Suggestion: block people from finishing someone else's mission without them.
By
BBQ_Pork,
Posted on: 2009-09-20 13:20 in Suggestions and Ideas
Umm... What?
Imagine you've got the Frostfire mission, so your team is just working their jolly butts away towards Mr. Freezy. They finally get there, but YOU die, so then what happens to them inside? Do they kill him, but just have to wait for you to step inside? No, that's moronic.
Does Frostfire become invulnerable until you're back in? Oh, goody good, you've just caused a teamwipe.
Is the team booted from the instance until YOU get back? Well, no, that just wouldn't make sense.
In short: This idea is rubbish.
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Other than a hospital trip, (with no one able to hand you the inspires to combine into an awaken) how many reasons do you have for leaving the mission in progress?|
Originally Posted by GhoulSlayer
This is something that has been bothering me for awhile and it just happened to me again. I think that it's extremely rude when I'm on a team and for one reason or another I end up outside of the mission but before I can get back in the team finishes my mission without me. I think that there should be a clicky under options so that you can disallow/allow this to happen.
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I think that this idea needs a lot of work, because Sigium brings up very good points. Perhaps if you've clicked "do not complete", the mission finishes normally, with rewards, for those actually doing the work, but you get to keep the mission to re-complete yourself? Sounds like quite a potentially exploitable situation.
If you've clicked "do not complete" and the team finishes the mission, they get a "mission complete", but without the normal rewards? Sounds like getting cheated for the benefit of someone who is pretty much AFK.
I'm sorry, but I cannot support this idea in it's current state. It needs a lot more work to be refined into something better, and more fair towards the team.
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Ok, in your scenario my idea does sound like the wrong way to go I will admit that, but that's not what happened. I was having technical problems and had to relog before going back to the mission. They had a full 5 to 10 minutes inside my mission without me and no one was anywhere near a boss when I left. This was just pure apathy. I will agree that certain difficulties need to be ironed out before and if such a thing is implemented but it isn't rubbish.|
Originally Posted by Sigium
Umm... What?
Imagine you've got the Frostfire mission, so your team is just working their jolly butts away towards Mr. Freezy. They finally get there, but YOU die, so then what happens to them inside? Do they kill him, but just have to wait for you to step inside? No, that's moronic. Does Frostfire become invulnerable until you're back in? Oh, goody good, you've just caused a teamwipe. Is the team booted from the instance until YOU get back? Well, no, that just wouldn't make sense. In short: This idea is rubbish. |
edit: Thanks BBQ Pork you must have been typing at the same time I was and you made basically the same points that I was making.
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But it DOESN'T make sense! Sure, you were booted due to technical difficulties, but between Pork and myself, here are the potential outcomes of ANYTHING like you're suggesting:|
Originally Posted by GhoulSlayer
Ok, in your scenario my idea does sound like the wrong way to go I will admit that, but that's not what happened. I was having technical problems and had to relog before going back to the mission. They had a full 5 to 10 minutes inside my mission without me and no one was anywhere near a boss when I left. This was just purely apathetic. I will agree that certain difficulties need to be ironed out before and if such a thing is implemented but it isn't rubbish.
edit: Thanks BBQ Pork you must have been typing at the same I was and you made basically the same points that I was going to make. |
1. You save the mission for yourself while the others are now completing a sort of 'mirror' -- Exploit.
2. The team gets no end-of-mission bonus experience because you were not there. -- BS.
3. The team's objectives are made impossible to finish because you're not around -- BS.
4. The team doesn't receive bonus exp until YOU get your stuff together -- BS.
5. The team is booted from the instance -- BS.
So, there you have it. There's no way this idea can make it without it causing massive problems for some people.
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So, say you have a badge mission since you brought him up we'll use Frostfire as an example. The team is halfway through the mission when suddenly a transformer blows, your power goes out, and you are unable to log back in for hours. The team goes on to finish your mission they get the badge and you don't. That doesn't seem fair either does it? There has to be some common ground that we can meet on. Maybe there is a way to implement this in some form and maybe there isn't. I don't know. One thing I do know is that in the case that I was involved in if those guys had just used some common courtesy we wouldn't be discussing this now.
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Originally Posted by Sigium
But it DOESN'T make sense! Sure, you were booted due to technical difficulties, but between Pork and myself, here are the potential outcomes of ANYTHING like you're suggesting:
1. You save the mission for yourself while the others are now completing a sort of 'mirror' -- Exploit. 2. The team gets no end-of-mission bonus experience because you were not there. -- BS. 3. The team's objectives are made impossible to finish because you're not around -- BS. 4. The team doesn't receive bonus exp until YOU get your stuff together -- BS. 5. The team is booted from the instance -- BS. So, there you have it. There's no way this idea can make it without it causing massive problems for some people. |
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Originally Posted by GhoulSlayer
So, say you have a badge mission since you brought him up we'll use Frostfire as an example. The team is halfway through the mission when suddenly a transformer blows, your power goes out, and you are unable to log back in for hours. The team goes on to finish your mission they get the badge and you don't. That doesn't seem fair either does it? There has to be some common ground that we can meet on. Maybe there is a way to implement this in some form and maybe there isn't. I don't know. One thing I do know is that in the case that I was involved in if those guys had just used some common courtesy we wouldn't be discussing this now.
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Except that the mission owner ALWAYS gets the badge.
A trick somepoeple used pre-flashback. Create a character get the fortune teller mission. Invite a fried and have the step in the mission. Log off, log on highbie who missed the badge. Run mission
Both the highbie and the logged off misson owner (plus the friend(s)) get the badge.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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And if no one noticed it was your mission? If no one even noticed you were gone? Was this some sort of important or significant mission? This belittling of your team seems much ado about nothing...
| One thing I do know is that in the case that I was involved in if those guys had just used some common courtesy we wouldn't be discussing this now. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I was completely unaware of this. You mean I could have been exploiting this for the last 5 years??? |
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Except that the mission owner ALWAYS gets the badge.
A trick somepoeple used pre-flashback. Create a character get the fortune teller mission. Invite a fried and have the step in the mission. Log off, log on highbie who missed the badge. Run mission Both the highbie and the logged off misson owner (plus the friend(s)) get the badge. |
Actually, I've always felt that missions shouldn't count as complete if you're offline at the time of its completion. At the very least, I'd like to see that as an option. One of the BIGGEST things that worry me is a team leader picking a mission I want to save. Afterwards, there is not a damn thing I can do about it, because even if I log off, the team can still finish the missions without me. Consider it like Collaborative missions. Next time you log in, you get the message "Your mission was complete without you. Would you like to accept that?"
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You said that you were having hardware/connection issues, which in my opinion was a totally valid reason for disappearing from the team.|
Originally Posted by GhoulSlayer
So, say you have a badge mission since you brought him up we'll use Frostfire as an example. The team is halfway through the mission when suddenly a transformer blows, your power goes out, and you are unable to log back in for hours. The team goes on to finish your mission they get the badge and you don't. That doesn't seem fair either does it? There has to be some common ground that we can meet on. Maybe there is a way to implement this in some form and maybe there isn't. I don't know. One thing I do know is that in the case that I was involved in if those guys had just used some common courtesy we wouldn't be discussing this now.
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But look at it from the team's perspective.
They start a mission, get partway through it and then one teammate vanishes. Likely, only the team leader who set the mission even knew whose mission it was. But how long do you stop the entire team from playing when a teammate disappears? A minute? 5 Minutes? Thirty?
Did they know you were having connection issues before you disappeared?
I've heard stories here about folks having bad PuGs and just forcing a DC rather than bow out politely, so it's possible that they thought you bailed on them to get them to do your mission for them without being there.
I think that you are attributing far worse motives on them than they actually had, and I don't think that you were cheated out of anything.
If it were a badge mission, then hopefully you got the badge, and if you didn't, you can always wait until L25+ and use Ouroboros to re-run it.
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But then what happens if you click 'No'? Do the others get no XP/Rewards, or do you just keep the mission for yourself.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Actually, I've always felt that missions shouldn't count as complete if you're offline at the time of its completion. At the very least, I'd like to see that as an option. One of the BIGGEST things that worry me is a team leader picking a mission I want to save. Afterwards, there is not a damn thing I can do about it, because even if I log off, the team can still finish the missions without me. Consider it like Collaborative missions. Next time you log in, you get the message "Your mission was complete without you. Would you like to accept that?"
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If it's the latter and, I know with the latest changes in I16 it's not so strong a rule, it can still be considered an exploit: Create a team, have them run the Shaper Cult mission, log out as soon as everyone's in, everyone completes/gets the bonus, log back in and select 'No', and repeat.
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I was the team leader. Yes, they knew it was my mission. Yes, they knew I was gone. Etc. They even invited me back to the team and before I could get back to the mission they finished it. They were just plain old rude. There's no other way around it.|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
You said that you were having hardware/connection issues, which in my opinion was a totally valid reason for disappearing from the team.
But look at it from the team's perspective. They start a mission, get partway through it and then one teammate vanishes. Likely, only the team leader who set the mission even knew whose mission it was. But how long do you stop the entire team from playing when a teammate disappears? A minute? 5 Minutes? Thirty? Did they know you were having connection issues before you disappeared? I've heard stories here about folks having bad PuGs and just forcing a DC rather than bow out politely, so it's possible that they thought you bailed on them to get them to do your mission for them without being there. I think that you are attributing far worse motives on them than they actually had, and I don't think that you were cheated out of anything. If it were a badge mission, then hopefully you got the badge, and if you didn't, you can always wait until L25+ and use Ouroboros to re-run it. |
I guess this whole thing is more about etiquette than what I was asking for in my original post.
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Well, considering the only thing that has over simply not finishing the mission is the end-of-mission bonus, I don't feel it's that big of a problem. Or are you worried of the repeat of the Barakuda farms?|
Originally Posted by Sigium
But then what happens if you click 'No'? Do the others get no XP/Rewards, or do you just keep the mission for yourself.
If it's the latter and, I know with the latest changes in I16 it's not so strong a rule, it can still be considered an exploit: Create a team, have them run the Shaper Cult mission, log out as soon as everyone's in, everyone completes/gets the bonus, log back in and select 'No', and repeat. |
The main idea was that the team finish your mission and get their rewards irrespective of whether you're on or not, but if you're not on, you have the option to reject your mission completion bonus and not have the mission complete. I just hate the idea that someone can pick and complete one of my missions against my will.
If it's a problem, then put it on a timer. If a team finishes the mission without you, then you can either accept completion, or you can reject, but can't retry the mission until an hour has passed until it was first completed. So, say a team completes your mission at 5 PM. If you log in at 5:05 and reject completion, you won't be able to try it again until 6 PM, but if you go have lunch and dinner and come back at 8 PM and THEN refuse completion, then you can retry it immediately. Sort of like TF repetition timers.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I guess this whole thing is more about etiquette than what I was asking for in my original post.[/QUOTE]
I have ran into this several times before. If I am running somones else mission and they lose connection I will not finish the mission. It seems rude to complete somone elses mission when they are not there.
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A lot of people do a lot of rude things in this game, as they do in any MMO, as they do in life.|
Originally Posted by GhoulSlayer
I was the team leader. Yes, they knew it was my mission. Yes, they knew I was gone. Etc. They even invited me back to the team and before I could get back to the mission they finished it. They were just plain old rude. There's no other way around it.
I guess this whole thing is more about etiquette than what I was asking for in my original post. |
As for ST's variation? Yes, I could think of the Barracuda farm, I'll confess... And your idea wouldn't be too horrible, but I just find it useless for myself.
So /neutral. It's not a bad idea, but it's low on the priority base.
Only time I see this as a problem is the following.
level 50 farmer has BM mission.
Charging lowbies an arm and a leg to PL.
50 dc's in mission after killing BM.
Team or 1 player decides to finish mission by clicking glowies.
>Poof< Farm gone.
The reason I say its a farmer who charges because if you were pl your friends, I would think you wouldnt charge them. But a stranger who wants 3-10 mill upfront then leaves mission. I can see people getting mad and ruining the farm.
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Most missions can be done as many times as desired via Ouroboros though. With the exception of farms that were later modified to add timers (Dreck, etc.) where the player has an 'old' copy of that mission. And if he's still re-running that old of a farm, I have little sympathy for losing it. He's had more than enough time to exploit the heck out of it and he can afford to let it go for another.|
Originally Posted by GPBunny
Only time I see this as a problem is the following.
level 50 farmer has BM mission. Charging lowbies an arm and a leg to PL. 50 dc's in mission after killing BM. Team or 1 player decides to finish mission by clicking glowies. >Poof< Farm gone. The reason I say its a farmer who charges because if you were pl your friends, I would think you wouldnt charge them. But a stranger who wants 3-10 mill upfront then leaves mission. I can see people getting mad and ruining the farm. |
Edit: I'm not saying that's what the OP was doing though. I have no idea which mission he was so attached to or what he really lost that he can't get.
This is something that has been bothering me for awhile and it just happened to me again. I think that it's extremely rude when I'm on a team and for one reason or another I end up outside of the mission but before I can get back in the team finishes my mission without me. I think that there should be a clicky under options so that you can disallow/allow this to happen.