Because then it would be ninjitsu. Easier to just port nin over.
Be well, people of CoH.
This is going to sound odd, but there is a certain purity of concept about SR that appeals to me. If it's buffed, I'd prefer they do it in a way that doesn't involve adding heals and ninja flashes and caltrops.
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Balance concerns?|
Originally Posted by Imaheroe
So why not wrap Ranged and AoE into one power and then giving SR a heal? Then I could drop Aid other and Aid self and get different powers
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Super Reflexes implies avoiding damage, not healing it?
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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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lol, true. I was commenting more on the fact nin gets 2 positional defenses in one power.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Balance concerns?
Super Reflexes implies avoiding damage, not healing it? |
Shields does as well.
Different sets made at different times.
I only have limited experience with SR (lvl ~31 DB/SR) and no experience with Ninjitsu, but a couple other differences between the sets:
SR can attain ~30% def with its powers.
Ninjitsu can attain ~21.645% def with its powers (~24.57% with slotted Hide)
SR has scaling resistance.
Ninjitsu has no resistance, but a self heal comparable to Reconstruction.
SR has knockback protection / resistance.
Ninjitsu has fear protection.
SR can hit 95% def resistance.
Ninjitsu has 34.6% def resistance.
SR has...?
Ninjitsu has Caltrops, Smoke Flash, and Blinding Power.
Is one better than the other? Hard to say. Softcapped Ninjitsu is likely stronger over time in conventional fights than SR because of the self heal, but it doesn't have the scaling resists, either. The biggest thing SR has over Ninjitsu is the def resistance, which mean it's extremely unlikely SR will ever suffer cascading failure, something Ninjitsu still may have to worry about from time to time.
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SR has Quickness, which is a mighty nice power. It's something that's overlooked a lot in "why not just get rid of SR and replace it with Ninjitsu?" posts. If Ninjitsu was ported over to Scrappers and was somehow given Quickness instead of Smoke Flash, I'd pick it over SR.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
SR has...?
Ninjitsu has Caltrops, Smoke Flash, and Blinding Power. |
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Exactly what I was going to say. People go to extreme lengths to acquire global recharge in this game, and SR gets a big chunk for only one power pick and no slots.|
Originally Posted by Kepaaaaaaaaaaaaa
SR has Quickness, which is a mighty nice power. It's something that's overlooked a lot in "why not just get rid of SR and replace it with Ninjitsu?" posts.
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You could replace Quickness' recharge with expensive IOs, but you could give SR those same IOs and be even faster. It's got a permanent head start in any race to pile up recharge bonuses.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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This and Quickness are the only reasons I'd ever consider SR over Shields, or if they ported Nin over. Well, other than concept, cuz sometimes you just want a fast, evasive guy who's not a freakin' ninja.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
SR can hit 95% def resistance.
Ninjitsu has 34.6% def resistance. |
Still, I'm having a hard time playing my Elec/SR when I could be combo'ing BU+LR+Shield Charge every 30 sec or so (yes, w/Quickness, I get the BU+LR portion up a bit faster). If they ported over Nin, I'd totally reroll him as an Elec/Nin in a heartbeat (didn't roll him as an Elec/SD in the first place cuz I already have a /SD scrapper).
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anything/sr/weapons will beat anything/nin/anything all day long.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Yeah, this has always been my thought. SR seemed like it was trying to fulfill two concepts, the super speeder or super agile type, like Flash or Spiderman, and the ninja type. Well... like Batman. Sure, Batman is Batman and he can like breathe in space and defeat Superman because he's Crazy Prepared, but it still doesn't quite mesh with me that he is JUST as agile and good at dodging as The Flash. Ninjitsu throws in some gadgets and heals which fits a bit better for me. |
Originally Posted by dave_p
Well, other than concept, cuz sometimes you just want a fast, evasive guy who's not a freakin' ninja.
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I've found that extra 9% defense and the scaling resistances turn the balance a lot more than you think they would. And the devs have a tendency to make that extra 10% Def cost UNGODLY amounts of End. Compare Weave to Combat Jumping, for instance. So SR's three toggles against Nin's two, even though they seem imbalanced for those five powers, actually are okay if you compare the whole set.
Which doesn't mean I wouldn't like the three toggles to be folded into two, it would be really nice for SR to actually get some AoE defense sooner than level 28. I think any chance of that went away when the scaling resistances were added to the passives, instead of making a new power. Cottage Rule and all that.
I've never really seen the scaling resistance of SR actually be that beneficial personally. I haven't even thought to myself that I wish Ninjitsu had scaling resists and even on my SR before I deleted her I never really cared that they had them.
I await the say they port Ninjitsu to Heroes.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Scaling resists have a place if you actively monitor there lvls. Often times ive been in the red and popped a med orange and im at /invuln lvls of resistance. Its still using inspiration and all that. but...
Im starting to think of building a ma/sr with the fighting pool and getting PP from the epic. Instead of aid self and breakin out that damn tricorder.
I dont know. I dont see the desire for /nin scrappers. Defense with a self heal can be had already (dm/sr). We can get caltops. That leaves a confuse power and a placate.
I dont know about you, but anytime I play a scrapper I want as much attention all the time as possible. Throwing out a smoke bomb and hiding doesnt feel very scrapperish.
That leaves a confusion/-tohitt type power. And while confuses are fun, I still dont go ga-ga when i think about confusing the enemies. If we could stack it with another confuse maybe id start to get behind the idea.
But to each their own, with Going Roque comin nothings stopping ya from coming over.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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The DDR alone makes SR better than Nin for me.
As for Shield... I've got only three reasons to pick any other secondary : concept, fun, and wanting to play a specific primary that is locked out with Shield.
The scaling resistance doesn't seem like much, but it has more of an effect than you realize. Again, it's the same with 9% more Defense. SR doesn't look as strong on paper as Ninjitsu, but you're not playing this game on paper. 
And I'm not talking about Ninjitsu exactly as it stands, after all Nin is a Stalker set. But Dark Armor is a Stalker set too, but Dark Scrappers don't put up their Cloak of Darkness and hide until they can get a Critical. They take a more proactive approach, using their stealth to initiate the combat, but then holding aggro if necessary to fulfill their secondary role. That some different powers may be required goes without saying, most Stalker sets have different powers from Scrapper or Brute ones.
And Dark/SR is not Ninjitsu. A gadget using stealthy vigilante does not have tendrils of darkness coming off of his arms draining the life force out of his victims.
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Just a reminder not to rely on that. Castle may one day let the other shoe drop on using HOs for unintended enhancement.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Just a note but shields can also achieve 95% DDR
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
It's a helluva lot easier to softcap SR than it is Ninjitsu as well. SR has passives which add more defense, Ninjitsu lacks them and is forced to make up the difference with IOs or Weave/Combat Jumping/Maneuvers/etc.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
This game may also stop being profitable one day and NCSoft may choose to shut it down. It's in fact damn near guaranteed while we don't know if Castle will ever do something about the HO problem. Should we stop playing now ?
I don't think it's reasonable to not do/use something that is available because of the possibility that it might disappear in the future.
Now, if this is just ethics, as in "I don't want to do that because it's a bug exploit", I completely understand ; but for now, the possibility to use HOs to boost Shield DDR is there and definitely matters.
I agree that SR should have some AoE defense earlier on in the game, but other than that, I like the set as it is.
Oh and can we make Elude a toggle again??? (PLEASE!) (I know that it'll never happen)
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Sure. When they make IH a toggle.
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Originally Posted by Hellsminion_CoH
I agree that SR should have some AoE defense earlier on in the game, but other than that, I like the set as it is.
Oh and can we make Elude a toggle again??? (PLEASE!) (I know that it'll never happen) |
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No thanks. I prefer to be able to attack all the time.
| Oh and can we make Elude a toggle again??? |
Be well, people of CoH.
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If I recall correctly, PP only had +20% regeneration, half the base buff of Health from fitness.|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Im starting to think of building a ma/sr with the fighting pool and getting PP from the epic. Instead of aid self and breakin out that damn tricorder.
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| I dont know. I dont see the desire for /nin scrappers. |
On the subject of advantages and disadvantages between Nin and SR, one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that Nin has substantial resistance to toxic and psionic damage (15% toxic res in the heal, 22.5% psi res in its version of Practiced Brawler). This means Nin and SR have opposite resistance coverage: SR's scaling resistances do not cover toxic or psionic damage.
This also means that while SR has no protection against non-positional psionics, Nin has no special vulnerability to them (its defenses are also positional, but the psi resistance combined with the heal mean it has reasonable coverage there).
Outside of the powersets themselves, Nin can slot resistance and healing IOs without needing power pool powers, so its much easier for Nin to replace fitness with IOs (SR in effect needs fitness to slot the IOs that typically reduce the desirability for fitness). That counterbalances SRs greater benefit from stacking +def IOs (at least until both of them soft-cap).
If Nin were ported to SR, its basically a given that it would lose Hide and gain some other power. If I had to guess, I would guess that Nin would gain quickness or a similar analog. I don't know if Castle would be comfortable letting Nin scrappers keep smoke flash or not. My guess though is that a scrapper Ninjitsu with quickness and a replacement utility power replacing smoke flash would be very popular blue side. I'd certainly roll one.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't think it's reasonable to not do/use something that is available because of the possibility that it might disappear in the future.
Now, if this is just ethics, as in "I don't want to do that because it's a bug exploit", I completely understand ; but for now, the possibility to use HOs to boost Shield DDR is there and definitely matters. |
The funny thing to me about this is that folks always seem to think he would have to fix the HOs giving stuff.
The solution, should Castle ever decide to do so, is to flag the DDR in Active Defense as non-enhanceable. It's a much, much simpler solution.
Not that I care if he ever does or does not. Just wanted to point out that the solution is way simpler than most make it out to be.
I was over in the red side and playing with Ninjitsu (heard it was buffed SR). Woa, ranged and AoE defense in one power!!! Someone was smoking crack on that power.
So why not wrap Ranged and AoE into one power and then giving SR a heal? Then I could drop Aid other and Aid self and get different powers
kk, Bye.