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What did you expect when you shop in the '50s? |
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
When i was looking to buy the comp i got now, in one store a clerk even said "do you really a machine that fast for blogging and chatting?", suffice to say, he did not make a sale to me that day.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
-sticks mechanical arm in the air-
Now, none of this thread makes much sense to me...For someone who plays a lot of tech characters I'm really, REALLY un-tech-literate ^^;
Also looking at a new PC. An actual desktop. My laptop can run CoX on minimum settings fairly capably, but thats kind of...meh.
I also do a lot of Photoshop stuff, (Read Did, still need to get my hands on a new version) and am on a Digital Animation Degree.
Also means a student budget, although I can probably get a bit of support there at any rate.
Meshcomputers seem to do some good rigs, and my cousin got one there for about 500 squids that outperforms something twice the price on most sites like Dell.
Any help/advice out there?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You could do a lot worse than this Rig from Scan.co.uk.
Coolermaster Elite 360, Black, Minitower Case w/o PSU
500W Ezcool PSU Silent 80mm Fan 24pin+4pin ATX v2.03 (OEM)
Intel Pentium Dual-Core, E6300, S775, Wolfdale, 2.80 GHz, 2MB Cache, 10.5x Core Ratio, 65W, Retail
Asus P5KPL-AM iG31, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 1066(OC)/667/800, SATA 3Gb/s, uATX, VGA
4GB (2x2GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC, Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-18
1TB Hitachi 0A38016 Deskstar 7K1000.B, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 16MB Cache
Samsung SH-S223B/BEBE 22x DVD±R, 12x DVD±R, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, SATA, Black, OEM
2 x 45cm Akasa AK-CB053 SATA II cable with Latch connector - Silver Clear Cable
22" Digimate - DGM L-2262WD Black, Widescreen LCD, 5 ms, DVI/VGA, 1680x1050, 700:1, Speakers
A whole PC, sans keyboard and mouse, INCLUDING monitor for £344.99 inc VAT +Del. yes you'll need a graphics card on top, but for the price, that is an AMAZING deal. OS isn't included either but Windows 7 would run great. Paired up with one of These if you're on a budget would be ideal, taking your total to £425. you could even upgrade the CPU to something faster, even a Quad Core when you get back into your photoshop at a later date.
CoH, and just about any recent game would run great. Only problem I can think of is some of the 'cheaper' TFT monitors still don't match up against a quality CRT for colour balance etc which may be important for your degree course and the lack of OS. Should you decide to go for some all singing all dancing graphics card it's possible the PSU wouldn't be able to take one of the higher graphics cards (She cannae take it Captin!!), but the Ati 4850 I linked too is faster than my Nvidia 8800GT and I have no trouble running batman AA on my rig which has the same size monitor as that one. Having said that, I bet you could pick up a big CRT monitor for peanuts these days, if your desk is big enough to take the weight!
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
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Apologies for sticking my head over here from across the pond but I was bored and noticed this thread.|
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
Well, i've been thinking on retiring my old warhorse. Currently on a a intel dual core 2.67ghz with 4gb ram and a 8800gts graphics card. Starting to feel a little slow (well not really slow, but i've been forced to tone down settings in some games now) to me and i've started poking around for a new one.
Now i'm probably not gonna buy one anytime soon (guessing after x-mas), definatly not before windows 7 is out tho. What i'm looking for is a gaming machine mostly, but i'm not really uptodate on everything. I don't wanna skimp out on stuff because it's cheap, but at the same time i don't wanna overpay for minimal gains. I've been glancing somewhat at this machine: https://www.inet.se/datorer/stationa...gamer/1517094/ Now my biggest questions are probably. The processor, i understand i7 is the newest one out and i was looking at some prices. why is the 3.33 Ghz almost 4 times as expensive as the 2.66 one? is it four times as fast? what makes it that much more spendy? And the graphics card, how much better is a 285 or even a 295? i know the 285 is about 50% more expensive and the 295 is over twice as much as the 275. Is there a point with SLI? how many games are actually gonna take advantage of that? (note, i do not want an ati) And how much benefit am i gonna see if i get a velociraptor harddrive, they're pretty small only 100-150gb, but i guess they're faster. Should i put the OS on that if i get one or games? and how much of a diffrence do they really make? Would i notice any diffrence with more than 6GB memory? if i should say double that. And is there something else coming out in the near future that might be worth waiting for, either for being really good or due to it's gonna drive prices down on other parts. I'm asking here for some info prior to going into a computer store cause for some reason i tend get odd looks when i ask for a gaming rig and not taken seriously. When i was looking to buy the comp i got now, in one store a clerk even said "do you really a machine that fast for blogging and chatting?", suffice to say, he did not make a sale to me that day. |
-- CPU --
The major differences between the 3.33GHz i7-975 and the 2.66GHz i7-920, other than 25% faster CPU clock speed are an unlocked CPU multiplier, higher clocked L3 cache and memory controller and higher clocked QPI bus to the X58 Northbridge.
It is not unusual that in very high end gaming system to have 3 single GPU high end video cards or a pair of dual GPU (like the GTX 295 or HD 4870 X2) cards in the system. High end GPUs want to be fed. Since the video cards are connected to the X58 Northbridge, a faster bus between the CPU and the Northbridge seems desirable. The i7-975 runs at 3.2GHz while the i7-920 and 950 runs at 2.4GHz.
Games are also sensitive to memory performance. The faster L3 cache and memory controller of the "uncore" (Intel's term) portion of the i7 improves performance by a bit. The uncore of the i7-975 runs at 2.66GHz, the i7-920 and 950 runs at 2.13GHz.
However the i7-975 can be overclocked without changing the base clock speed making it arguably a more stable overclocking platform. Between that and the faster L3 cache, memory controller and QPI bus, it's a perfect CPU for gamers with a lot of cash and Intel knows it.
The thing is however that the i7-920 can easily be overclocked to the same speeds of the i7-975 by upping the base clock from 133 to 167MHz. Only the QPI will be running slower at 3.0GHz. Home builders know this and that's the route they'll take than paying through the nose.
-- Video Card --
Your 8800GTS has 128 streaming processors to do it's work. Both the GTX 275 and 285 have 240. The main difference between the two cards is the 285 has about 25% more video memory bandwidth than the 275 and 14% more memory. It's also clocked slightly faster. The GTX 295 can be thought of as two underclocked GTX 275s but as a single card, already set up as SLi.
It's easy for a game developer to design a game that shines when multiple video cards are used. It's much more difficult to make it look good and run well with a single card. It's easy to believe that SLi or Crossfire setups are required looking at video card reviews. But it is important to remember that those benchmarks are run usually with all the game options turned to 11. Also very high resolutions are also used, 2560x1600 is not uncommon to show off the advantage of a multiple video card setup. But the real question that reviewers should be asking, and a few do, is how far off of the extreme settings do you need to back off to get an acceptable frame rate at various resolutions?
I personally am of the opinion that a single "powerful" GPU card should be enough for most people and that a little tuning of game settings will give most people an acceptable trade off between performance and pretty. Multiple video card setups use a lot of power, produce a lot of heat and inconsistent benefit depending on the game. And by powerful I'm talking in the $250-350 US range.
-- Hard Drive --
This historical review of drives should give you and idea how much better a 150GB VelociRaptor drive is compared to a 1TB Caviar Black for instance. Yellow drives are 3.5 inch, Blue are 2.5 inch, 10000 RPM drives like the VelociRaptor is brown, solid state drives (SSD) are in green. Short version, the VelociRaptor is 6-10 times more expensive per GB than a 1 TB 7200RPM drive. The VelociRaptor still has better random seek times but transfer rates are nearly the same with the newest 7200 RPM drives. The really fast small drives are SSDs now but they make the VelociRaptor look cheap on a per GB basis. They are also not quite there yet, there are still a few problems that need to be cleared up, besides the price, before they go mainstream.
-- Memory --
Is 6GB of system memory enough? Tom's Hardware thinks so.
-- What's Coming? --
Both Intel and AMD will be introducing 6 core CPUs within a year. DDR3 is here to stay and it's price is nearly the same as DDR2 finally. 2TB drives are now out. ATI just released their next gen video card to compete with the GTX 275 and 285. nVidia's next gen GPU is rumored to be late. SATA 3 and USB 3 are coming soon to motherboards. Few devices can take advantage of the addition bandwidth they provide (SSDs basically).
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Edit: One last thing. Your computer store story reminds me of this.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
That was a pretty good explanation. Much better than the "buy x, buy y" Thanks!
Sounds like you are getting good advice already I would just toss in that you should be looking at a Solid State Drive but you need to be careful and get the right one. About 90% of them stink right now and about 75% won't accept the TRIM command from Win7 (which you said you were getting) Go with an Intel x25-m (the g2 or later) or an OCZ vertex (make absolutely sure it has the Indilinx controller if you go with OCZ as some of their models have the older Samsung controller... the Intel has an Intel controller naturally). Read here for more of why this is important.
I would say get a fast SSD as your main C: drive to run Win7 with TRIM (plus all your games and video/photo editing apps) and a raptor (if you really think you need it) for storage or a "not quite as fast but tons more storage for the buck" Seagate or WesternDigital if you don't.
Also I'd hold off on a videocard decision as there will be a new generation of cards which is always a good time to buy as you can choose the newer faster card or get what was once top of the line for cheaper cuz there is a new king of the hill now.
ATI has already released their new series 5 and it spanks Nvidia right now so expect a price drop in the next few months from Nvidia and a new series of cards that will try and reclaim the throne.
Good luck
Sorry about diving in on this so late. Most of the advice is fairly correct. Father Xmas' post is pretty much dead in the black.
One SMALL disagreement on a newer video card without replacing the system. It's a practical "gotcha", rather than a technical or performance-related one.
MEASURE your case BEFORE purchasing an expensive new video card. I've personally run into setups that were "technically" able to fit a card. HOWEVER, it meant removal of internal components (like fans, etc). Or where hardware on the motherboard itself actively prevented it (perpendicular-mount SATA headers and chipset coolers are notorious for this).
Reason: A lot of these new cards are double-width, due to the extensive cooling systems bolted onto the side. Moreover, these cards run quite long and wide.
For reference. Most of the cards have these approximate measurements:
Width: 1.5 inches (3.81 cm)
Depth (Height): 4.4 inches (11.176 cm)
Length: 10.5 inches (26.67 cm)
Nominal height of the top of the PCI-E connector from the board face (the clearance you'll need components in front of the slot to be under): .44 inches (11.25 mm)
Also, if a chip is supported by your motherboard, even if the "FSB" speed is higher, in most cases for the last several years, the FSB and memory clock have been decoupled. Performance takes a small hit, but nothing horrendous (as older Single-Channel Single Data-Rate SDRAM did). In short, you can keep your DDR2 800 memory, you simply won't get maximum performance out if it.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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It's not an issue. I've had 15 years of building PCs for myself and have just gotten tired of having to do it every few years.
This way, I get what I want (and then some), I get what I need to play the latest games and I get added portability for the rare occassions when I'll be away from home.
Sure, I could have spent less and gotten something just as capable, but it's the first time I've ever been able to afford something like this and I just decided to go for it.
As someone I knew once said, "Enjoy yourself, life isn't a rehearsal!"
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
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