I would like to see this implemented, but at the same time wouldn't.
I can see it adding lots of variety to the game, but also, I dunno, there's just something about it that makes it seem less like CoH (and no, I'm not comparing it to, or making any reference to "the other game"). Also, it wouldn't suit certain powersets. Like someone with Dark Blast? I can understand that by inheritance, this person may be strong and that doesn't affect their more meta-human abilities. But the reason why Super Strength has it is because a super strong person would be able to do it.
I can also see it having less use outside Mayhem Missions. Like you said yourself, the vast majority of missions are instanced, meaning there wouldn't be much to throw once inside them. And I'm pretty sure the Planters you see inside the Office Maps are part of the geometry, so it would be a bucket load of work for the Devs to make them targetable objects.
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Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
And I'm pretty sure the Planters you see inside the Office Maps are part of the geometry, so it would be a bucket load of work for the Devs to make them targetable objects.
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Here I see the biggest hurdle, but like other environmental features, new maps could be created first and then older ones can be retrofitted incrementally.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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New maps would still be a big hurdle for the Devs because they would need 3-4 (Tiny, Small, Medium and Large) and have to create at least 5-10 different maps for each size and tileset. Then they would have to code the objects so your character can pick them up and throw them. I'm not too sure how difficult this may be, considering the item has a reticle unlike the objects in powers such as Hurl Boulder.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Here I see the biggest hurdle, but like other environmental features, new maps could be created first and then older ones can be retrofitted incrementally.
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IMO, it seems like too much work for the Devs to do for a feature that would not be used too often, as far as I can see.
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There's something I'm missing here.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
A new option at creation - At the character creation screen, where you choose your model, you choose your "Lift Capacity". This scale determines how much your character can lift. Interactable objects will have a small color recticle that indicates at what weight it is based on your maximum. Three simple colors; Green = Easy lift, Easy Toss; Yellow = Liftable, No Toss; Red = No Lift, No Toss.
. Rob from Peter to pay Paul - This new ability is not a "free lunch". Similar to powers like Repulsion field, when you lift (or weaponize) an object, you will sacrifice some damage to all your other powers. The amount of time your damage is reduced is based on your level (lower levels taking longer), while the amount of the reduction being based on the size of the object. . No one is left out - To give every AT the opportunity to use this new ability, there will be an upper limit to how much you can lift and throw. Since even support ATs have damage attacks of some form, each will be able to lift to this maximum at the higher levels, while sacrificing more of their damage dealing ability than that of the more attack-oriented ATs. |
1) So every time I toss an object, I have a damage DeBuff, the size and duration depends upon the object thrown. I'm guessing that the recharge on the lift/throw power will be longer than the DeBuff. I get that.
2) Objects will be put into three wieght catagories. I get that.
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3) Character lift/throw ability will be set at character creation. What tradeoff is there to just setting the lift/throw capacity to maximum at that point for every character?* Is there also a Debuff of some kind for that as well?
I think the answer is in that third paragraph, but I'm not quite seeing it in the wording.
Let's say two otherwise identical Fire/Dev Blasters take different throwing strengths, I'm assuming that the "Big Tosser" will do less damage with his Fire Blasts, both before and after using the throw?
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
3) Character lift/throw ability will be set at character creation. What tradeoff is there to just setting the lift/throw capacity to maximum at that point for every character?* Is there also a Debuff of some kind for that as well?
I think the answer is in that third paragraph, but I'm not quite seeing it in the wording. Let's say two otherwise identical Fire/Dev Blasters take different throwing strengths, I'm assuming that the "Big Tosser" will do less damage with his Fire Blasts, both before and after using the throw? |
The reason for this is there will be a bump to your max at certain intervals in your career. Sure you can max out your capacity from level 1, but you will be doing yourself a dis-service in comparison to waiting for the natural progression. As for the debuff, it begins when the object is lifted and it's duration depends on factors such as the size of the object and your level, since as you progress, you become more practiced at throwing objects hence you recover quicker.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Very. In order for objects and characters to interact in that way, the devs would have to rework the engine. For the less technical, that's basically like reworking the laws of physics. It's a tremendous amount of work (as it essentially requires remaking the game) for a limited benefit.
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Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
Then they would have to code the objects so your character can pick them up and throw them. I'm not too sure how difficult this may be,
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We'll always have Paragon.
Personally, I think it's far too late in the game for something like this, and I've always viewed this as only in the realm of actual Super Strength characters. For this reason, I've always wished we could just remodel Super Strength/Hurl to throw the larger of the Propel debris instead of a wimpy rock. It won't solve your problem, but it'd be a step in the right direction.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well yes there are those characters that can focus their energies or willpower for temporary feats of superhuman strength. As for it being too late int the game for such a feature, I don't see why there coundn't be a few more creates in a warehouse, an extra few desk or bookshelves in an office, or a few cars in the elevated garage in out door maps. There wouldn't be a need to redo these maps from the ground up, but add the objects on top of them, but I am no coder, so I make no assumptions as to the difficulty of doing so.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I think it's far too late in the game for something like this, and I've always viewed this as only in the realm of actual Super Strength characters. For this reason, I've always wished we could just remodel Super Strength/Hurl to throw the larger of the Propel debris instead of a wimpy rock. It won't solve your problem, but it'd be a step in the right direction.
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"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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It's not about adding objects to maps, it's about coding the actual physical interaction between the player character, their collision cylinder, and a map object. The game engine was never built with this in mind.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Well yes there are those characters that can focus their energies or willpower for temporary feats of superhuman strength. As for it being too late int the game for such a feature, I don't see why there coundn't be a few more creates in a warehouse, an extra few desk or bookshelves in an office, or a few cars in the elevated garage in out door maps. There wouldn't be a need to redo these maps from the ground up, but add the objects on top of them, but I am no coder, so I make no assumptions as to the difficulty of doing so.
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Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
They way I read your post. I have to say no.
Yes you have a draw back in there.
However, what to stop people from always saying just saying they can lift maximum weight and using it in game?
That "other game" you at least have to put points towards stats for it. Here in CoH you don't.
Now, I'm not saying I can't see a Defender having Super Strength. I can. Super Strength is a common comic book power, and any concept, no matter the chosen AT could have increased strength to any degree.
Which one can easily RP.
However, to put your suggestion into the game, I just see more people going "I want to throw anything and everything, concept be damned" or "I want to throw anything and everything, so my concept ALSO has super strength".
Now I personally, prefere to keep the game more in line with mainstream Super Hero comics...and leave the Tick (which I love...btw...this isn't a knock on Tick) style alone.
Admittedly, I have one hero who would fall into the Tick area (it's a Catgirl Faerie Princess Vampire...how is that not a bit out there? :P ), but out of 35 character slots, she's the exception, not the rule.
And I'd rather not see more of that style in CoH. I prefere to keep it to the more serious side of things, rather than the comical, which sadly, I understand many in CoH don't (for one they don't seem to read comics at all, and didn't pick up CoH to play superheroes per se)...but your suggestion just makes me think we'll see even more of that, and I'd rather not see that.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Personally, my biggest problem is that I really dislike powers which depend on the environment, especially when that environment was not made to accommodate these powers to begin with. Yeah, you can retrofit all instances with extra liftable debris, but I think you sorely underestimate how MANY instanced maps need to be edited and how many maps are ALWAYS missed when such a thing happens.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Well yes there are those characters that can focus their energies or willpower for temporary feats of superhuman strength. As for it being too late int the game for such a feature, I don't see why there coundn't be a few more creates in a warehouse, an extra few desk or bookshelves in an office, or a few cars in the elevated garage in out door maps. There wouldn't be a need to redo these maps from the ground up, but add the objects on top of them, but I am no coder, so I make no assumptions as to the difficulty of doing so.
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For instance:
The Hydra outdoor instance that's a section of Perez Park had a hole in the shield wall. That was fixed on the original map, and on the Burning Perez Park map where you go to fight the Rikti Assault Group for Levantera. It has not, however, been fixed on the Burning Perez Park map where you fight Giovanna Scaldy, despite it being a carbon copy of Levantera's map. It's still there.
Also, the Blue Labs tileset had a hole in the wall in the Lab Room. When Longbow Labs were created, they were a reskinned blue lab, and so inherited the bug. The big was subsequently fixed in the Blue Labs tileset, but still exists on the Longbow Labs tileset. I cannot confirm whether it exists on the Portal Corps maps, as I don't believe they had a lab room.
And there is still the occasional bugged CoV map where spawns don't show up properly, a problem which was fixed somewhere in 2005-2006, it just didn't filter to unique maps that aren't played often.
Even if the developers commit to filling up maps with enough throwable debris for such an ability to be useful, you are bound to hit a dry spot where there's nothing to throw, and that looks REALLY bad. It's like playing Half-Life 2 and discovering that Valve apparently forgot to put ANYTHING for the Gravity Gun to toss in the museum. Like, AT ALL. Ravenholm is filled with throwables, but as you move forward, they get less and less, until you have almost nothing by the end of the game.
That's why I said it's too late in the game. The power and even the power mechanics may well be possible (even if I doubt they'd ever look good - those in Champions looked pretty bad), there is just too much dead space in the game for the developers to fill it up with things to throw. Worse still, you'll end up like you do in Mayhem Missions, where you run by a trash can or a fire hydrant that isn't made into an object, and as such isn't destructible even though it should be. Say they add more boxes and throwable parked cars. What about the old, immovable parking metres? What about light posts and the old trash cans, crates and barrels? What about the old parked cars? It's not a good idea to have only select items be throwable while identical legacy items remain immovable, yet retrofitting the world to account for this seems like far too much trouble for what it ultimately does.
I'll be frank on one point, though: I've seen heavy object tossing in a lot of games, and I cannot recall ONE game in which it looked good. In fact, Prototype was probably the WORST incarnation of throwable debris I have EVER seen, and that was probably the last thing I played before Champions.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Why not just add it in to the Hurl Boulder power from Superstrength?
Put in an alternative animation. For example, when you're close to a car or a crate or a supercomputer, then the character is shown picking up a car and throwing it. If there's nothing throwable nearby, you just rip a chunk out of the floor as always. It doesn't even need to add new debris. The actual car that you throw could just stay there, you just throw a duplicate that is part of the animation and then gets destroyed and disappears once it hits. If they could do it with Propel, it shouldn't be so hard to do again. The only new code they'd need would be a "change Hurl Boulder" marker for all throwable items, which could work if zones are built like bases are.
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Sorry for the thread derail, but I think Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects did throwable debris well. And War of the Monsters.| I'll be frank on one point, though: I've seen heavy object tossing in a lot of games, and I cannot recall ONE game in which it looked good. In fact, Prototype was probably the WORST incarnation of throwable debris I have EVER seen, and that was probably the last thing I played before Champions. |
Anyway, I agree with MonkeySpirit. Add it to possibles for Hurl in the Super Strength set and have it customisable from the Character Creator.
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As long as we're adding it to Super Strength, I don't see why we can't just chuck the larger debris from Propel (so no potted plants or fire extinguishers, but YES fork lifts and giant air compressors) and let it pick on its own? I mean certainly I would like it if it picked based on item proximity or at least based on tileset, but realistically speaking, I'd just be happy if we dumped that wimpy piece.|
Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
Anyway, I agree with MonkeySpirit. Add it to possibles for Hurl in the Super Strength set and have it customisable from the Character Creator.
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Makes no sense to pull and toss a junk car in a Council base? OK, I'll give you that. How much sense does it make to rip a chunk of asphalt out of a METAL GRATE CATWALK? Or out of the hood of a car, or out of a tangle of powerlines? Or out of open water? Hurl already fails to make sense on half the floor types in the game. It wouldn't make too much less sense throwing something cooler.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Like you said with the Council base, Sam, that's where another problem would arise (as much as I would love to see this implemented). Some of the object may be too large for certain map types; see the Council bases for instance or those annoying as heck caves with tiny passageways. Tossing a car or even a gargoyle would be big enough to clog the passage and create some major clipping issues with the terrain.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As long as we're adding it to Super Strength, I don't see why we can't just chuck the larger debris from Propel (so no potted plants or fire extinguishers, but YES fork lifts and giant air compressors) and let it pick on its own? I mean certainly I would like it if it picked based on item proximity or at least based on tileset, but realistically speaking, I'd just be happy if we dumped that wimpy piece.
Makes no sense to pull and toss a junk car in a Council base? OK, I'll give you that. How much sense does it make to rip a chunk of asphalt out of a METAL GRATE CATWALK? Or out of the hood of a car, or out of a tangle of powerlines? Or out of open water? Hurl already fails to make sense on half the floor types in the game. It wouldn't make too much less sense throwing something cooler. |
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Precedent suggests this isn't a problem. Propel debris already works with those caves without causing problems, because propel debris has no mass or resistance. Even if it's a junk car, you can kick it around like a beach ball, and if you manage to jam it against a wall, it will just osmosis through the wall and disappear. It's not a problem of getting around, and while it IS ugly, it's on the exact same level as what's already in the game. Personally, I find the wimpy rock to be more ugly than wonky physics, so even if it's a step into beach ball forklift land, it's still a step up.
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Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
Like you said with the Council base, Sam, that's where another problem would arise (as much as I would love to see this implemented). Some of the object may be too large for certain map types; see the Council bases for instance or those annoying as heck caves with tiny passageways. Tossing a car or even a gargoyle would be big enough to clog the passage and create some major clipping issues with the terrain.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Why would anyone EVER pick anything but the highest capacity?|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Ok it's that time again. Time to bring up manipulating our environment ie. grabbing and throwing things. I am aware of the reasons why it hasn't been done in this game and I don't want to be one of those that say, "That other game has it" types, but I think there is a way to introduce it here in a way that is not only cool, but fair to all ATs and doesn't turn every zone into Boomtown.
A new option at creation - At the character creation screen, where you choose your model, you choose your "Lift Capacity". This scale determins how much your character can lift. Interactable objects will have a small color recticle that indicates at what weight it is based on your maximum. Three simple colors; Green = Easy lift, Easy Toss; Yellow = Liftable, No Toss; Red = No Lift, No Toss. |
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| Rob from Peter to pay Paul - This new ability is not a "free lunch". Similar to powers like Repulsion field, when you lift (or weaponize) an object, you will sacrifice some damage to all your other powers. The amount of time your damage is reduced is based on your level (lower levels taking longer), while the amount of the reduction being based on the size of the object. |
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| No one is left out - To give every AT the opportunity to use this new ability, there will be an upper limit to how much you can lift and throw. Since even support ATs have damage attacks of some form, each will be able to lift to this maximum at the higher levels, while sacrificing more of their damage dealing ability than that of the more attack-oriented ATs. |
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| Not a new Power Set - This idea is not meant to be a new power set or to replace any existing powers, but to accentuate a characters ability. To that end, this ability is un-slottable. Like the Nemesis staff and the Black wand, its a hit or miss power that you use to round out your attack-chain, but nothing you would consider relying on in a tight jam. Because this ability effects your regular powers, it can be modified by player buffs, but at a lower scale (ie. BU + Aim will add to your lift/throw ability). The range at which one can throw an object depends on the size of the object, where smaller objects go farther. The amount of damage the object does depends on the not only the size of the object, but the amount of damage that can be sacrificed from attack powers. |
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| City of Instanced - As we all know, this game is probably 75% instanced missions, if not more. For this reason, I would suggest that this is were the new ability would be applied. Like objects n Mayhem missions, liftable objects would have a target recticle that would appear when in melee range. The recticle is a small circlular indicator at center of mass of the object so as not block the standard target recticle as many objects would be liftable and destructable. To grab an object, you simply click on it, causing a short animation to play. Once lifted, simply select a target and click the power again to throw it. Unlike other examples of this ability, the object would not become translucent when held. This forces the player to consider his camera angle in relationship to the target before attacking, but the recticle of the target is still visible through the held object, so as to not make it cumbersome in the heat of battle. Once the object is thrown, if it hits the target, it will take the appropriate damage and the appropriate KB will be applied. Larger objects (cars, buses, larger creates, etc) will have more KB than smaller, based also on the target (Bosses tend to resist KB more than minions). If the object misses, it will act like any other physX object, but when it stops moving, it will be once again be targetable. You can use an object over and over until it is destroyed and it will behave like standard Mayhem objects. |
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| I have been seing this in my head for a while now and there have been several suggestions that have touched on it, so I thought I would try to lay it out in some detail. Like I said, I know this has always been a tough sell, but the more I read comics, the more I think the ability to weaponize object would be a valuable addition to the game. |
-shrug-
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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QFT|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
. . .From a laymans Point of View, it looks like a hell of a lot of work for something that wouldnt deliver. Just my opinion. If your character is just an average joe who uses a gun, why would he bother struggling picking something up to throw around? If you character is a hulking ton of pure kickass, why would he bother using a puny postbox, when punching someone through the wall will do so much more damage?
-shrug- |
I have never been very fond of this idea.
- I agree that most places I have ever seen this sort of thing done, it looked stupid.
- Grappling and propelling bulky objects is A LOT less accurate, less effective, and less necessary, than an accurate toss of an object like a bowling ball or smaller. A large object, and it's inertia should make it easier to detect and dodge.
Bad Science.
Impossible physics.
The science problems are handled with the gravity power Propel. It is internally logical because (anti)gravity is affecting the whole object, so the lifting and hurling the large objects allow you to suspend your disbelief.
But I always hated how comic books taught us illogic and bad physics.
Even if you are invulnerable and have the strength,
- You are not going to be able to brace yourself and reach out and stop a train. Instead, your body will rip a hole in the front of the train, it will pass around you, ripping up the insides of the locomotive and probably killing anyone inside. . . . OR . . . you will end up a half mile down the track, with a trench dug by your body and the half a mile of railroad ties piled on top of you.
- Even if you can get your hands around the bumper or somehow grip a corner of a bus, and lift, . . . You are only going to end up with a bumper in your hands. . . OR . . . that corner, or the middle of the bus are going to fold and crumple, weaken and not be very tossable.
- Unless you are able to reach across and have your hands on opposite sides of the rock, it is likely to just fracture or crumble as you lift it.
- pick up a huge slab of concrete? Again, if you can somehow find a way to grip the slab, the slab is unlikely to remain one big piece. Instead, you will probably just end up with 2 basketball sized pieces of concrete in your hands.
- Flagpoles? definitely going to fold on you when you hit something, losing damaging energy, if it didn't fold as you started to swing it.
You at least need to try and make it internally logical. come up with reasons for why the bus doesn't fold up or the bumper doesn't come off in your hands. I don't see how to do that with all the objects we might want to be able to hurl.
And again, why waste the effort and time to grapple, lift, juggle and aim an ungainly large mass when you can just quickly and accurately use your bullets, swords, energy beams etc, to better and more effective attack.
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While I have to agree on the notion of bad physics, I think we should have some measure of restraint when applying realism in game where bullets knock back and arrows fly in a straight line. That said:
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That can actually benefit from a miracle excuse. Certain characters have the ability to create their own bracing irrespective of contact with a surface. Magneto inside a metal suit would be a good example, but there are others. If you can telekinetically propel an item, you can hold your own body in place via the same means. That, and railroad locomotives are incredibly rigid and made of really thick, sturdy steel, so punching a man-sized hole through that AND through the engine is highly unlikely. You'd probably collapse the engine, but not enough to start tearing chunks of cast steal out of it.|
Originally Posted by stever
ou are not going to be able to brace yourself and reach out and stop a train. Instead, your body will rip a hole in the front of the train, it will pass around you, ripping up the insides of the locomotive and probably killing anyone inside. . . . OR . . . you will end up a half mile down the track, with a trench dug by your body and the half a mile of railroad ties piled on top of you.
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That said, even if you could stop the engine on a dime without causing any damage, all the carriages behind it are going to accordion into it and probably crush each other, killing any people inside. Train derailings aren't deadly for this exact reason.
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Even if you can get your hands around the bumper or somehow grip a corner of a bus, and lift, . . . You are only going to end up with a bumper in your hands. . . OR . . . that corner, or the middle of the bus are going to fold and crumple, weaken and not be very tossable. Unless you are able to reach across and have your hands on opposite sides of the rock, it is likely to just fracture or crumble as you lift it. |
Recently, when people in cartoons and movie lift large objects, they don't grab the car by the bumper, they actually lift the car, tip it to one side, then move under its centre of mass and then lift it from there on their shoulders and entire arms, rather than just by two hands. If you follow a vehicle's axis of structural strength, you can then toss it a little like a spear, and even though it might crumple or buckle, at least it won't fall apart.
Now, bigger objects like mountains and buildings... Yeah, that's just silly.
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| pick up a huge slab of concrete? Again, if you can somehow find a way to grip the slab, the slab is unlikely to remain one big piece. Instead, you will probably just end up with 2 basketball sized pieces of concrete in your hands. |
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| Flagpoles? definitely going to fold on you when you hit something, losing damaging energy, if it didn't fold as you started to swing it. |
That's actually why I found tossing things stupid in about any game I've seen it, though - because liftable objects seem to have no apparent mass and have uncompromisable structural integrity. You don't lift a troop transport truck by its driver side steps. If you tried, it'd just come off in your hands. You don't toss vehicles like you're throwing a medicine ball, nor do you hold them like that. Most assuredly, you do NOT jump with trucks on your shoulders. Even if you can carry the thing without its chasis collapsing, if you JUMP with it, it'll just snap in half over your back when you come down, if you don't sink into the ground to begin with. I think WWF's Lex Luger had a move exactly like this.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I didn't read all the responses to this, but I tried the "other game" during their free weekend, and I wasn't that impressed with the tossable objects. The biggest problem was targetting. When you have a contact next to a streetlight, it becomes a little more difficult (not much mind you) to select the contact instead of the streetlight.
*click*
No, not the bench.
*click*
not the streetlamp either!
*click*
WTH! why did they make chunks of pavement clickable!!!
*click*
Finally, now to attack the Helli-
*you have been defeated*
As the owner of this idea, I supposed it's my responsibility to defend/clarify as many points as possible. First of all, this power was seen as more of an ancilliary power like a pool power or a vet power. Relying on this power as part of your primary line up would be to your detriment. There are plenty of items in every map that can be added as throwable, without replacing the items that are part of the maps archetecture. I agree with Sam that there hasn't been a game yet that has done throwing objects right and from the discussions on the subject in the past, a lot of the problem has had to do with a sense of weight that objects needed to have. That is something that I think this game could do well through the use of animations that would differ to give you the feel of lifting heavier or light objects. This would also give the player a visual que to the amount of damage the object would inflict. Why damage? Simply as a representation of a character drawing "inner strength" to perform a feat of...well strength. I also thought that there are enough powers that cost us precious END. I also suggested a small circular recticle at the center of mass of an object that only appeared in melee range as to not conflict with the standard target indicator. The grab/throw power will only work when near the appropriate object, so there would be no mis-clicking. Finally, I must be in the minority to think that simply reskinning Hurl would look sillier than what we have now. It's bad enough that we have to suspend imagination for the concrete slab, but to actually see you character pull creates, mailboxes, or cars our of your rear to chuck at people would really require a leave of ones senses. All thats left is a Dev to come and say that they would have to be replaced with a gibbering idiot before this would happen and that superhero x is lame.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
I'd rather just have access to random objects of the right size type for lift and throw objects. Just like the Grav power, just... with grabbing off the ground instead of summoning in midair. Problem solved.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
I agree that proper animations are the key here, but between making them and actually repopulating maps with them, it just seems quite problematic. And again, I don't see the ability to lift and throw cars as really in the realm of ability of anyone other than Super Strength and MAYBE stone melee. I understand that practically everyone in comic books has super strength, but to me at least, it'd seem odd for everyone to be chucking trucks.
And I actually have to reaffirm my desire for random Propel debris in Hurl. Yes, it would be unrealistic, I admit, but this is a case where I have to summon up the Rule of Cool. Seeing a character chuck a junk car at an enemy is worth looking the other way when he reaches out and pulls it out of the aether. Yes, the asphalt slab makes SLIGHTLY more sense, but it looks SO BAD that I'll take unrealistic over silly any day of the week.
Actually, a big problem I've had with this that Champions Online demonstrated is that this kind of environmental interaction is quite... Distracting, shall we say. It's a major hassle to go look for the item, pick it up, then go back and find an enemy to chuck it at, when a single-click action would launch a conventional attack, and it's always a question between fighting effectively or going out of your way for a gimmick. I say a gimmick, because even in Champions where it was actually useful, it was still more of a hassle than it was worth, especially since heavy objects weren't as common.
I would indeed enjoy a bit more environment interaction, but I'm not sure I'd want to enter it into combat, is all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Ok it's that time again. Time to bring up manipulating our environment ie. grabbing and throwing things. I am aware of the reasons why it hasn't been done in this game and I don't want to be one of those that say, "That other game has it" types, but I think there is a way to introduce it here in a way that is not only cool, but fair to all ATs and doesn't turn every zone into Boomtown.
A new option at creation - At the character creation screen, where you choose your model, you choose your "Lift Capacity". This scale determins how much your character can lift. Interactable objects will have a small color recticle that indicates at what weight it is based on your maximum. Three simple colors; Green = Easy lift, Easy Toss; Yellow = Liftable, No Toss; Red = No Lift, No Toss.
Rob from Peter to pay Paul - This new ability is not a "free lunch". Similar to powers like Repulsion field, when you lift (or weaponize) an object, you will sacrifice some damage to all your other powers. The amount of time your damage is reduced is based on your level (lower levels taking longer), while the amount of the reduction being based on the size of the object.
No one is left out - To give every AT the opportunity to use this new ability, there will be an upper limit to how much you can lift and throw. Since even support ATs have damage attacks of some form, each will be able to lift to this maximum at the higher levels, while sacrificing more of their damage dealing ability than that of the more attack-oriented ATs.
Not a new Power Set - This idea is not meant to be a new power set or to replace any existing powers, but to accentuate a characters ability. To that end, this ability is un-slottable. Like the Nemesis staff and the Black wand, its a hit or miss power that you use to round out your attack-chain, but nothing you would consider relying on in a tight jam. Because this ability effects your regular powers, it can be modified by player buffs, but at a lower scale (ie. BU + Aim will add to your lift/throw ability). The range at which one can throw an object depends on the size of the object, where smaller objects go farther. The amount of damage the object does depends on the not only the size of the object, but the amount of damage that can be sacrificed from attack powers.
City of Instanced - As we all know, this game is probably 75% instanced missions, if not more. For this reason, I would suggest that this is were the new ability would be applied. Like objects n Mayhem missions, liftable objects would have a target recticle that would appear when in melee range. The recticle is a small circlular indicator at center of mass of the object so as not block the standard target recticle as many objects would be liftable and destructable. To grab an object, you simply click on it, causing a short animation to play. Once lifted, simply select a target and click the power again to throw it. Unlike other examples of this ability, the object would not become translucent when held. This forces the player to consider his camera angle in relationship to the target before attacking, but the recticle of the target is still visible through the held object, so as to not make it cumbersome in the heat of battle. Once the object is thrown, if it hits the target, it will take the appropriate damage and the appropriate KB will be applied. Larger objects (cars, buses, larger creates, etc) will have more KB than smaller, based also on the target (Bosses tend to resist KB more than minions). If the object misses, it will act like any other physX object, but when it stops moving, it will be once again be targetable. You can use an object over and over until it is destroyed and it will behave like standard Mayhem objects.
I have been seing this in my head for a while now and there have been several suggestions that have touched on it, so I thought I would try to lay it out in some detail. Like I said, I know this has always been a tough sell, but the more I read comics, the more I think the ability to weaponize object would be a valuable addition to the game.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."