diabolique has 50% resistance to psionic (main damage type from PA and SW?) and that dreaded Phase + PFF
|
Originally Posted by Moderator 08
I have yet to run into an AV on my Ill/Rad that has been a significant challenge
|
Quote:
My list of achievements is a bit smaller than yours still. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
Diabolique has 50% resistance to psionic (main damage type from PA and SW?) and that dreaded Phase + PFF
|
-Mod8-
If you are using Latin in your post you are probably trolling
Have a question? Try the PlayNC Knowledge Base
Quote:
Fire/storm still produces heaps of damage, for bosses and spawn to spawn it is still my favorite controller. It is crazy fast, safe, and visually appealing. But it takes a massive investment to run with a heavy hitter like fire/rad for AV's. And even after that investment is still trailing by quite a bit.|
Originally Posted by Jharber
Just curious, where would fire/storm be compared to fire/rad?
|
Post LS nerf the only storm I would recommend for AV's is bots/storm. I tagged about 15 AV's with my fire/storm just before Castle gutted the crap out of LS. The damage was higher than fire/rad (including the -regen), but the end cost and risk was also a lot higher. Post LS nerf the effective damage is generally lower and nothing was done to change the end cost or the risk...in fact because you produce less damage for the same endurance it has actually become more of an issue and because hard targets don't die nearly as fast risk has also increased.
For how unplayable fire/storm was while leveling prior to getting all of the recovery bonuses I personally wouldn't do it again now that the peak performance of the set has been lowered by such a large degree. Basically, that time, effort, and inf put into a different toon (ie fire/rad) will produce much better results in most applications. My first two sentences still stand though.
Quote:
Not the "main" damage type -- the only damage type in Illusion until Phantasm's Energy/Smashing damage. This is one big reason why I recommend having a different damage type for the APP pools other than Psi. I prefer Fire or Ice, as they allow you to have a nice attack chain of Blind-Spectral Wounds-APP Blast-Spectral Wounds. Primal works, too.
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Diabolique has 50% resistance to psionic (main damage type from PA and SW?) and that dreaded Phase + PFF
|
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
The only AV I can't/have never beat on my ill/rad.
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Diabolique has 50% resistance to psionic (main damage type from PA and SW?) and that dreaded Phase + PFF
|
Yes whoever thought pff and phase was a good design is an evil evil person.
BTW i thought the Diabolique had 30% psi res? Has something changed after it was entereed in culex resistance chart?
Quote:
I'm glad someone chimed in about Plant/Rad. I was playing with a build on mids and I was giddy b/c of all of the versatility. Creepers+Seeds help with aggro like PA does. Also if you want to help with slight healing for the team Radiant Aura and Spirit Tree helps out. Roots does sexy dmg and Fly Trap now is better than ever.
|
Originally Posted by Moderator 08
To throw a complete sidetrack in the thread, while Ill/Rad and Fire/Rad are both amazingly good, Plant/Rad is also a strong contender that doesn't get as much play. Plant is a strong set with it's own bevy of tricks, and rad complements it nicely with additional control options and of course the phenomenal de-buffs. Plant/Rad's nicest bonus however is it's speed of maturity. Plant/Rad is good to go at something like level 8, and only gets better. Ill/Rad and Fire/Rad both take a while to hit their stride.
Making a bad controller with ill, fire, or plant as the primary, or rad or storm as the secondary is pretty hard though. My thoughts on the Ill vs. Fire debate. Well built illusion/radiation is arguably the strongest contender in the game vs. hard targets in that it will almost always win over time. I have yet to run into an AV on my Ill/Rad that has been a significant challenge (as long as I remember to keep clicking, some of them drag on for a while) and generally the only time I die on the character is when I get too aggressive. Fire/Rad is the meaner, faster, not quite as safe sister to Ill/Rad. But for normal play, Fire/Rad doesn't disappoint in that it does everything well. Also everyone loves having a Fire/Rad on the team, something that Illusion occasionally (rightly or not) gets some knocks for. For those of a more horticultural mindset, Fire/Rad is a much better choice (of the two). Hope that helps, after reading this discussion I'm all excited to play my fire/rad again. I might have to return to that project after I finish up the characters that I am working on. |
Thank-you for the advice, both of you. I'm thinking of just leveling up two controllers, a Ill/Rad designed for a bit of a "Jack of all Trades" approach, and an Earth/Storm for "team-based over-control".