Is this . . . ebil?


Black_Mute

 

Posted

No, this isn't a screenshot of how much Inf I have.

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that I am working on the Sharpshooter badge and have just created 5 level 50 Recharge IO's.

Let's say I go to sell them on the Market and notice that there are 9 bidding and 5 others for sale.

Now the Law of Supply and Demand says that if the Demand (ie number bidding) is higher than the supply (ie number for sale) then I should be able to charge a higher than normal price.

But if I put my 5 Enhancements on the market, then the supply will be now be higher than the demand, so I risk having to sell at a lower than premium price.

(Now here's where I might be getting ebil.) However, if I make 5 other bids - at say 1 Inf, so there's no chance of me actually buying anything - I can artificially increase the apparent demand, therefore hoping that I can charge a premium price. (On the assumption that buyers will see that Demand is higher than Supply and will therefore - hopefully - be more willing to pay a higher price.)

Is this ebil?

Illegal?

Immoral?

Against the game rules?


>.>


<.<


Have you ever done it?






No, I have never done this. Stick a needle in my eye and all that. But what I have done is, if I had a lot of a particular thing to sell, and there were just a few for sale and only a few more bidding, is put one thing at a time on the market, then just watch until it sold, then add another, watch until it sold......etc.


"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper View Post
No, this isn't a screenshot of how much Inf I have.

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that I am working on the Sharpshooter badge and have just created 5 level 50 Recharge IO's.

Let's say I go to sell them on the Market and notice that there are 9 bidding and 5 others for sale.

Now the Law of Supply and Demand says that if the Demand (ie number bidding) is higher than the supply (ie number for sale) then I should be able to charge a higher than normal price.

But if I put my 5 Enhancements on the market, then the supply will be now be higher than the demand, so I risk having to sell at a lower than premium price.

(Now here's where I might be getting ebil.) However, if I make 5 other bids - at say 1 Inf, so there's no chance of me actually buying anything - I can artificially increase the apparent demand, therefore hoping that I can charge a premium price. (On the assumption that buyers will see that Demand is higher than Supply and will therefore - hopefully - be more willing to pay a higher price.)

Is this ebil?

Illegal?

Immoral?

Against the game rules?


>.>


<.<


Have you ever done it?






(No, I have never done this. Stick a needle in my eye and all that. But what I have done is, if I had a lot of a particular thing to sell, is put one thing at a time on the market, then just watch until it sold, then add another, watch until it sold......etc.)
Most of the time in my opinion, and espically for lvl 50 rechargers, is that any value for 'salting' the numbers wanting, isnt worth what you could be making using that transaction slot for something else.

More often going to happen for recipes than crafted generic IOs.

It is slightly ebil, not against the rules, totally not illegal, and the morality is up for you to decide yourself.


I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

 

Posted

I liken it to wondering if it's immoral to kill off a character in a story you've written. It's just a little inconsequential.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by bracass View Post
Post Deleted by Moderator_08

I'll quote you alright. This is related to some other thread elsewhere, right? To the OP: Do what you want with your bids--I don't imagine it'll have much effect on things. Honestly, I don't think more than 25% of the playerbase even understands what the "last five sales" and supply/demand info really means.


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

Posted

Wow. I didn't know CounterStrike Junkies had the patience for marketeering.

To the OP: I'm honestly not sure it would have that much effect on pricing. It's not like most people bother looking at supply and demand of what they want. Or the last 5, for that matter.


 

Posted

Yeah, kinda. Specifically, I can't seem to find it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Does anyone else find the new forums' "ignore" feature much less convenient than the old one?
Yes, but still people are managing to make their way onto mine.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly View Post
Yeah, kinda. Specifically, I can't seem to find it.
Click on the persons name you want to ignore. Choose "View Public Profile"
Click on the Down Arrow beside "User Lists"
Choose "Ignore User"
Click Yes on the Confirmation page

They still didn't implement it properly though, you still see a Row with "You are ignoring this user" for each of their posts rather than them being totally erased from the thread. Plus, despite Quotes having a User Name associated with them now you can still see quotes from ignorees (woo, new word)

At the OP, personally I go more on the Last Sold prices over the actual Supply and Demand, mostly because it's fairly likely that a lot of the Bidding bids are probably lowball ones anyway. So you won't really be achieving that much from adding more lowball bids in really.


 

Posted

I do just the opposite of the original poster to get recipes and enhancements for cheap. If I find a good recipe that has 0-10 bidding at one of the levels, I'll inflate the bids so people DON'T bid on it because there's so many bids and a seller may be more likely to sell it for 10 million instead of 100 million thinking they'll get a good price because so many are bidding.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper View Post
(Now here's where I might be getting ebil.) However, if I make 5 other bids - at say 1 Inf, so there's no chance of me actually buying anything - I can artificially increase the apparent demand, therefore hoping that I can charge a premium price. (On the assumption that buyers will see that Demand is higher than Supply and will therefore - hopefully - be more willing to pay a higher price.)

Is this ebil?

Illegal?

Immoral?

Against the game rules?


>.>


<.<


Have you ever done it?






No, I have never done this. Stick a needle in my eye and all that. But what I have done is, if I had a lot of a particular thing to sell, and there were just a few for sale and only a few more bidding, is put one thing at a time on the market, then just watch until it sold, then add another, watch until it sold......etc.
Ebil? Only slightly, as you're hoping the numbers manipulate one's thoughts.

Illegal? I lol'd.

Immoral? I don't think so, but I'm not a patron saint.

Against the rules? Hardly. Do it if it feels fun.

But, I'm with someone else who mentioned the slot used to place these false bids could likely be better used actually making monies.

If you're looking to be ebil, this is what you need to be doing; keeping the casual player poor.


"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."

 

Posted

With standard IO's, the only time I really worry about supply vs demand as a part of the equasion, is when they are way out of sync ( and way out of sync is 75+ for sale and 0 demand). The demand for standard IO's fluctuates and is a very much a "buy it Nao!" product. Having 10 up for sale, and 5 bid, isn't worth paying attention to. Boosting bids has little to no impact on their sale.

So, the word I'd use, isn't Illegal or immoral or any thing like that. The word I'd use is "pointless"


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly View Post
Wow. I didn't know CounterStrike Junkies had the patience for marketeering.
As a former CS junkie (beta 2 through retail release, ran a server, had a community, made maps, etc etc), I can say YES WE DO.


Or some of us, anyway. =P


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

I think it depends on the article in question and how you do it.

For example, I have too many AH slots spread among too many characters to manage. I might do something like grab a non-market-using alt and place 150 bids on LotG +Recharge at 50.

Why? Well, it's expensive enough for people to speculate on it. On any given day it can cost anywhere from 150m-250m. Artificially inflating demand increases the apparent value to a speculator, so if I'm selling it may push my sale price closer to 250m.

For most stuff it's probably pointless - people who buy generic IOs and salvage aren't necessarily market-savvy enough to understand it. Probably only worth doing if you expect a lot of speculation and are planning to sell.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Does anyone else find the new forums' "ignore"
feature much less convenient than the old one?
Yes, and in fact, I find it almost as irritating as whichever "twit-du-jour"
I'm trying to ignore...

It really should be 1-click part of the left side poster name options
instead of (in addition to) the section in your profile area.

To OP.

"Painting the tape" is what you're describing.

AFAIK - there are no rules against it (this would be a Market PvP tactic),
but I'd agree with others in that:

A> It won't fool (even slightly) most of the regulars in here

B> It's unnecessary to resort to it to fool the newbs - they're already lost.

C> Single digits really don't have a big bearing on actual Supply/Demand
unless there's a wide disparity between them... ie. 400 bids, 2 for sale -
seems meaningful... 0 bids / 1400 for sale - likewise... 9 bids / 5 for sale?
Not so much.

D> Market morality in a video game is laughable. Heck, even
in the real world we have the widely accepted phrase "Caveat Emptor"
(Buyer Beware).



Regards,
4


I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourSpeed View Post
To OP.

"Painting the tape" is what you're describing.
please correct me if I am wrong, but that term is more of an investment term used to describe artificially increasing trade volume; not showing more demand for a commodity.

as to the rest of your post I agree if you are going to artificially increase demand do it with a couple hundred bids not 5 anything less won't get noticed by anyone.

To the OP:
as far as common IOs I convert all my common salvage into common IOs ( you can store 100 IOs in a table or 30 common salvage in a rack) and the sell them off for ~600K each some sell in minutes some in days but they always sell with a ~350K profit and it gives my alts something to do


Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.

 

Posted

Quote:
please correct me if I am wrong, but that term is more of an investment
term used to describe artificially increasing trade volume; not showing more
demand for a commodity.
Actually, as I understand it, it is doing 5 "artificial sales" to make the history
look like some arbitrary pricing is "normal" for that item.

In re-reading his post (reading comprehension FTW - DOH! ) that's
not what he did (My Bad) - he was simply playing with bid numbers
rather than the last 5 history... Not sure how I misread it the first time.

So, I have no idea wth I was thinking when I said that - must be a
case of the "Mondays" or early Alzheimer's.


Ahhh well, here's hoping the rest of the week is more lucid.


Regards,
4


I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Does anyone else find the new forums' "ignore" feature much less convenient than the old one?

Less convenient (it really should be an option in the pull-down menu when you click their name), but much more effective at helping me pretend they don't exist.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourSpeed View Post
Actually, as I understand it, it is doing 5 "artificial sales" to make the history
look like some arbitrary pricing is "normal" for that item.

In re-reading his post (reading comprehension FTW - DOH! ) that's
not what he did (My Bad) - he was simply playing with bid numbers
rather than the last 5 history... Not sure how I misread it the first time.

So, I have no idea wth I was thinking when I said that - must be a
case of the "Mondays" or early Alzheimer's.


Ahhh well, here's hoping the rest of the week is more lucid.


Regards,
4
Ahh! yes I can see where that would be a form of painting the tape, however in the game I would assume that it would only work for large volumes of commodities. you take a hit in buying 5 to begin with, then another 10% loss when they re-sell at your painted price, so you would need a significant stock to make up the difference and get you back in the black. Personally I wouldn't bother doing this as wildly as stock and prices fluctuate even on the blue chips. Just set your price and wait hell even Fulmens came close to unloading his luck charms!


Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.