Personal base, why not?

I'll respectfully agree to totally disagree with you on this one in many different ways.

If your telling me the current system was designed so that people would have many versions of one character rather than more options for different characters...I disagree. What you are doing is uncommon and it's a workaround so you can have both the sg and "lair" type of experience. And you play a lot and you've joined other active groups and you find this the most productive use of toon slots and you cheerfully willingly work/wait very long periods of time to get something acceptable and so you can get away with it. Congrats.

If you are telling me it really doesn't hurt (under any circumstances) to split prestige in the fashion you propose... I disagree; especially for casual players and small or less active sgs.

If you are telling me that most comic book characters don't live "somewhere" other than in a group environment like an sg/vg headquarters... I disagree. Affordable personal quarters (the luxury level perhaps tied to vet rewards, inf gained, or some other standard) for everyone!

And especially, If you are telling me that City of Heroes would be a better game overall with what you propose over the capablilty of both personal quarters and an sg affiliation (w/o the mutiple versions deal)... I disagree. You haven't said that (yet) so... why not join the fight to try to make it happen? [edit add: I've already conceded yours is probably the best one can do under the circumstances. So why continue to defend the substandard that works for you but not for many? Let's change the circumstances.].

And I'll explain why I disagree with you on each of them.

Would you consider it a poor decision and a waste of resources to have a dark/regen scrapper, elec/elec blaster, dark/elec defender, invul/dark tank, elec/elec scrapper, and a katana/regen scrapper among your toons on one account? Somehow I don't find myself limited if I choose to play in that selection of power sets. And those are all just one character's variants. So I think either you misunderstood my initial comments about multiple versions of one character, or you're painfully short-sighted in what you can accomplish under the current system if, as I said, you're willing to be a little creative and put in the work to earn the goodies you think the devs should just give you.

As I said before, I looked at what I wanted and made my choices accordingly so I could get it. I used the system that is in place instead of complaining that people should be fighting for a different method that might never come. So which one of us is waiting a long time to get that personal lair you said you wanted?

I currently have about a dozen people with toons in the two SGs listed in my sig below. Due to RL concerns and time zone differences, on a busy night we might have six to eight of them on at one time, and we're all RP'ers, with toons split among those two groups depending on the toon's age and background. So I wouldn't consider my SGs to be massive behemoths by any stretch of the imagination. Yet we've managed to create some very impressive spaces just by being creative with use of space and design along with a lot of teams/TFs being run. Again, we saw what we wanted to have and our players acted accordingly, planning out TFs and mishes to generate Prestige.

If you want to have all the benefits of a fully-fledged SG base (ie. the Batcave), but claim that it's just your secret lair, then yes, you should have to put in the work for it. I really don't think special exceptions need to be made for people who want to play solo or have their own private space separate from their SG's space.

I don't see the level of complexity you're asking for with a Batcave or Fortress of Solitude other than in some isolated cases in comic books. Show me how the homes of Peter Parker, Matt Murdock, John Jones, or Kyle Rayner (all typical examples of working class secret identities at their inception) have even remotely the level of facilities you're asking for by throwing the Batcave or Fortress of Solitude around as the examples of what is needed? This wasn't about whether or not your characters were homeless aside from their SG's bases. With the examples given in the OP for what was wanted, that's far from basic player housing.

I have a very simple philosophy here for anything being added to the game.

I'd rather see them get one thing done, and done right, than see them try to split their resources and do a bunch of things halfway, which is how we got the current base setups to begin with, along with a few dozen other bugs floating around in the game. We're talking about a game staff that obviously means well and can do great work but is tripping over so much code at this point that adding Custom Colors and SSK somehow broke the Manticore Task Force yet again.

Put simply, I'd want actual SG bases to be addressed before we begin a crusade for a new system added for individual player housing, with the new currency system they'll undoubtedly add for paying for that.

Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds))

And so the small community remains small and grossly overlooked until or unless SG bases are addressed (to your satisfaction) before we do anything new/better. Yuck. Thank goodness we have bases at all (my read of your view is they appear not to be "done right" to start with). Geesh, if the dev community agrees with you no wonder we have been stuck in second gear so long!

What I (and others) propose is something that just might appeal to a larger portion of the player base... and maybe... just maybe... increase the appeal and visibility of player created structures (be they bases, quarters or "batcaves"). Thus, the development attention they receive will increase accordingly. I can't, for the life of me, see how having some personal space and capablity while belonging to an sg at the same time (w/o the different versions BS) is such a bad thing. [edit add: BTW, I find it a little "short-sighted" (to borrow an expression I read somewhere) to suggest that a new currency will be undoubtedly required.].

[edit add: Also, bugs happen with new stuff along the way and bugs get fixed. So what? I'm sure the Manticore TF will be doable soon... w/o canning great improvements such as SSK or custom colors in the process... and even if it's not by some small chance, many would say the loss of this TF is a small price to pay for what we got in return by moving forward.]

You've worn me out on this one but you have far from won me over. But thanks for some insight that at least partially explains some of the thinking that has to be behind the multi year (true development) stagnation we've experienced with bases (and why it may continue)! Nothing more from me on this topic.

Things are stuck because bases were designed primarily as player-created PvP maps to be used in conjunction with the Cathedral of Pain Trial. It's been seemingly an uphill battle to get the focus moved to be inclusive for both PvP and PvE. The builders who have been here far longer than you or I have been in CoH have shown the devs what can be done to create architectural wonders that have no PvP use, and I think that's what moved us as far as we've gotten now.

The base editing system is still twitchy and buggy, and has been acknowledged by the devs as requiring an overhaul. They've also acknowledged that they need to find a way to give us the PvE and RP functionality for bases that we've found on our own while still finding some kind of way to provide the PvP functionality they originally intended. Base Raids have been gone for 10 months now though (because of changes to PvP if I recall), and the Cathedral of Pain has been gone for more than three years. I think they want to get it all right (in their eyes at least) before they try to bring either back again.

Everything the devs have added has brought about a new form of currency in case you haven't noticed. Influence was followed by Prestige, then Vanguard Merits, then Reward Merits, and most recently Architect Tickets. While one form of currency would be simpler, the devs have already shown that they like us having to split focus on multiple fronts for any kind of rewards. That's my reason for believing a new form of currency will be tacked on to the game for any kind of player housing.

It's just a fact of how they add things around here, not me being short-sighted, though I understand you would like to find a way to use my own phrasing against me.

Bugs do happen, I'll agree. The fun part is that Manticore TF has been bugged multiple times now with this very same problem of an apparently unrelated change spawning level 40 bosses. As for your thought that "losing a Task Force" that is one of the signature TFs for the game on blue side is acceptable, I believe you'll find yourself clearly in the minority with that statement. And since this is not the only seemingly unrelated bug that tends to creep into the game when big things are added, yes, I think more work needs to be done to make sure additions don't break existing in-game features. I didn't say they couldn't add anything. I just want it to be done so that it doesn't break a dozen other things that people already use. Big difference there between saying "Don't ever do this" and "Don't do this unless it's really going to be done right and doesn't break a dozen other things."

In other words, there's a bigger picture to be viewed here. The wants of people who want individual housing or better base tools have to be balanced with the larger community that want to be able to play story arcs or Task Forces which already exist. Breaking one, even accidentally, as a side effect of providing or fixing the other, is one of the things that needs to be addressed and looked at.

Seriously though, the devs have already told us that bases aren't going to be looked at again until at least some time next year. I'd just like to see that process taken care of before another version of player spaces are added with a different system.

Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds))

Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds))

There has to be some collary of Godwin's Law to cover Monty Python references. Particularly Holy Grail.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

1.) there's no reason you cannot create a base already on your own, as others have pointed out. My wife and I run 3 SGs that are pretty much just us and one or two very casual play friends. We've already got 4 telepads, a supercomputer, two plot upgrades, all tables and nine salvage racks packed with orange salvage, and a bunch of other nifty convenience items. And that's just in one of our three bases. It's not that hard.

2.) Yes, it's a great idea to duplicate an already broken system on a smaller scale to compound the problems we already have rather than fix them. Base builders have been asking for alot of things for a very, very long time. Personal housing as a PART of the base is one of them. But frankly, bases need alot of love and are loooong overdue for it. Your "I can't be bothered to go to the crafting table in my current SG base so I demand developer resources to accomodate ME" plan by no means should take precedence while there's a feature of the game listed ON THE BOX that still doesn't work right.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

Ok forget about me shutting up, I can't resist.

I realize you are being sarcastic here but that's ok, done that myself on occasion.

Yes, it is an idea that bears at least consideration.


First off, why not just build my own base going solo? Short answer: Cause I want to remain in an sg. Longer answer: I would prefer not to have different versions of the same toon (starting over) OR lose my sg status (that I've worked years to help build and keep) such as large base with full ammenities, sg chat, sg privledges, and being forced to be on the outside looking in via the coalition route.

Second, Let's not export a broken system: Short answer: Let's increase base editing exposure. Long answer: You seem to have lived with the limitations of the system. Why not let others in an sg have a crack at it? I find a few base editors being the only ones authorized to do their thing while the rest in a large sg just being prestige providers a form of elitism. Let's throw a bone to some people who have been earning prestige for years... not kick them out of their sg (or force them to "duplicate" themselves, or start over on their own, or some other strange thing). Is going solo and building my own base instead going to lessen the proliferation situation? Will it make the system any better? Why not give others an opportunity who don't want to leave an sg?

You know... I've been in the trenches a couple of years in the base deal myself. I know what basebuilders have been asking for. So I ask you (in my best Dr. Phil voice): How are those base improvements you want working out for us?" What I keep hearing is we are "small community". So yeah, I say let's expound the whole base editing thing in the near term (problems and all). Think it would help stir some action if more people got involved? When the "fix" occurs, we will all enjoy the fix too.

Third, Accommodate ME and the resource issue: Short answer: accommodate more, sooner and easier. Long answer: Like I say, I've been in this game awhile. I know that personal housing has been on the list awhile. So, let's try it.... in the simpliest, less development resources way possible (no new currency, no instant "batcaves", no sg split and no complex mechanics).

Plus if it really bothers you (and others) that someone has their own crafting table (or other items) in their own space... it should be a simple enough thing to "black out" those particular items for sg use only... and still give others a personal housing experience.

As to the ON THE BOX shout... Hang on, let me get Dr. Phil again. "How's that CoP/IoP/raid deal working out for you?" Three years plus... do we continue to wait at the expense of everything else? Pffft.


If you wanna argue the approach I've suggested fine... but I, myself, do not agree with your "it's not worth doing" in the near term arguments.

I think the airspeed of that unladen swallow, might be affected by something. Did the swallow just drop a burden of shrubbery, one that we may in fact deliver to the supergroup? If it did, the speed of the unladen swallow would be slower than that of a fully rested unladen swallow.

In a note to previous posters (as an afterthought I must admit,) I think that personal bases would take quite a bit of coding, and therefor it wouldn't be high on their priority. They might include it at some point, but they would probably wait to see if CO had it first, as they seem to be "borrowing" from that game alot lately. Or so I heard, I have yet to join that bandwagon. It's too much work, and I think I'd rather stick with offline promotions/demotions/invites.

So there's my two cents, buy yourself a double-scoop icecream at thrifty's. XD

Originally Posted by Galactoman Poor Coyote... I've always wondered what he did to piss off Statesman badly enough to earn himself a lifetime of telling newbies to punch sick people...

After attending Hero-Con I can say with some certainty that the devs are more aligned with you above than my "quick and dirty" solution.

Oh well, it was a good "spout off" on my part at least.