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Originally Posted by Witch_Engine View Post
Actually, by all accounts of friends who were actually at Herocon, they actually made a mention that best faction was one of the most important categories to the devs, so go figure.
Wait, does that mean that after getting slaughtered by countless enemies with Build Up and Rage and Power Sink and Web Grenade spam and dealing with Extreme AVs at level 20 they might finally realize that the Standard/Hard/Extreme power selections are totally unreasonable and custom critters are totally overpowered for lower levels, capable of insane amounts of debuff stacking especially when the stupid amount of space they take up can limit a faction's diversity, and can annihilate characters that fight Malta on +2/x8 for fun but are still worth less xp?

Wouldn't that be nice?


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

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That would be fantastic, Eva. I really hope that's the case, since it's a huge problem right now enticing people to play a lot of arcs in AE as the current situation is that either your enemies are comparable to high-end in game factions but are worth less XP, or they're worth full XP but basically impossible for certain ATs to play, and even all ATs in certain combinations


 

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I'm a very information oriented person, so of course the more details about the judging and selection process the Devs wanted to give the more I'd like it. But I also understand why they almost certainly won't divulge that information.

However, the one thing I'd really love is a list of all of the arcs that were actually in the judging. Here's why: To me there's a huge difference between my arc getting seen and judged and found lacking, and simply being removed from the running just because I made some mistake in the submission process.

As an example: if the devs really did see Freakshow U (just as an example) and didn't think it was good enough to make the cut and didn't think it was good enough for dev's choice, then it's a safe bet that it'll *never* win even if I submit it next year, and that it'll never be dev's choice - ever. That means it's time to move on (to new arcs; I'm not talking about quitting) - submit a different arc next year, and, unless F.U. somehow makes Hall of Fame (which it flat out doesn't appear to be on track for), that the arc is best thought of (for me) as in the "not a priority to keep up there when the time comes that I want the slot for something else." On the other hand, if it wasn't even looked at because it got disqualified for some reason (maybe the devs wanted all of the entries in a single e-mail, instead of one per e-mail... who knows) - that tells me that it *might* have a chance in the future, if I don't make the same mistake so that it actually gets looked at and judged.

A few more things. (1) I would love to know which arcs were close to getting nominations, but didn't quite make it. And (2) I really wished that the devs had actually given at least some in game feedback on the submitted arcs - I think I was secretly hoping that it would be a chance to have some idea what the devs thought of my arcs. Really, both points are related - both bits of feedback tell me if there's a point at all in making a few modifications to what I think is a good arc and trying again, or if it's just too far gone (at least in the dev's eyes), and it's time to move on to new ideas.


M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice! )
Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)

 

Posted

Any explication of the process is going to lead to second-guessing, rules-lawyering or worse. What happens if it turns out that a significant number of arcs were never judged because (e.g.) lots of people misunderstood the instructions, or because their automation trashed entries? They (and we) would never hear the end of it.

Whatever the reason, an arc that didn't win or place this year probably isn't going to do any better in the future. Accept it and move on.

Oh, and if the devs really think custom mobs are one of "the most important" elements...that's sad.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

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Originally Posted by The_Cheshire_Cat View Post
Actually Aeon did say he would use the submissions as a pool to draw from for DCs, and I'm assuming the nominees would probably be the first ones he'd take a look at.

So that doesn't GUARANTEE Dev's Choice but I'd say it offers a pretty good shot at it.
Sucks for non-Americans...


Players' Choice Awards: Best Dual-Origin Level Range Arc!

It's a new era, the era of the Mission Architect. Can you save the Universe from...

The Invasion of the Bikini-clad Samurai Vampiresses from Outer Space? - Arc ID 61013

 

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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5 View Post
I'd kind of doubt the devs had any sort of list-able criteria they could tell us about. I'm guessing they just sat down and fired up the arcs and then wrote down how they felt about it afterward, noting the obvious errors (grammar, etc) that might disqualify them. Other than that, we were all prey to their very personal and subject feelings at the time they played them. If RednameX had an upset stomach the day he played your arc, then it might not go so well for you.

You know, the way it always goes for arc ratings.
My one entry was for enemy group - I nominated the Satyri from my Latin language arc. I suspect that the arc itself was probably unintelligible for any devs who took a look at it, as it will be for most players. I was rather proud of those enemies, though.

The sorts of things I write won't get awards. When was the last time a farce, a science fiction film, or an action picture won Best Picture at the Oscars? I don't expect to see that happen very often, and the sorts of fiction that get considered for things like the Booker Prize are even more constricted and dull. I accept that.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
Any explication of the process is going to lead to second-guessing, rules-lawyering or worse. What happens if it turns out that a significant number of arcs were never judged because (e.g.) lots of people misunderstood the instructions, or because their automation trashed entries? They (and we) would never hear the end of it.

Whatever the reason, an arc that didn't win or place this year probably isn't going to do any better in the future. Accept it and move on.

Oh, and if the devs really think custom mobs are one of "the most important" elements...that's sad.
I have a feeling that if we do see any details of the process it would be something like:

"We had 5 panels of 10 people who played the arcs in each division and scored them on a 5 point scale, with the 3 highest scores being nominated. Those nominees were the played by a different group of 5 panels of 10 people who scored them on a 5 point scale with the highest score winning"

or something to that effect. Specific enough to give insight to the process, but not specific enough to give away any "secrets" of what the judging was on.


 

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Originally Posted by Aliana Blue View Post
Sucks for non-Americans...
I'm hoping they at least do something similar at one of the larger Euro Cons in the hear future.


 

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Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
I'm hoping they at least do something similar at one of the larger Euro Cons in the hear future.
Personally, I think they should change the prizes to be in-game rewards only. That way the European/Canadian rules would be irrelevant and everyone could participate.


131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )

 

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Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
Personally, I think they should change the prizes to be in-game rewards only. That way the European/Canadian rules would be irrelevant and everyone could participate.
Unfortunately, that kills some of their cross-promotional ability though. It's always a catch-22 on things like this.


 

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Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
Personally, I think they should change the prizes to be in-game rewards only. That way the European/Canadian rules would be irrelevant and everyone could participate.
Actually Canada was able to participate just fine (I'm Canadian). It's just Quebec that's out because of specific laws for that province (A few American States were ineligible for similar reasons).

I do agree though. In-game rewards would be more inclusive and really, the physical prizes weren't even that GREAT (I've got a mid-range video card which is more or less the same as what they were giving out).


Astoria in D Minor, a horror arc. Arc ID: 41565 - The Beating Heart of Astoria: A Play in Five Acts. Arc ID: 170547 - Ignition of the Machine, a story with robots. Arc ID: 318983
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I wanted to post here something form someone with the EU view. It turned out in an angry rant how I feel about this.

Lets just say.
Next event please one with ingame prices only so that everybody benefits.


 

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Don't the EU servers have their own separate staff though? If anything, EU players should complain to those staff members about not having similar contests, not the NA staff, who are legally powerless to do much here. If an EU player is using the NA servers instead of their own, which they have to buy a foreign copy of the game in order to do, that's not really the fault or responsiblity of the NA staff.


 

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Originally Posted by Witch_Engine View Post
Don't the EU servers have their own separate staff though? If anything, EU players should complain to those staff members about not having similar contests, not the NA staff, who are legally powerless to do much here. If an EU player is using the NA servers instead of their own, which they have to buy a foreign copy of the game in order to do, that's not really the fault or responsiblity of the NA staff.
I was going to make some cracks saying 'we have staff?' or maybe a few 'lolEU' jokes, but so as to not bring this thread down I think I'll just follow Gunbunny's cue and just say make the next comp in-game please (and if you really want to host one at Herocon, then just make it the 'Herocon Awards' or something).


A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread

 

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Originally Posted by The_Cheshire_Cat View Post
Actually Canada was able to participate just fine (I'm Canadian). It's just Quebec that's out because of specific laws for that province (A few American States were ineligible for similar reasons).

I do agree though. In-game rewards would be more inclusive and really, the physical prizes weren't even that GREAT (I've got a mid-range video card which is more or less the same as what they were giving out).
Something like:
Best Overall: Your choice of 1 PVP or Purple IO set (for one toon only) + 1 extra MA slot + 1 extra character slot on the server of your choice

Each Category Winner: Your choice of a Purple IO set + 1 extra MA slot

Category Runner-Ups: Your choice of an Orange IO set + 1 extra MA slot

I think this would encourage as much participation as a physical prize.


131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )

 

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Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
Something like:
Best Overall: Your choice of 1 PVP or Purple IO set (for one toon only) + 1 extra MA slot + 1 extra character slot on the server of your choice

Each Category Winner: Your choice of a Purple IO set + 1 extra MA slot

Category Runner-Ups: Your choice of an Orange IO set + 1 extra MA slot

I think this would encourage as much participation as a physical prize.
As I recall, and mind you it has been some time since I had to deal with anything like this, that would not solve the "problem" at all. The prize isn't the issue, it's the contest itself.

If NCSoft suddenly came into billions of bucks and wanted to be generous, they could send every single player a brand new SotA Gaming Rig without any trouble at all. So, the prize being physical items is not an issue. What causes problem is when they add a "some get it, some do not, here are the rules and regulations, you have to enter for it" contest to it. Due to differing laws in different countries (heck, different states) they have to make sure they comply with anything from contest laws, to gaming/gambling laws, to tax laws.

By way of example, in the recent Twitter costume code giveaways, they quite quickly squelched chatter about it being a "contest" and corrected people who were calling it one saying it was explictly a giveaway. That kept them from running afoul of any laws since they were giving the codes to any and all who wanted it with the only determining factor being how fast you could enter it into your account when it was valid.

Beyond that, giving away merchandise helps solidify their contacts in the game industry (ATi and Razor beign quite prominant currently).


 

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Based on the quality of the spelling, idiosyncratic writing, use of repetitive gimmicks, etc., of a couple of the winning arcs I've run through, I don't think the decision was made based on technicalities. It seems unlikely anyone was penalized for not including one of the files if the judges thought the arc deserved to win.

Preference seems to have been shown for arcs that are constructed like short stories rather than missions. Intentional or not, arcs that won were diametrically opposed to farms.

Personally, I prefer arcs that are well-written and work well mechanically (i.e., don't waste a lot of the player's time running back and forth between levels looking for multiple chained spawns of bosses and glowies, or using enemies that have powers that totally hose the vast majority of characters). If someone wants to run through the mission completely ignoring the story they should have as much fun as someone who hangs on every line.

The thing to take away from this: think of it as a short story contest instead of mission contest.


 

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The issue isn't that judges might have marked down an arch if a file was missing or corrupted. It's that the judges may have never even seen the arc.

I can't imagine why anyone who doesn't care about the story behind a mission would still be playing this game. If you don't care about story there are forms of entertainment just as rewarding that require far less effort, such as Bejeweled or network television.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

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Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
Based on the quality of the spelling, idiosyncratic writing, use of repetitive gimmicks, etc., of a couple of the winning arcs I've run through, I don't think the decision was made based on technicalities. It seems unlikely anyone was penalized for not including one of the files if the judges thought the arc deserved to win.

Preference seems to have been shown for arcs that are constructed like short stories rather than missions. Intentional or not, arcs that won were diametrically opposed to farms.

Personally, I prefer arcs that are well-written and work well mechanically (i.e., don't waste a lot of the player's time running back and forth between levels looking for multiple chained spawns of bosses and glowies, or using enemies that have powers that totally hose the vast majority of characters). If someone wants to run through the mission completely ignoring the story they should have as much fun as someone who hangs on every line.

The thing to take away from this: think of it as a short story contest instead of mission contest.
Translation: Hello choir, I'm gonna preach at you now.


 

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Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
My one entry was for enemy group - I nominated the Satyri from my Latin language arc. I suspect that the arc itself was probably unintelligible for any devs who took a look at it, as it will be for most players. I was rather proud of those enemies, though.
I've been meaning to give that arc a run-thru with my MM Rattus Rex, since his name's in Latin. Don't get me wrong, I don't know Latin, I just looked up "rat" in the dictionary and swapped in a "rex", but it would seem fitting somehow for him to run through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
The sorts of things I write won't get awards. When was the last time a farce, a science fiction film, or an action picture won Best Picture at the Oscars? I don't expect to see that happen very often, and the sorts of fiction that get considered for things like the Booker Prize are even more constricted and dull. I accept that.
I kind of agree with you there, but what always kills me is when you see some really awful stuff win (NOT talking about these awards, I don't think I've played any of them so far, just the Oscars and stuff). There's some sort of hope dashed when some amazingly great project gets ignored...


 

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Originally Posted by Dalghryn View Post
That said, am I the only person that submitted an arc that's really curious about what went on behind the scenes? For instance, there were several technical aspects to the submissions -- making certain certain files were submitted, for example. Were arcs immediately rejected because a file was missed, or files weren't sent in directories? Were close contests won simply because the images a person submitted were bigger or crisper than others? What was the elimination process for arcs that weren't rejected on technicalities, and what was the voting process.
I am also curious about the process, but first I have a specific comment about your arc. Two of the arcs that won were arcs that had an emotional impact on me. CoW did as well, and in my opinion if the contest judges played both parts 1 and 2, CoW might have made the finals, as it impacted me as much as the 2 winners. Commenting just on the first Cow, for me it was very well written and most definately 5 stars, but without part 2, judges would be missing an important part of what you created.

As to the process, I wondered how many arcs were submitted and if all were played. This curiousity is what led me down the path of looking at star ratings and number of plays. I had wondered if the judges would use in game ratings and number of plays as a way to narrow down which arcs they played. Obviously, they did not and perhaps this answers another of my questions. I was wondering why we had to submit our arc files instead of simply the ID. Perhaps this was because the judges did not want to be biased by in-game ratings or number of plays?

I am very curious as to whether or not all arcs were played. As another poster pointed out there is a difference between having had your arc played and rejected and having it not been played at all. When the players awards contest is over, I plan to play the arc of the year as that will give me an idea as to what they are looking for. Based on the winning arcs I have played, I suspect that it was what they felt was a good story as opposed to a fun to play type arc.

I am hoping that they post the number of arcs submitted and whether or not each and every one was played or if they weeded some out without ever playing.


@Gypsy Rose

In Pursuit of Liberty - 344916
The Vigilante - 395861
Suppression - 374481 - Winner of The American Legion's February 2011 AE Author Contest

 

Posted

I always presumed that the submissions of all the architect files was just so they had a static copy that couldn't be changed after submission, to judge. If it were the actual in game files, they can be altered, republished, or taken down at any time, which opens the door for all sorts of challenges and problems (ie people saying something was or was not in their arc, claiming someone altered or vandalized it through account hacking and requesting a re-do, etc.)

With a submitted copy, the were assured to have the exact verison of the story that was intended for them to recieve - and no changes or other funny business could then take place in regards to the arc between recieving it and judging, unless it was from their own end.


 

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Originally Posted by ArrowRose View Post
As to the process, I wondered how many arcs were submitted and if all were played. This curiousity is what led me down the path of looking at star ratings and number of plays. I had wondered if the judges would use in game ratings and number of plays as a way to narrow down which arcs they played. Obviously, they did not and perhaps this answers another of my questions. I was wondering why we had to submit our arc files instead of simply the ID. Perhaps this was because the judges did not want to be biased by in-game ratings or number of plays?

I am very curious as to whether or not all arcs were played. As another poster pointed out there is a difference between having had your arc played and rejected and having it not been played at all.
Exactly! (And it was me who made that observation) An arc that was never even looked at, on a technicality, may very well be an arc that *could* win or place very high if it ever was looked at. And is, therefore, at least something that the author might want to consider submitting again. An arc that *was* played, but didn't win is only going to fare better on re-submission if, for some reason, next years' overall crop of arcs is just a whole lot lower in quality (which, frankly, is unlikely - even if you can't rule out the possibility). But, as it stands, there's no real way at the moment to know which arcs were actually looked at and which weren't (other than the obvious assumption that the winning arcs were among the subset that were looked at).

That's why I'd love to know which arcs actually made it into the judging phase, versus the ones that were flat out disqualified.


M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice! )
Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)

 

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Originally Posted by ArrowRose View Post
I am also curious about the process, but first I have a specific comment about your arc. Two of the arcs that won were arcs that had an emotional impact on me. CoW did as well, and in my opinion if the contest judges played both parts 1 and 2, CoW might have made the finals, as it impacted me as much as the 2 winners. Commenting just on the first Cow, for me it was very well written and most definately 5 stars, but without part 2, judges would be missing an important part of what you created...
Thanks a bunch for the kind words re. CoW. I think Bubbawheat demonstrated a better handle on what makes a good award contest than the powers did by including multi-arcs.

I certainly think that multi-arcs in the MA may be victims of their creators ambition when it comes to contests and Dev's Choices. I find that a little funny concerning the vast majority of CoH content arcs run more than five missions and there are many multi-arcs in the game.

Quote:
An arc that was never even looked at, on a technicality, may very well be an arc that *could* win or place very high if it ever was looked at. And is, therefore, at least something that the author might want to consider submitting again. An arc that *was* played, but didn't win is only going to fare better on re-submission if, for some reason, next years' overall crop of arcs is just a whole lot lower in quality...
To quote you, "Exactly!" Which is why I started this thread to begin with. Though, in regard to your quote, I will point out that it will also benefit people who had arcs that were played but didn't win in that now they know that perhaps some revision could improve their chances in 2010.


The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG

"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496