Thanks for the clarification jade.
I can understand better now but to be honest the fact I didn't realize the increaced damage of Quantums, and voids is a good indicator that their not "that" much of a threat concidering I play mostley Kheldians.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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It's gotten a lot better since the damage was made resistable. As I said, you can almost ignore it in Dwarf form. In fact, the extra damage may have even been reduced, as part of the Kheld revamp. Even if it wasn't, since Khelds can now use their innate Energy resistance against it (even in Nova form they have Energy/Neg resistance) the damage did go down. |
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
I can understand better now but to be honest the fact I didn't realize the increaced damage of Quantums, and voids is a good indicator that their not "that" much of a threat concidering I play mostley Kheldians.
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You can still be taken out by about two shots in Nova form if you're not paying attention, though. You just have more options. I've had a couple of times where a Quant caught me by surprise, and I went into Dwarf form, and survived the encounter.
And Biospark, one thing I might add is that while you might have certain weaknesses in certain forms, such as Psi as a Dwarf or mezzes as a human, you can in many cases change form to avoid them. You don't really have any protection against Psi as a Nova that you don't have as a Dwarf, but you can kill it faster. So I think in that light Quantums were meant to be a weakness in all your forms. That isn't really true as much for Dwarf form any more, but then being able to form shift isn't always all as useful as that either.
If you haven't played Kheldians since the revamp, you might try them again. You may still have to watch out for Quantums until you hit 20, they can still make your early levels a pain. But you can use your Energy Shield in Human Form to protect yourself.
I am most interested in human form Peacebringers, so perhaps I will do just that Jade. 
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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There are however Quantum Galaxies that do get the bonus damage. Don't see them too often, but I noticed them in one of the missions where all the enemies are Galaxies. There were couple of Quantum Galaxies in that one.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Oh, and Galaxies do the same damage as Nictus/Warshades. (which is just Negative Energy) They are not Quantums. Voids are, though. (Which is why that keybind searches for "quantum", "void" and "cyst")
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I've rarely died to a Quantum or Void. I have however died because I had to focus on the Q/V and was subsequently defeated by his friends.
More than the damage from the Quantums and Voids, is the high probability of a stun and knockback on their attacks. If I fail to take out or knock down the Q/V on the first volley, I'll frequently be disabled by his counter attack. In the lower levels, I'll eat a break free before attacking.
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I didn't know there were Quantum Galaxies, but I do know Voids tend to appear in place of Quantums in the Council. |
Originally Posted by Afterimage
There are however Quantum Galaxies that do get the bonus damage. Don't see them too often, but I noticed them in one of the missions where all the enemies are Galaxies. There were couple of Quantum Galaxies in that one.
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As far as the backstory is concerned, I believe the Voids are the ones responsible for distributing the Quantum weapons, and hunting down Kheldians. Quantums are basically normal members of the villain group that have a Quantum rifle, bought from the Voids. So you'll basically see Voids where a member of the villain group using a Quantum rifle doesn't make sense. (Like with Clockworks)
I personally would expect Galaxies to be hurt by Quantum energy, just like Kheldians, since they draw their powers from Nictus energies infused into their bodies. (Fragments of Nictus Cysts) But I guess you can use the rifle without being hurt yourself by it. I remember someone once asked once why we as Kheldians don't just pick the weapons up and use them against the Nictus. My answer was that I guess Kheldians just find the weapons so repulsive, that they can't bear to even use them. Either that or they would rather destroy them before they can be used on friendly Kheldians, instead of using them and running the risk of them falling back into the Council's hands.
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| More than the damage from the Quantums and Voids, is the high probability of a stun and knockback on their attacks. |
It's just too bad Human form doesn't have a similar alternative, other than just being attentive.
I'm about to make my third attempt at playing a Peacebringer, and I think the thing that's kept me from sticking with one is dealing with slotting for the alternate forms, since the powers of the forms need to be slotted separately from the other powers. Taking the forms results in having anywhere between 4 to 10 more powers than a base AT build does. While that can be an advantage, you don't get any extra slots for those extra powers, and I find myself wondering how I'm going to adequately slot them.
This time, I think I'm going to go with a human-form Peacebringer and just not bother with the forms.
Currently published Mission Architect arcs:
Arc ID# 70466: From the Abyss.
Arc ID# 403174: The Serpent's Revenge.
Arc ID# 534236: The Clockwork Angel.
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Don't get the tri-formers started...|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
It's just too bad Human form doesn't have a similar alternative, other than just being attentive.
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"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Slot -kb IOs. There is also a set that gives KB resist as a bonus I think.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Yeah, this is really the big thing for me. I can deal with the damage, but if I'm caught off guard the problem is being knocked around like a rag doll while I try to figure out where the shot is coming from. At least, again, the Dwarf form puts a stop to that.
It's just too bad Human form doesn't have a similar alternative, other than just being attentive. |
The stun you could slot for reduced % duration, but that's totally not worthwhile considering how weak the reduction actually is. Instead slot for defense and have those shots miss more often.
You can also use the enhancement buffs from your supergroup base to mitigate both stun and knockback for 1 hour at a time for a very low cost (average 600inf for the cheapest -kb buff to buy the salvage required off the market).
So you have options even in human form.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Response to OP:
My problem is that I really like the Kheldian powersets/animations, what I dislike is the shapeshift dancing that seems to be necessary to be effective. I am also someone who likes fairly instant results in SOME respect. With all the other archtypes, you can do something really well right off the bat. Sure, blasters and scrappers are going to have the easiest time soloing, but by level 4 defenders, tankers, and controllers will all be able to keep their team alive, take the hits and keep on coming, and provide some sort of containment (all respectively of course). With the Kheldians, unfortunately for someone in my position that wants to skip the forms, we get some pretty good rapid-fire attacks and a decent shield all prior to level 6, and can take things down relatively easily, albeit a little slower than damaging ATs. But post lvl 8, unless you've taken Nova, that really all starts to change and you need a good amount of patience for about the next 10 levels before you start to get some worthwhile attack chains going.
The crux of the matter: I would love to build a human-only warshade and/or peacebringer, because I love the idea of a Blapper-type character who can withstand a hit or two. But with the PB, you almost need to take Fitness>Stamina to deal with the endurance woes, and there are so many other powers to choose from that it is hard to take that and skip others until later levels. (Let's be realistic, Conserve Energy does not really count due to it's excruciatingly long recharge.) With the human-only warshade idea, it seems really good on paper, especially Stygian Circle and Essence Drain since those can take care of health/endurance problem, but I am so damn afraid to try it because all I ever hear is doom from dedicated triformers.
I have tried twice now to say, "You know, the Kheldians just will not be what I want them to be," and walk away. But I am so drawn to the backstory and the powersets that I cannot stay away, despite the fact that I hit the same walls every time I attempt to build one.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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KB protection IO in Incandescence/Absorption, mez resists in set bonuses.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
(Said regarding the stun and KB in quantum blasts.) It's just too bad Human form doesn't have a similar alternative, other than just being attentive.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Mez resists in set bonuses is absolutely laughable. I made a build recently that got up to 80-something percent mez resist (I think for stuns), and it was still laughable, because getting up to 100% mez resist only cuts a mez duration in half.... You'd need 200% mez resist to make a mez "unnoticeable"... Therefore, getting a "huge" mez resist bonus from, say, Soulbound Allegiance is only....4.4%.
Mez resist via set bonuses is a joke--just like building for extra damage resistance via set bonuses is a joke.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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See, this is EXACTLY what I've been talking about, Obsidian_Force2....|
Originally Posted by Winterminal
With the human-only warshade idea, it seems really good on paper, especially Stygian Circle and Essence Drain since those can take care of health/endurance problem, but I am so damn afraid to try it because all I ever hear is doom from dedicated triformers.
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Playing a human-form Warshade is VERY viable and VERY surviveable. The only real hole in a human-former build is mez protection.
If you'd like some advice on properly building a human-only Warshade, click on my guide link below, and/or send me a tell in-game @AlienOne, and I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have.
Screw the tri-formers "doom and gloom" attitutde about making a human-former...
They truly have no friggin' clue what they're talking about.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Hey now, I'm a die hard TriFormShade, but I have no problems with someone wanting to stay human only. I know human form only is very difficult while leveling up, which is some of the reason I went with a tri-form. I'll never berate and demean anyone for playstyle (unless it's a petless MM or an empath with no attacks). In fact, I started a PB recently that's human form only, and I completely sympathize with all the common reasons not to take forms.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Screw the tri-formers "doom and gloom" attitutde about making a human-former...
They truly have no friggin' clue what they're talking about. "Alien" |
As for me and my shade, though, I embraced the dance from level one and never respec'd out of it. I'm ok with the three seconds it takes me to switch forms. I enjoy the fact that I can dwarf through the Romulus rez stun if need be. I like having a solid AoE attack chain in nova form. I like the ability to double mire and drop an unchain essence.
I'm not going to claim that my way is the best. I'm not even going to claim that it's good. I'm just going to say that it's the way I've done things, and it's gotten me this far.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I've played human-only from level 1 to the current level 38 on my human-only warshade, over 90% of the journey has been solo, and its been fun. I've also taken a tri-form shade to 50, so I have some hands-on experience at sorting out the difference between leveling up tri-form and leveling up human-only.
The difficulties of leveling up a human only warshade have been exaggerated. It may have been very difficult many issues in the past. But, it isn't anymore.
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I took a human-only Warshade from 1 to 39 and 1 to 50 never having used the forms once and this was before IOs and IO sets and it was a blast and completely viable. Once you get Eclipse just about everything becomes irrelevant and you are then looking for things that can possible kill you.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
See, this is EXACTLY what I've been talking about, Obsidian_Force2....
Playing a human-form Warshade is VERY viable and VERY surviveable. The only real hole in a human-former build is mez protection. If you'd like some advice on properly building a human-only Warshade, click on my guide link below, and/or send me a tell in-game @AlienOne, and I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have. Screw the tri-formers "doom and gloom" attitutde about making a human-former... They truly have no friggin' clue what they're talking about. "Alien" |
In my opinion human only is the only way to play a Warshade, but then I also say the same thing about playing Peacebringers also.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
You are correct Jade_Dragon regarding many powersets having certain built in weaknesses, and to be quite fair, I steer away from them as much as possible as well.
My First scrapper was MA/SR and I would love to have stayed with it, but it was not my kind of challenge. Waiting till late 30s to feel "super" and being required to take 8/9 of the powers didnt seem very fair.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF