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Do you honestly think "Man, I should stop running Architect/Paper missions and do some contact missions in case I ever need to buy inspirations in this zone?" That doesn't happen. People play what they play, and on the off chance they need inspirations and they don't want to rely on trops, they can drop by one of the myriad of places that sell them. Forcing people to buy inspirations from contacts will not make just about anyone play contact missions if THAT were the only reason to do so.|
Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
But we are not discussing those changes. Heck, I know that I will like the convenience of buying inspirations at hospitals. I am as lazy as anybody else. What I do NOT like is that 90% of the teams I have been in, are only doing Radio missions. Simple because they are so much more convenient then the awkward running around with normal missions. I am against solutions that will make playing normal contacts content even less important. Being able to buy insps at every hospital is one such thing I fear will make normal content less important.
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All this does is screw over people who actually PLAY contact missions. "Oh, wait, I worked for contacts in Talos Island only, but they keep sending me to Independence Port, where I don't know anyone. Poopy!" If I'm running paper missions, I won't run into an EB, and therefore the actual NEED I'll have for inspirations is negligible. In the Architect, I have a shop within spitting distance. The only time I DO have a need for inspirations but NO good, convenient way to acquire them is when I'm actually playing regular content.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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As nice as this would be, Id rather see the medical stuff in supergroup bases upgraded to sell all inspirations instead. I often spawn at my base and I've wanted this for quite awhile myself.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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Yet they're just as useless QOL changes. |
Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
Nice list. Within it a few sad cases of almost not supported content like superbases and raids.
 What would I like to remove from the above? Nothing. |
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| But we are not discussing those changes. Heck, I know that I will like the convenience of buying inspirations at hospitals. I am as lazy as anybody else. What I do NOT like is that 90% of the teams I have been in, are only doing Radio missions. Simple because they are so much more convenient then the awkward running around with normal missions. I am against solutions that will make playing normal contacts content even less important. Being able to buy insps at every hospital is one such thing I fear will make normal content less important. |
I have to admit, though, I have no idea where you're finding these just-radio-mission teams. The PuGs I end up with tend to be doing regular missions, unless we're JUST starting a level range (usually pre-20) and people want their travel power and rez.
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| Should they remove insp from the AE building then? This would be better for the original content but would hurt the AE-content a lot. Maybe insp that only work in the AE are a solution here. |
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That is an idea I like to make an SG base of more use.
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Originally Posted by Noyjitat
As nice as this would be, Id rather see the medical stuff in supergroup bases upgraded to sell all inspirations instead. I often spawn at my base and I've wanted this for quite awhile myself.
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Good point there. But do you have trouble now getting inspirations form all the sources we have available these days?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The only time I DO have a need for inspirations but NO good, convenient way to acquire them is when I'm actually playing regular content.
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Some of those actually help the teaming thing like super SK. A lot is useless but does not harm the lets call it "core of the game".|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Yet they're just as useless QOL changes.
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Do you ask for the star? Do you ask for them to do your missions, or do regular missions? Do you make your own teams? |
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I have to admit, though, I have no idea where you're finding these just-radio-mission teams. The PuGs I end up with tend to be doing regular missions, unless we're JUST starting a level range (usually pre-20) and people want their travel power and rez.
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| Only now that I reach the 40's do I encounter less radio teams. |
That confused me as well
Ok. No special inspirations then.
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And I have to say I think you're vastly overstating how this would hurt the "core of the game." I don't see it influencing the decision of which content people choose to run any more than the addition of another set of red shades in the costume editor would.
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Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
Some of those actually help the teaming thing like super SK. A lot is useless but does not harm the lets call it "core of the game".
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
There are a lot of other options to get inspirations as you can see in the posts above. I am against this so called QoL thing because it is unnecessary and it is one more 'convenient lets ignore the content' thing. You have to be careful with those.
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Serious question: Why do you people that want more QoL not suggest the ability to buy inspirations without a venor anywhere outside of a mission? That's essentially what this is leading to. Or instant travel from any point anywhere? Why have trains, or travel powers, or even haveng to move through outdoor zones?
Yes, a few years ago you could only buy inspirations from your personal contacts, and you had to use the trains and zone transitions. Now everyone can buy them without contacts and teleport via PocketD because everyone gets that VIP pass at level one and once you hit 25 everyone takes that so-convenient travel cheat with built-in onboard store called Orouboros, but that still is not convenient enough for you. But having to run ALLL the way to an AE building or the hospital will be convenient enough for the ones that come after you? Seriously?
No, you either stick with the 'QoL' to gameplay restrictions ratio we got or you demand instant access to everything everwhere, sorry.
And I'd rather have a bit of game left. With zones and a sense of distance and contacts that allow you to get stuff that you'd otherwise have a hard time getting.
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Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
And there you said it. It is not necessary.
On a different subject. I would not mind if the AE buildings disappear from half the zones. I love doing AE missions, but I fail to see why there should be a building in every zone. But lets not digress about that. |
Same with Merit vendors.
edit: the ones in the AE make sense though, as much as I'd not have them available outside of AE cotent, as they are essential during testing and they sort of ARE your contact you did missions for.
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Translation: It's not as hard as it used to be, so EVERYONE should suffer for it.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
Now everyone can buy them without contacts and teleport via PocketD because everyone gets that VIP pass at level one and once you hit 25 everyone takes that so-convenient travel cheat with built-in onboard store called Orouboros, but that still is not convenient enough for you. But having to run ALLL the way to an AE building or the hospital will be convenient enough for the ones that come after you? Seriously?
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That's like saying remove the hospiral AND the stores AND the Trainer from the Hollows. It really is.
Hell, I'd be happy with them simply allowing the stores (tech, mutant etc.) to BUY and SELL Inspirations. It makes as much logical sense, after all. Some little trick or gizmo you can use in tough spot.
This is hardly a game breaking request. I really cannot see any logical reason from Blue or GS about why this should be stopped, other than 'Back in the day we-' yaddayadda...
In case your wondering, I still run the Hollows without first going to Kings Row most of the time, I tend not to get the Ouro portal until I remember when a SG friend uses it or something...the point is just because YOU don't want a QoL change doesnt mean everyone else should be penalised for it. You can keep buying them from the contacts you get, as much as you want. The rest of us can use them when we need em and get on with enjoying the game.
/Opinion and Vocalisation
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The thought behind putting a insp. vendor in the hospital is simple:|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
I agree.
Serious question: Why do you people that want more QoL not suggest the ability to buy inspirations without a venor anywhere outside of a mission? That's essentially what this is leading to. Or instant travel from any point anywhere? Why have trains, or travel powers, or even haveng to move through outdoor zones? Yes, a few years ago you could only buy inspirations from your personal contacts, and you had to use the trains and zone transitions. Now everyone can buy them without contacts and teleport via PocketD because everyone gets that VIP pass at level one and once you hit 25 everyone takes that so-convenient travel cheat with built-in onboard store called Orouboros, but that still is not convenient enough for you. But having to run ALLL the way to an AE building or the hospital will be convenient enough for the ones that come after you? Seriously? |
Usually, you will buy the most inspirations after you have died. either because your stock is depleted of because you're like "Crap, I'm gonna need some defense and healing to beat this EB." Running to AE doesn't make in-character sense (they're virtual reality, seriously, you wouldn't even think about the inspirations there.)
And of course, there's contacts.. Let's say you're on a mission in IP, and your only contact is clear across the map.
If you're solo of course (which is when you will use the most inspirations), you don't want to leave the zone because, IIRC, leaving the zone resets your mission.
I will ask you something now:
With how readily available they are, what is the HARM in putting an inspiration vendor someplace it bloody well should have been in the first place?
Also, you would think from the in-character stand point, more and more people would start selling inspirations. Paragon City is populated by thousands of heroes, those heroes use inspirations. Sounds to me like a damn good business move.
Another alternative, if the devs were reluctant to put a full insp vendor in the hospital, would be to add something equivalent to the AutoDoc. There, you can only buy greens and blues, though I would assume that they would remove the insp selling functionality. Then, you would have the basic "patch you up" insps readily available, but if you wanted to get the really game-changing ones, like purples, you would have to hunt down a contact or other insp vendor.
My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money
Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?
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So that's it, then? Those are the only two choices.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
No, you either stick with the 'QoL' to gameplay restrictions ratio we got or you demand instant access to everything everwhere, sorry.
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Well, good to know. Glad you've cleared that up for us.
Spade, Blue, this is a game where we have choices to play how we want.
If I want to twink out a character to the max? I can play the market, get up a bunch IO sets and twink them out like the mother @#$%ing Fist of the North Star, Jesus Christ!
If I wanted to make a villain AT who was heroic and didn't want to do any of the usual contact missions until GR comes out? (And really, isn't GR a good example of playing how you want to play?) I can have them run heroic AT missions and Co-op zone contacts like the mother @#$%ing Fist of the North Star, Jesus Christ!
If I've run a specific level range of contact missions ad-nauseum and just want to get level range over with? I can run my "Newspaper/radio only" missions, us AE, or what have you, like the Mother @#$%ing Fist of the North Star, Jesus Christ!
And finally, how is it possible for inspiration vendors in hospitals to hurt core content? I'm seriously retarded, I make no delusions about that, so I'm probably just missing something here but reading over your posts, I haven't seen anything that explains exactly how this hurts core content like you claim it will!
Also, consider that inf tends to suffer from painful inflation, and with the only real sinks being WW's or the Blackmarket where the inflation is actually felt (well, the tailor might be another example), we need more inf sinks.
To that end I would like to mention that not only do I support the suggestion, but also the idea of being able to purchase some temp powers as well. (The trick to it would be balancing them to where they're useful enough that you always want to have it handy, and not breaking the game.)
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Trouble? You bet! When I have my eye on that EB who killed me and I want to rush back and have my revenge, the LAST thing I want to do is zone into Pocket D or cross the zone twice so I can get to the Architect before I get back into the fight. The hospital trip is punishment enough, to say nothing of the debt. I don't need the aggravation of wanting to settle the score and being sidetracked in doing so.|
Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
Good point there. But do you have trouble now getting inspirations form all the sources we have available these days?
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If I want inspirations for the sake of having inspirations (and I don't want to wait on drops for some reason), then sure. I'll go to wherever I need to go to get them. Since I don't want them RIGHT NOW HURRY I can invest the time needed to go to wherever I need to go.
However, any situation that sends me to the hospital (and mind you, I do my darnest to avoid going) also sends me there with an EMPTY inspirations tray. If I resorted to going there, that means I used up ALL of my other options and I still failed. Therefore, every time I am there, I need more inspirations to kill whatever it is that killed me. Going against the EB that killed me with an empty inspirations tray is akin to Diablo 2 making you go back to the boss that killed you NAKED so that you can pick your items back up. And when I'm hurt, angry and looking for payback, I do NOT want to run all over creation to search for an inspirations vendor.
And it's ten times worse when I'm on a TF. Seriously, if you lose you're inspirations in Cimerora, you're SOL. NO-ONE sells any. At all. Especially when you're doing the ITF.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Maybe you are right Memphis and I am vastly overstating this. But I see how much of the original content is being replaced by 'convenient' time savers that ruin the game for me. This says something about how inconvenient the original content is of course. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And I have to say I think you're vastly overstating how this would hurt the "core of the game." I don't see it influencing the decision of which content people choose to run any more than the addition of another set of red shades in the costume editor would.
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But, I want to avoid adding more conveniences that distract from in this case: using contacts or you superbase for inspirations.
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I understand your frustrations in this. But right now Pocket D, AE buildings or contacts are not far away. For that matter, neither is the superbase where you can get inspirations AND buffs so you can defeat that EB.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Trouble? You bet!
SNIP And it's ten times worse when I'm on a TF. Seriously, if you lose you're inspirations in Cimerora, you're SOL. NO-ONE sells any. At all. Especially when you're doing the ITF. |
I do however concur that Cimerora could use a hospital inspiration guru. (seller sounds wrong somehow) Even if you can have a contact there with plenty of inspirations if yo do a few missions for him.
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You can't exit the zone during and ITF without breaking from the team if there's one person from another faction if I recall.
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Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
I understand your frustrations in this. But right now Pocket D, AE buildings or contacts are not far away. For that matter, neither is the superbase where you can get inspirations AND buffs so you can defeat that EB.
I do however concur that Cimerora could use a hospital inspiration guru. (seller sounds wrong somehow) Even if you can have a contact there with plenty of inspirations if yo do a few missions for him. |
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Don't use them, then. Keep tracking down your contacts to buy your inspirations if you prefer the inconvenience. Other players' desire to save time isn't going to be your problem unless you make it your problem.
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Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
MI see how much of the original content is being replaced by 'convenient' time savers that ruin the game for me.
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I am as fond of convenience as everyone else I am afraid. Just as I am fond of chocolate despite the fact that it is not good for me.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Don't use them, then. Keep tracking down your contacts to buy your inspirations if you prefer the inconvenience. Other players' desire to save time isn't going to be your problem unless you make it your problem.
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No, the points is, after whatever they did to ease it, it was never enough.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Translation: It's not as hard as it used to be, so EVERYONE should suffer for it.
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It will never be convenient enough for a lot of people, with or without inspiration vendors in hospitals. They'll just demand yet another step on top of those then, so I'd rather try to slow it down here already.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
That's like saying remove the hospiral AND the stores AND the Trainer from the Hollows. It really is.
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The hollows are at least pretty large and have a unique landscape, so they still stay unique in a way.
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
The thought behind putting a insp. vendor in the hospital is simple:
Usually, you will buy the most inspirations after you have died. |
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
Running to AE doesn't make in-character sense (they're virtual reality, seriously, you wouldn't even think about the inspirations there.)
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
I will ask you something now:
With how readily available they are, what is the HARM in putting an inspiration vendor someplace it bloody well should have been in the first place? Also, you would think from the in-character stand point, more and more people would start selling inspirations. Paragon City is populated by thousands of heroes, those heroes use inspirations. Sounds to me like a damn good business move. |
But I'm not a fan of that.
Also, it does make original contact less used and look stupid. After a few missions your contact tells you you can now buy red and blue inspirations from him, and you go "What? Is he stupid? I can buy all of them at every hospital!". Who goes to PocketD to buy inspirations now there's an AE building in almost every town? And who here buys SOs from contacts anymore, that were once the prime source for them?
The everything everywhere QoL trend significantly changes the consitency of the game world, and I want that at least to be considered.
I would be willing to accept the contacts not having inspirations if the hospitals did. Everyone visits the hospital eventually.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Last point first - contacts have never been the "prime source" for them. They were only *a* source for the "Power 10" inspirations, and generally at higher prices. The stores, initially, were hidden. Not marked on the map *at all.* (Another of those QOL things that got added.) Started in Issue 3 here, I have almost *never* purchased SOs (or DOs) from a contact. |
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
Also, it does make original contact less used and look stupid. After a few missions your contact tells you you can now buy red and blue inspirations from him, and you go "What? Is he stupid? I can buy all of them at every hospital!". Who goes to PocketD to buy inspirations now there's an AE building in almost every town? And who here buys SOs from contacts anymore, that were once the prime source for them? |
Second, if I'm passing through Pocket D (hit the tailor there, winter event, player event, meeting someone for a quick arena match,) I'm buying my inspirations there. If I'm closer to my contact - why would I travel to AE (or the hospital) to buy the inspirations, given I'm *right there?* Thus the "convenience" that's brought up.
If I'm at (or closer to) the hospital, I'll buy them there (if they were available) instead of making a needless trip to the contact.
If I'm at (or closer to) the contact, I'll buy them there instead of making a needless trip to the hospital/AE/the base.
Neither one breaks the game, or makes me ignore the other.
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Well, then, pipe down. "Don't introduce convenience features because I'm philosophically opposed to using them but lack the strength of will to live up to my own beliefs" isn't a valid argument against. |
Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
I am as fond of convenience as everyone else I am afraid. Just as I am fond of chocolate despite the fact that it is not good for me.
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"Go to your base" is about as terrible an argument as get a team. Suppose I don't have one? And I don't. Only a handful of characters of mine have access to a SG base with... Well, anything. The rest are either out of a SG or in a SG where I haven't bothered to man a base by myself. I don't have one, so going to my base is not an option. Going to Pocket D isn't really an option when my mission is on the butt end of Independence Port. Or in Croatoa, you know. No Pocket D, no Architect. Or in Striga Island. Or in the Hollows.|
Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
I understand your frustrations in this. But right now Pocket D, AE buildings or contacts are not far away. For that matter, neither is the superbase where you can get inspirations AND buffs so you can defeat that EB.
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What does it take away to have these things? Are you honestly saying that someone will pick to do contact missions over paper missions hinging on "I can buy inspirations?" Because there is no way I can buy that, and I don't know how anyone could say it with a straight face.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Set the trams back so they're only going to one zone at a time, and you have to ride around until you get to the specific zone you want.
Remove all the costume options but tights. Just one outfit, and you can pick the color you like.
Which of course, means we can remove the other costume slots, as well.
Remove all the markers from the map. People can "discover" stores on their own.
Remove SG bases in their entirety. The real point of them was for PVP raids, after all, and they don't exist. Right now, they're nothing but a big QOL feature until you have to pay rent, in which case it's inconvenient.
Remove the mission teleporter, black market teleporter (since we'll remove consignment houses anyway,) and the like.
Remove the jetpacks from Grandville and the Shard.
Remove SSKing.
Put hazard zone levels back.
Remove globals.
Get rid of the new email filters.
Dump power and weapon customization. They don't do anything, it's purely QOL eye candy.
Get rid of mission markers on the map.
Get rid of simultaneous mission completion.
Add the "Must click multiple glowies" back.
Remove the ability to set the difficulty of your missions.
Remove the mission drop feature.
Remove dual builds.
Remove automatic exemplaring to the top level of a task force if you're overlevel - make sure you have an EX and that they don't get DC'd.
Remove the ability to combine enhancements.
All these, and more, are just as useless, QOL features. Would you like to remove them all as well? There's a long, LONG list of purely QOL features that have been added to the game. How much do you want to remove?
What would I like to remove from the above? Nothing.
But we are not discussing those changes. Heck, I know that I will like the convenience of buying inspirations at hospitals. I am as lazy as anybody else. What I do NOT like is that 90% of the teams I have been in, are only doing Radio missions. Simple because they are so much more convenient then the awkward running around with normal missions. I am against solutions that will make playing normal contacts content even less important. Being able to buy insps at every hospital is one such thing I fear will make normal content less important.
Should they remove insp from the AE building then? This would be better for the original content but would hurt the AE-content a lot. Maybe insp that only work in the AE are a solution here.