Replace debt reduction property on IOs
By
BBQ_Pork,
Posted on: 2009-09-15 08:21 in Suggestions and Ideas
I agree.
Debt Reduction set bonuses seem to only be a "filler" product, and not of any measurable value.
In fact, off-hand, I can't think of any other set bonuses which are Non-Combat, although I'm sure there are some.
They are about as non-combat as a "-1.25% to Costume Alteration Fees". *smirk*
/signed
There has to be something else that could be assigned to them.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Y'know, as someone who tends to find myself using "useless" powers (snipes, Dimension Shift, etc.) even *I* find debt reduction pretty useless.
The problem is, *someone* will scream bloody murder if it's taken out (even if, given how miniscule debt is, it's usually gone within the next spawn or two.) I'd just say "Add something else *useful* alongside it in that slot."
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That solution works just fine for me. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The problem is, *someone* will scream bloody murder if it's taken out (even if, given how miniscule debt is, it's usually gone within the next spawn or two.) I'd just say "Add something else *useful* alongside it in that slot." |
Yeah, Debt Reduction is right up there with things like -Immobilize Duration set bonuses for me. 100% useless, I skip right over it when deciding how worth my money a set is.
Also, 0.75% Damage Buff falls into this category. I mean, really? 0.75% Damage?
Are you kidding?!? A 0.75% damage bonus means that for every thousand points of damage I do, I do an extra seven and a half!
<cough>
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Yeah but someone will always complain about any change. They will get over it. I suggest replacing it with resistance bonuses. We don't have enough of those.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Y'know, as someone who tends to find myself using "useless" powers (snipes, Dimension Shift, etc.) even *I* find debt reduction pretty useless.
The problem is, *someone* will scream bloody murder if it's taken out (even if, given how miniscule debt is, it's usually gone within the next spawn or two.) I'd just say "Add something else *useful* alongside it in that slot." |
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This.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Yeah but someone will always complain about any change. They will get over it. I suggest replacing it with resistance bonuses. We don't have enough of those.
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The problem with making resistance bonuses more widely available on sets is that someone could abuse them to make a character literally somewhat more powerful.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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lol
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
The problem with making resistance bonuses more widely available on sets is that someone could abuse them to make a character literally somewhat more powerful.
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If all of your power in the game relies upon Set Bonuses, to the point it's considered 'abuse', I'd like to know what character you're creating.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
The problem with making resistance bonuses more widely available on sets is that someone could abuse them to make a character literally somewhat more powerful.
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As for people complaining; let them, and replace it regardless. If you were to take out every NPC with names that went from Br - Ca, you'd still have an issue with people whining over nothing.
By the way, get rid of NPCS with names from Al - Ba.
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Sigium I think you took it the wrong way, if you notice the wording |
Originally Posted by Sigium
If all of your power in the game relies upon Set Bonuses, to the point it's considered 'abuse', I'd like to know what character you're creating.
As for people complaining; let them, and replace it regardless. If you were to take out every NPC with names that went from Br - Ca, you'd still have an issue with people whining over nothing. By the way, get rid of NPCS with names from Al - Ba. |
"somewhat more powerful"
it's mocking the fact we don't have these bonuses because every bonus makes you
"somewhat more powerful"
At least thats how I took it and why I lold
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You mentioned 'abused'... As in 'exploited', or 'not to be done in such a way', when in fact, it's perfectly fine.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Sigium I think you took it the wrong way, if you notice the wording
"somewhat more powerful" it's mocking the fact we don't have these bonuses because every bonus makes you "somewhat more powerful" At least thats how I took it and why I lold |
Of all of the readily-available sets we've got that are already VERY widely available, I wouldn't worry about moving around the 'Debt Reduction'.
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Well, if you just have a .75% damage bonus, then.. well, that sucks.. But see, I come from the school of thought that says "you can never have too much damage", so the .75% is just something that would add in to the ever growing pool of +damage.|
Originally Posted by Xyzyx
Are you kidding?!? A 0.75% damage bonus means that for every thousand points of damage I do, I do an extra seven and a half!
<cough> |
.75% is usually only on the very low level and low-grade sets anyways.
As for the debt reduction.. I'd be fine with it going, and am fine with it staying. I don't feel that every attribute of an IO has to have use to everyone.
Look at +lethal res? Most tanks don't really need that. -mez duration? Yeah, sure. -KB? Once again, most tanks don't need it, nor does anyone with Acrobatics. +heal? Lesse certain tanks, brutes, scrappers and stalkers will get limited use of this. "Most" MMs, Trollers, Defenders and corruptors will get use of this, however many won't, and of these there are really only about 3 sets (Emp, Pain and Therm) that really get REAL use of it.
If all IOs properties were useful to everyone we would get:
+damage
+recharge
+regen
+rec
+end
+psi res
in every single set. Boring. >.>
I agree that not every set bonus needs to be useful to every character. But IMO the debt reduction at this point in the game is about as useless a set bonus as there can be. Debt has become almost meaningless with all the changes so I don't see much of a point in keeping the set bonuses that deal with it.
Plus if those bonuses were removed it would provide an excellent chance to make up for what I think is a lack of resist bonuses.
"The problem with making resistance bonuses more widely available on sets is that someone could abuse them to make a character literally somewhat more powerful."
Sorry for the confusion, guys. I was just trying to be humorous in pointing out that is one replaced all the debt reduction percentages with equivalent resistance bonuses, you still couldn't pile up enough resistance to be more than "somewhat" more powerful.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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This.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Yeah but someone will always complain about any change. They will get over it. I suggest replacing it with resistance bonuses. We don't have enough of those.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I disagree. Solely because EvilGeko posted it, and I am obligated under contract to do so. I therefore suggest they have range increases and intangibility increases amended to the set in the same location. Nothing gives an intangibility bonus, as far as I recall.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
This.
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You forgot codicil #34 of the contract. Since I was simply agreeing to someone else, you are not required to disagree with me in total. Only to identify something for us to argue about. So you should have said, something like make it Fire/Cold/Energy bonuses or something like that and I could have disagreed and said it should be Smashing/Lethal/Toxic. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I disagree. Solely because EvilGeko posted it, and I am obligated under contract to do so. I therefore suggest they have range increases and intangibility increases amended to the set in the same location. Nothing gives an intangibility bonus, as far as I recall.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Debt is almost a negligible hazard in COH/V.
Some IOs give a small percentage reduction in debt (list here). The text calls it debt protection, but it really just reduces the amount of debt, and very slightly at that. It's never more than 2.5 %, and it's hard to accumulate much debt reduction. Some sets that provide debt reduction are generally undesirable in their other properties as well, making them "loser" sets.
Since IOs were introduced, patrol exp has further reduced the functionality of debt. Now in Issue 16 leveling speed in the low-to-middle level ranges is again being sped up, further trivializing debt (and further trivializing investment in debt reduction IOs). You could easily spend many times more influence buying debt reduction set bonuses than you will ever have in exp debt (assuming influence and exp are vaguely equivalent; I'm aware they'/re apples and oranges).
I've never met anyone who intentionally slotted for debt reduction. Instead, and bonuses someone has are the byproduct of other slotting goals; mere accidents that, frankly, never get noticed. I've never said, nor heard anyone else say, "Thank goodness I slotted that 2% debt reduction set just before this TF!" It just seems like sort of wasted text and a wasted opportunity to make things more interesting. Even if it were a staggeringly larger percentage, like say 10% per set, I still don't know if anyone would slot it -- I hardly would.
Lastly, debt reduction is completely meaningless on level 50 characters, of course.
It seems to me that replacing debt reduction property entirely with something else that might be more desirable would be beneficial to a lot of borderline sets. (The exceptions are Eradication and Aegis, already great sets, and maybe Unspeakable Terror and Detonation, which are sort of second- or third-rate sets).
What to replace the debt reduction property with? I don't know. Something that exists already would be fine, or something new, as long as it's not overpowering.
If sets like Ruin or Induced Coma or Debilitative Action got some neat, new, but small property, what harm could it do?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog