Vigilance 2.0: Straightman Edition

Here we go again: Yet another lame-brained attempt to fix Vigilance.


Sorry about that, but it just can’t be helped. Vigilance is deeply problematic. I know, because the last time I played my Empath, I let the Tank run around at 50% Health just to soak up the bonus. Granted, I’m evil, like all Empathy Defenders, but something has to be done about the problem. Mind you, I didn’t let anyone die. (Well, not on purpose). Then again, my Empath doesn’t have Vengeance yet.



It would be so much worse if I tried something like that on my Bubbler.



Fixing Vigilance can mean two things: Changing the bonus, or changing the trigger. I propose to tweak both.* Not a lot, but just enough to make Vigilance work for all Defenders, not just evil Empaths.



First, the bonus: I suggest the bonus be divided between Endurance Reduction and Recharge Reduction. Both of these bonuses contribute to the underlying thematic goal: Allowing Defenders to do more when their teammates most need help. The exact numbers would be variable, of course, but probably weighted towards Endurance Reduction.



Second, the trigger: I propose the trigger be a Threat-weighted tabulation of enemies within 40 feet and line of sight (LOS). To be more precise, I suggest a weighting based on the relative Con level of the foe. For example, an enemy conning Green would count as 1 foe-point, a Blue-conning foe would count as 2, White as 3, Yellow as 4, Orange as 5, Red as 6, and Purple as 7. Thus a spawn of three Orange-conning Freakshow would count as 15 enemies (or foe-points) for purposes of calculating the bonus.



Third, the multiplier: Like the current model, Vigilance 2.0 probably requires a team-based multiplier. In order to accommodate soloists, I would suggest Vigilance 2.0 work solo, but also I would also propose team size increase the bonus amounts (subject to some reasonable maximum). After all, a Defender should be wary and observant protecting the citizens of Paragon City when alone, and yet be even more vigilant when accompanied by allies. However, the multiplier can be minimized (if not ignored) in light of the general rule that larger teams face larger, tougher enemy spawns.



Finally, the numbers: The numbers cannot be given values based on any purely abstract principle. Any numbers would have to be refined based upon play-testing and later actual game experience. As a starting point, however, one might try 1% Endurance Reduction per foe-point, and 0.5% Recharge Reduction per foe-point. The aforementioned spawn of three +3 Freakshow minions would thus provide the Defender with a bonus of 9% Endurance Reduction and 4.5% Recharge Reduction.



The case for changes along these lines has largely been made already. In its current form, Vigilance provides no benefit to solo Defenders. It provides almost no benefit to Trick Arrow, Force Field, Cold Domination, or Sonic Resonance Defenders who have no healing power. Worst of all, it rewards Defenders who aren’t doing their job.



This fix avoids those problems. It provides some small bonus to solo Defenders, benefits all Powersets more or less equally, and the bonus to Recharge is never useless. Additionally, this version scales up well, assisting Defenders when they most need a boost to their performance.



This suggestion is, of course, intended as a template or a road-map to revising Vigilance rather than a hard take-it-or-leave-it proposal. For example, it may be less taxing on the server to track relative threat levels than to track Con levels. I doubt it, but my knowledge of “server speed” is mostly based on observing Karen, the brunette who waits on us at the local Thursday’s. (We start the weekend early in my town.) Likewise, the 40-foot range I suggested may need to be tweaked up or down based on various considerations too numerous to list. Recharge Reduction may be left out of the final revision, based on Dev judgment, or Endurance Reduction may changed to improved Recovery. Worst of all, they may even forget to list me in the credits.



* Technically, I propose to kidnap Castle and force him to listen to whiny protest songs from the 1960s until he follows my suggestions, but there’s no need to be picky.

I'd submit that the best choice would be a sliding scale, where all teammates healthy = bonus for secondary abilities, whether that might be a straight damage buff, a chance for extra damage, or an endurance discount. As teammate average health declines, the secondary bonus phases out to be replaced by the current endurance discount on the primary. It doesn't help all Defender primaries equally, but given that Defender primaries are the most eclectic group of power sets ever collected under a single designation, that's kind of inevitable.

If the secondary boost works when solo, it would also at least partially address the issue of poor performance for many Defenders when unteamed. The current state of Defender secondaries was established when Blasters had lower base damage scale and when Blaster Defiance was, well, rather poor. The Blaster damage scale boost and Defiance 2.0 mean that Defenders can get a small damage boost without stepping on anybody's toes, IMHO.

I don't think it's mechanically possible for the game to change the bonus it gives you from enemies based on their con relative to you.

I was concerned that a Con-based method would eat up too many clock cycles to be practical. I’m not sure I believe that it’s mechanically impossible. Then again, I can’t figure out how to replace the cup-holder on my desktop, so what do I know?

<Insert Standard Code Rant Here>

I had this really awesome idea for vigilance a week ago when I was in the shower. The first thing that popped into my head was "This is great! I can go to the defender forums and become famous as the person who came up with a vigilance idea that everyone likes!" Then I realized that it wouldn't be possible under the game's powers system. Then I realized that even if it was, the suggestion would get the same mixed reviews that every vigilance suggestion does.

Okay, I’ve thought about this issue & these responses for a bit. Some reactions:


Jabberwock: Personally, I just don’t see any Damage buff ever becoming part of Vigilance. Accuracy? Maybe. Perception? Yeah, that would really be cool. But Damage is a bit orthogonal thematically to the concept of Vigilance, especially for a defender. IMHO.

I suspect that the most we will ever get from Vigilance is an indirect buff to Damage. After all, the greater the discount to Endurance the bonus to Recovery, the fewer resources that need to be committed to filling the Blue Bar. Instead of Endurance Reduction, Johnny Defender can slot Damage Enhancements. Johnny can convert all his Blues to Reds. He can take an extra attack or three instead of diving into the Fitness Pool. In some ways, this approach is actually much more flexible than a direct boost to Damage. And if low Damage is really, truly a compelling issue, then a direct boost to Damage probably makes more sense than some elaborate conditional rule. IMHO.


PK: Which code rant was that, exactly? I get them confused so easily.


Garent: If I understand you correctly, we should just give up trying to make useful suggestions. Hmmm, I’m not sure I’m convinced.


If I may, let me ask another question: What if we start at the other end? Garent’s complaint seems to be focused on the trigger component of my proposal. My proposal seems to be acting as an end of the discussion rather than the working as the beginning it was intended to be. So why not ask what works and go from there?

Well, we know Vigilance could work by providing a buff based on the number of enemies within a radius of X ft. Several powers work that way, including RttC, Invincibility, & AAO, so that approach is workable if imperfect (assuming that it does not require too many clock cycles).

We also know that the bonus can vary based on the rank of the enemy. Most Scrapper attacks have a conditional probability of 5% of a Critical Hit against Minions but a 10% conditional probability Lieutenants, Bosses, & AVs. So Castle could vary the buff based on the Rank of the enemies.

Vigilance already adjusts its bonus based on Team size, so that’s a gimme.

So far, we’re on pretty safe ground. Maybe this version is as far as we can push this general approach, but let me go out on a limb, just in case there’s more improvement within reach. What if Vigilance used the Mission level as a proxy for enemy level, so it doesn’t have to re-check level each time? That would work very well for Door missions.

What about Zones? Well, we know that the Trick-or-Treat function, for example, compares Combat Level to the current Zone. (I know all too well because I tried to explain it to a Level 40 Blaster in Atlas Park: “The reason we can’t TOT is because you are the party leader.” I don’t know how, but he managed to give me a vacant stare.) Likewise, Hazard Zone entry can consider Security Level (then) or Combat Level (now). So I suspect that we could use some assigned Level-rating for each Zone (or possibly even each neighborhood) and compare that rating to Combat Level in calculating the final buff.

Even if the final buff is nothing more than a discount to Endurance, as it currently is, this approach would benefit Defenders more evenly across Defender Primaries & avoid some of the unintended incentives created by the current form of Vigilance. Thematically, I think this form is better than the current version, which treats healing, damage mitigation, and offensive support (like Fulcrum Shift, Acid Arrow, or Tar Patch) as unequal partners.

Thanks for reading.

What I'd do:

Keep Vigilance as an endurance discount, but base it not just on teammate hp, but on teammate hp+endurance (and add the Defender into the equation, pretty please). That way, the defender can defend the most when his teammates are the most in need of help (either wounded OR powerless) and Defenders will get improved efficacy in case a battle is drawn out, allowing to rebuff those bubbles or make sure those toggles don't drop when they're needed the most.

Let Defenders make a comeback when everyone is at their last straw.

Putting in the endurance component makes the power less about being careless at support and more about being a better babysitter, which is a useful skill to have the way PUGs can go. Whenever a nuke goes off or a godmode crashes, the Defender will be there to keep the machine running.

Here's my fix to vigilance, and look, it's not even that hard to explain:

Gradually ramp up buff/debuff/heal values as your teammates suffer damage. Maybe even damage a little bit for those who are more damage oriented and who wouldn't be helped a lot by ramped up buffs (Force Field, for example, unless the player was smart and reapplied shields when everyone was taking damage). Better yet, maybe Defender shields/buffs could be dynamic, increasing their own values to match the bonus rather than requiring re-application... don't think this is possible, though, unless it was a constantly ticking buff that looked at team health similar to SR's low-health resistance. Endurance discount too? Sure, why not...

I think that the Vigilance suggestion that has gone around for a while would be perfect.

1) Change Vigilance so that your health affects the bonus.
2) Make it a scale where full team health gives you a +Damage Bonus.
3) Make lower team health have the +Damage slowly disappear while you recieve either
a. An Endurance discount or...
b. A secondary effect bonus (IE buff and debuff numbers).

This would serve mulitple purposes.
1) Defenders would become better soloers.
2) Those new to Defenders would understand their role a bit more. (IE Defend the team at all costs, once the team is doing well, blast your heart out.)
3) It would make defenders more desirable late game when teams are generally tougher and Controllers pull ahead in the damage department.

They could make Vigilance reward the defender for actively protecting the team, that to me would be ideal. If they scaled the bonus similar to how fury works, the hardest working defenders would get the largest bonuses. I'd say attacks, teammate only buffs, and enemy debuffs would increase Vigilance. A power like Radiant Aura wouldn't. Maybe that would just encourage Defenders to spam their shields more.

I wasn't trying to indicate that all heal powers should not increase Vigilance. Heal Other would be a teammate buff and should increase my concept of vigilance. Heal Aura, Accelerate Metabolism buff the entire team including the Defender. I personally don't think the defender should get an extra bonus for healing themselves.

If primary and secondary powers can contribute to my idea of Vigilance, I think there needs to be some powers that don't, Aim for example.

If the system was more complicated and checked how many players were healed and for how much if they were close to full health, than that would be better in my mind. I don't think a defender should be able to go into a mission solo and spam healing aura until Vigilance is built up then have an endurance discount for the whole mission, if they keep attacking.

There are plenty of Defender powers now that affect the caster. Having my idea of Vigilance, where powers that affect the caster, unless they debuff an enemy, not help build Vigilance is the compromise to have Defender attacks increase Vigilance. Where Vigilance gives what ever type buff is best, be it endurance discounts or sustained mez protection, or whatever.

Right now Healing Aura has a negative effect on Vigilance, the more you heal the less you get from Vigilance, so not including one of 3 heals Emps have available doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice to me. Inertial Reduction, Arctic Fog, Dark Servant, Dispersion Bubble, Sonic Dispersion, Triage Beacon, would all fall into the same category to me.

I think a +Recharge component based on team health would be an interesting touch in any case. The times I've died with a Defender on the team were usually addressed as an issue that their heal/s had not yet recharged.

See, what I used to do with my Regen is, when the team got into trouble and needed the defender to have that bonus to keep us alive....I'd pop MoG.

Boom, instantly one team member is at 10% health that wont change for 2 minutes and as long as we weren't fighting anything that did Psi damage we were in good shape.

I prefer new MoG over old MoG, but I miss being able to pull that trick out when the defender really needs that bonus. It was really the only way a regen scrapper could help a defender out.

My inspiration was how Fury functions, attacking and being attacked generate fury. Most Brute secondaries do not contribute a lot to Fury generation; taunt auras help but most powers do not.

My idea of vigilance would encourage defenders to attack by granting a vigilance bonus for attacking. In this fashion soloing defenders wouldn't be punished for soloing because they could not generate Vigilance.

So if defender secondaries are going to contribute to Vigilance more so than Brute secondaries contribute to Fury, then Defenders should have a few powers from their primaries that do not contribute.

And still having a couple of the total available defender powers not generate Vigilance would still be a buff compared to how the same powers negatively affect the current version of Vigilance.

I'd prefer to see Defenders benefit more for being proactive, rather than reactive, but that's my play style. If my ideas are constructed around my play style then the limitations imposed will also follow suit. What everyone doesn't want is a new version of Vigilance that's so good it will get nerfed later. Vigilance should be useful enough that it helps separate Corruptors and Defenders, but not so great that people will not want to play Corrs. if there is a change and it is over powered, the Devs have already shown a willingness to bring powers back inline. Having a more realistic approach to a change in my experience will result in a higher chance of seeing the change implemented, from real world requests not just changes to my favorite past time.

As it stands now, the Defender archetype is my favorite in the game. I haven't made one I didn't like to solo nor one that didn't make any team more effective. I do think that having an inherent power that only kicks in when the team is failing was a decent concept, but in practice it's not extremely useful. To me, not having a constraint on any changes is like getting cake and ice cream, then asking for pie; typically that wil come back to haunt you later.

Hi. I hope everyone enjoyed the Halloween fun as much as I did. I’ve meant to replies to several of the comments in this thread, but couldn’t seem to get away from Trick or Treat. I also rolled and placed four lowbie Fenders and a Troller in SGs on Pinnacle, my home, so I’ve been busy.

Coming soon to a theater near you: Four Fenders and a Troller.

One of the challenges facing any attempt at Vigilance Reform, of course, is the sheer variety of Defenders. No other Hero AT has as much diversity in Powersets or corresponding play-styles; only Controllers even come close. (Kheldians are a special case.) Blasters blast, Tankers tank, Scrappers attack attack attack kill kill kill where did they go oh look goodie there are some more over there, and Controllers control. Defenders buff, debuff, heal, attack, and even throw in a few controls (usually soft controls), depending on their powers and the situation. No one would really want to play Kin the same way that he plays FF, and neither looks anything like Empathy.

As a result, any sound proposal for Vigilance Reform must be flexible enough to accommodate vast differences in Primary Powersets between Defenders. And so we come to the current suggestions…

The suggestion that the Vigilance bonus should be directly tied to mouse clicks (buffs, debuffs, heals, and possibly attacks) is interesting but probably unworkable. It would give buffers (like FF) an advantage over debuffers (like TA) since you can buff without aggroing social misfits carrying guns and knives. It also encourages spamming heals and buffs, a common cause of fistfight and occasionally poisoning.

Rodion’s suggestion that Vigilance provide status protection is original and very flexible. I’m not sure it’s fair to complain that Vigilance 1.0 “lets Defenders literally fall asleep on the job” since being put to sleep by a super-powered villain is not quite the same as falling asleep, but the idea still has merit. For example, a click-based power in with a +Recharge based on team size would benefit all Defenders and more or less fit the concept of Vigilance and the primary role of the AT.

From a game-design perspective, however, this approach poses an obvious danger. If PCs have too much status protection, then NPC status attacks become pointless. Scrappers and Tankers have near immunity to status attacks, of course, as befits their role. Blasters have limited immunity from Defiance 2.0, which I personally find weird and jarring. (“Our Blaster’s asleep, but don’t worry, he can still aim.” Really?) Kheldians can go Dwarf to gain status protection even when mezzed. Again, that seems like a little too much to me, but what someone on Developer Olympus evidently has a different opinion. Controllers are at least theoretically vulnerable, but they can often protect themselves by mezzing the mezzers. Giving Defenders partial immunity may be a bridge too far.

Then again, that particular ship may have sailed. After all, no self-respecting squishy goes anywhere interesting (read: “dangerous”) without a handful of Break Frees. Still, I would like to think the Devs want us to have to make meaningful choices about which Inspirations to carry into our missions.

For me, though, this version of the power may be a little too narrow for an inherent. It does nothing to help Defenders do their jobs against non-mezzing spawns. Squaring off against Hellions, Skulls, Warriors, Trolls, Outcasts, or even non-Vampyric Council, having this power would be like having no power at all. For that matter, a strong Tanker tends to make this power redundant.

I think Rodion’s idea is worth consideration, but I’m not convinced just yet.

I have to run, but I hope to comments on other suggestions soon, perhaps as early as tomorrow. Thanks all.

I find that with if you build a character reasonably well you don't really have that much endurance issues after SOs.

I think maybe defenders should get +3% global recharge per teammate instead of an endurance discount when people loose health.

That would give defenders on a full team about the same amount of global recharge bonus as VEATs get from taking their quickness clone.

Counterproposal.
This would comprise three parts.

Part 1 (buff from team):

• 1% global Endurance Reduction to Self for each teammate (including self) within 300 ft (Line of Sight)
• 1% global Recharge Reduction to Self for each teammate (including self) within 300 ft (Line of Sight)
• 2.5% global Mez Resist (all types) to Self for each teammate (including self) within 300 ft (Line of Sight)

• 1% global Endurance Reduction to Self for each Foe within 100 ft (max 32)
• 1% global Recharge Reduction to Self for each Foe within 100 ft (max 32)
• 2.5% global Mez Resist (all types) to Self for each Foe within 100 ft (max 32)

• -1 MAG protection vs Mez Effects (all types) to Self for each teammate at zero HP within 300 ft (ignores Line of Sight)

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...