Help a Hero Go Bad
By
CB_GB,
Posted on: 2009-10-04 15:05 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
dom's and corr's, in my experience, can be a little slow starting but more then make up for it after around lv 25 or so while solo. they can solo and team well though. for doms, think troller w/ blaster powers. for corrs, think blasters w/ debuff/buff powers. both are very fun to play and can be "in your face" types as well as sit back and see everything.
Your list of bullet points basically describe how I play my Mind/Fire Dominator.
A dominator must choose whether to spend their time hunting and locking down trouble-causing mobs: ones with particularly strong abilities or just ones that have escaped your team's cascade of AoE controls or debuffs; or you can choose to hasten the demise of the enemies with straight-up damage.
The choice, as always, is yours, but you might find yourself switching styles several times in the same mission, as long-recharge abilities come and go. If AM is on you or Fiery Embrace is ready, destroy everything in sight. If Domination is up, you can lock down the whole group far easier, and give your team a bit of breathing time for one or two easy fights.
Solo, your optimal playstyle is to shut. down. everything. And once they are down, you can destroy them with all haste and not a worry about your health bar.
A good Dominator can keep a team from even *realizing* that there are such things as Sappers- you can Hold AND kill them with just about everything you've got.
As with controllers, you can protect specific teammates with single-target mezzes, as well as ease pressure on the full team with area mezzing.
Many similarities to controllering, but when added together, the sum is far removed from its parts.
Yeah, it sounds to me like you want the controller-style play of Doms. Although, you may enjoy a corr like Ice/Dark. Two good and one mediocre single target holds, a cone Fear, autohit stun, and massive debuffs could possibly suit your playstyle more. Ice/Rad is another option. Less control, but a wider variety of debuffs. Your call. Personally, I'd go Ice/Dark for the playstyle you described.
~WP
Just my opinion, feel free to disregard...
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It depends on the MM. I find Bots/FF to be very hands off and rather dull. My Thugs/Poison was more hands-on - and the attitude I had towards MMs changed when dealing with the two. I couldn't stand masterminds before, while playing the bot/ff for that very reason. "I don't do anything, it's boring." Now - other than bots/ff, which I still do pull out on occasion - I generally enjoy playing them.|
Originally Posted by CB_GB
Are Masterminds really that hands-off in play? Even if not, my main concern about them is that much of the fighting is done through the pets. I love pets, but usually I like them to support me, rather than the other way around. For that reason, in WoW, I preferred a Warlock to a Hunter, and in Diablo my necromancer used a basic clay golem to tank, while he used each level-up to strengthen his own damage and control
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That said - don't forget we do have Going Rogue coming. You like your ill/rad? Hold off and have one switch sides.
I find my Bots/Dark MM is be a fairly hands-on toon as well, I'm rarely just standing around watching my bots decimate a group of foes - but I do make time for it, it's a glorious sight. 
If nothing else, spamming the Dark's heal is always a good move because it debuffs foes.
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No.|
Originally Posted by CB_GB
Are Masterminds really that hands-off in play?
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Actually, it depends on the power sets you pick, but generally: Very no.
Bots/traps is my favorite, and I never have a dull moment. I use caltrops strategically to cluster the enemies, and lightning cages to hold them there. I use all my traps all the time, and I taunt like your grade school bully.
Thugs/poison is a close second, also a busy person. Send in the bruiser, heal him on occasion and debuff the heavy hitters. I didn't take the rez power because if I have to use it, I didn't do my job right.
Zombies/thermal is a little passive, but that character is still low level. Shield up the zombies and let them go to town, healing as needed. I don't even have the grave knight yet, but I still don't see this as being a "passive" set. There's always micromanaging to be done.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
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I had a great time with my Dark/Traps corruptor, but not because it was powerful... it was a fun, interesting playstyle. I had capped Defense, IF nothing went wrong on a moderately long list. (my force field drone didn't explode midfight, I hit people with both my cone AOE's and immobilized/debuffed them, etc.) If something did go wrong, I had active mitigation tools and a lot of them, so it was still quite a tough character... but I had to pay attention every fight while solo. On teams I added a lot, but not necessarily in an obvious fashion, so again I was paying attention and figuring out how to use my leverage.
Now I may very well be completely insane and wrong, because I didn't use the (since-closed) exploits where procs triggered up to ten times as much as they should have on this one power... or because I play Force Field defenders on purpose... or for a variety of other reasons. But it was fun for me, and it may be fun for you.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Trust me, who ever wrote that MM's are passive, was doing it wrong. MM's are some of the most active characters out there. If I were you, I'd roll a thugs/dark. With thugs/dark you have a plethora of things to do, solo and on teams. Consider this: With /dark alone you have
1. Darkest Night, which is very much like radiation infection, so you've got to keep that up on your anchor.
2. Tar Patch, giving you a much needed way to keep your foes inside of your Arsonist's burn patches. They will be everywhere, and their damage is insane. This also reduces the mob's resistance, making you hit harder.
3. An AoE res. Take that in for a second. Now remind yourself that it's an AV killer too.
4. Cone Fear. Ever wanted to stop a group in it's tracks? You just did.
5. The one of the best debuffing pets around (rivaling the power of the lich), Dark servant. It heals, it controls, it does all things dark.
6. To top it all off, and as though this set wasn't OP enough as it is, you also get a damn powerful AoE heal. That means 1 button and all of your minions' health jumps.
Plus thugs are great AoE and single target damage, and it's easy to soft cap them with the pet sets (+20% resist and +10% defense to all because you can slot 2 sets in gang war).
Close your eyes and think of this: You're getting close to an AV in a mission where the packs of mobs are +4 and close together. Your trigger happy corruptor accidently pulls a second group. The corruptor takes the alpha for the group he aggroed, instant death. All of a sudden, BAM, the brute gets one shotted. And as the dominator tries to lock them down ends up getting instagibbed himself. The group turns to you. Instinctively, you open up a black hole in the middle of the pack. Two are slightly out of the Black Hole's range, so you send your bruiser to one and instruct the rest of the pack on the other.
You had thirty seconds from when Black Hole's animation was over, and time is ticking quickly. You target the brute and cast teleport. His body lands at your feet...27 seconds. The corruptor and the dominator are both plopped right next to you. 20 seconds. You hit your pet's defensive/follow macro and tap provoke. 17 seconds left and the two that were left standing are now on you. Taking what little time you have left, you cast howling twilight. Everyone is alive and back at full health. 10 seconds. The 4 of you duck into a door way and out of their line of sight. Through the window you're counting it down. 6...5...4... just then you notice the AV was in that spawn.
Quickly you rush to the doorway and toggle darkest night on him, turning the pack's sights to you. Side stepping into the room, you drop a tar patch right inside that doorway. Everything funnels in nice and slow and your group polishes that challenge off easy until finally the AV makes it's way inside.
You use twilight grasp to soak up any of the damage going around. Your tenebrous tentacles hold her in place as your arsonists pulls out the molotov cocktails and lights her up. You and fluffy have debuffed accuracy so badly at this point that the brute gets hit maybe 8% of the time. As she plumets to 50% health, you notice Howling Twilight just recharged. You sneer smugly and whisper to yourself "Time to die, *****". The AV's regeneration plummets and suddenly damage seems to be sticking better. Within seconds she falls to your feet. The group turns around, looks at you and says "Damn, I'm gonna go roll a MM, brb".
Yeah, that's what Thugs/dark is like. You'll be up to your elbows in things to do. Don't let anyone fool you.
My 2 cents, regarding MMs:
I loved playing my bots/FF MM when I started her... I got her to 50 almost exclusively solo, and that was before Bodyguard or the one-shot upgrades. But when I started teaming with her, playing her went from fun to work. Everyone wants bubbles, and I don't want to disappoint... Lotsa work. Even with a fire-and-forget powerset like bubbles, playing a mastermind decently involves huge multitasking and situational awareness. So I find myself very rarely playing my MM. 
(edit) And also, yeah, whoever said you 'stand around a lot' is playing wrong. Even with Sandolphan's awesome binds, it was a full time job positioning and commanding 6 bots to do their thing. If you want to contiribute, that is.
(It's probably my predisposition to dislike 'maintenance' types of AT's (where there's a strong need to reapply buffs), it was probably a poor choice to begin with for me - rad suits me A LOT better personally. But I just wanted to drop in another opinion.)
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
On the other hand, reading Metacreativity's post, I want that guy on my team. ALWAYS. 
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Thanks buddy |
Originally Posted by galadiman
On the other hand, reading Metacreativity's post, I want that guy on my team. ALWAYS.
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I think you're going to find either a Dom or a Corr to your tastes. Given your full list of "wants", I'd suggest a fire/dark corr. Lots of damage in your primary, and debuffs and soft-controls galore in your secondary.
Those are great options, thanks! Doms and Corruptors seem likely matches, of one power set or another.
This Thread has also turned my interest to MM's, especially with Metacreativity's good examples above.
Even this is appealing, though I realize Galadiman was commenting on MM drawbacks:
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"Multitasking" and "situational awareness" sounds very much like what I enjoy about an ill/rad controller, though I suppose it depends on how much your tactics vary. This is a good distinction:|
Originally Posted by galadiman
My 2 cents, regarding MMs:
I loved playing my bots/FF MM when I started her... But when I started teaming with her, playing her went from fun to work. Everyone wants bubbles, and I don't want to disappoint... Lotsa work. Even with a fire-and-forget powerset like bubbles, playing a mastermind decently involves huge multitasking and situational awareness. |
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| (It's probably my predisposition to dislike 'maintenance' types of AT's (where there's a strong need to reapply buffs), it was probably a poor choice to begin with for me - rad suits me A LOT better personally. |
Everyone has a different play style. Some want to do massive damage above all. Some love melee. Some like being able to shrug off a dozen enemies at once.
For me, a non-melee AT rewarded by 'situational awareness" and a willingness to vary tactics is it. Sounds like there are several ways to do that Redside.
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In my experience playing a MM from 1 to 50, I hardly ever stand around. I play Bots/ Traps mind you, and it may depend on the Pri/Sec combo that you choose.|
Originally Posted by CB_GB
Are Masterminds really that hands-off in play? Even if not, my main concern about them is that much of the fighting is done through the pets. I love pets, but usually I like them to support me, rather than the other way around. For that reason, in WoW, I preferred a Warlock to a Hunter, and in Diablo my necromancer used a basic clay golem to tank, while he used each level-up to strengthen his own damage and control.
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But from my experience, at the very least I'm throwing Web Grenades or using Vet Reward attacks to soften enemies.
However, I'm usually leading the charge. My MM has almost no attacks, but I run in with BG mode enabled and start planting Poison Traps and Caltrops. When the enemy starts attacking me my Bots in BG mode not only soak damage for me, they retaliate automatically. And when I'm not placing traps, I'm tossing Insps, placing Triage Beacons, tossing grenades, using Nanomachines, etc.
Some MMs prefer to lead from the rear, but if you want to lead from the front, there's certainly opportunity for that. The trickiest part of playing a MM, IMHO, are the keybinds, but Sandalphan's old keybind guide will help you more than I on that front, if you so choose to play a MM.
(More about MM keybinds in the MM guides here)
Robot/Dark MasterMind.
Being all ranged, the bots require very little micromanaging compared to some other MM sets. And /Dark has several control options baked in on top of the debuffs.
And then there is the part about you being a living god in PvE. . . .
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See, this all just says Dominator to me.
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Originally Posted by CB_GB
Advice for a newcomer in choosing a Redside AT?
Here's what I'm after:
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I think what the OP should ask next is. "on my ill/rad, do I ever feel like I wanna take a more after part in controlling my summons,".
If you do, then something like a thugs/dark or maybe a nin/thermal, would be more to your liking.
If you dont, then you should roll something like an earth/fire or grav/thorn dom.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Advice for a newcomer in choosing a Redside AT?
I'll play around with them, but I tend not to have alt-itis. I'm wildly happy with my Ill/Rad Controller blueside, and I'd like some of the same strengths as a Villain. Here's what I'm after:
- can solo or team well
- varies tactics to adapt to each fight
- benefits from seeing 'the whole picture' in a big team fight
- makes active choices in battle
About these last two, I mean that it helps to be aware of my teammates are doing. If a Defender has a mob on him, that's my next Blind target. If the Blaster is rapidly beating down a particular enemy, that's not the one I want to use to center my debuff. When my teammates are near full-health, I don't want to spam heals and draw unneeded aggro.Some players apparently see Controllers as 'static' contributers, as in this Thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=113991
Since I usually prefer non-melee classes. The ones with most first-glance appeal are Masterminds. Dominators, and Corruptors.
Are Masterminds really that hands-off in play? Even if not, my main concern about them is that much of the fighting is done through the pets. I love pets, but usually I like them to support me, rather than the other way around. For that reason, in WoW, I preferred a Warlock to a Hunter, and in Diablo my necromancer used a basic clay golem to tank, while he used each level-up to strengthen his own damage and control.
Anything I should know about Dominators and Corruptors in light of the above preferences?