Post 50 powergain. Or "The dreaded level cap!"

I know suggestions for raising the level cap come up all the time, and, on consideration... As much as I would LOVE to see the level cap increased, I know it's not exceptionally likely. It would require such a massive amount of work, new zones, new enemies, new powers new this, new that.. all of which would only really be that much of a boon to certain players. (As there are many who are still perfectly happy playing their 50s AT 50.)

But, there are also those like me.. who tend to have a bit of a hard time playing their 50s, because... there's just something really fun about pushing to that next level, and just getting stronger for your efforts.

With the IO system, we have that option, a little bit... but unfortunately the IO system requires us to pretty much either grind TFs, AE missions/farms, or work the market. Or just sit there and farm for inf.

I then came up with a system that might actually work. I was thinking at first, basing it off XP gain, but that would make it a little harder for the devs to control, especially post I16, where you'll gain XP even when exemped. But the Merit system is what I finally settled on for the idea.

For the moment, we will call these 'Epic Merits' or EM for short.
EM would never be awarded to anyone under level 50.
EM would never be awarded for enemies under level 50.
EM would not drop in Architect missions.
EM would be non-transferable.
EM would not drop on Mothership Raids.

(please note, all numbers are examples)
EM would be earned through the following methods:
Mission completion of a level 50 mission would grant a bonus based on the XP bonus the mission would award.
Enemy defeats:
Minions: 15% drop chance, 5% chance to drop two. (Effectively for every 100 minions killed, you'd get 20. 10 dropping 1, 5 dropping 2)
Lt: 50% drop chance, 25% drop chance for 2, 5% drop chance for 3. (100 lts would = 85)
Boss: 100% drop chance, 50% for 2, 10% for 3. (100 bosses would = 170)
EBs: Boss drop +1.
AVs: 5 EM.

For enemy levels above 50, it would earn a slightly higher drop chance (or higher chance for increased numbers from bosses), AVs would get +1 per level (so a 54 AV would drop 9)

Any instance you would earn Reward Merits, you would also earn EM.

Rewards:
For 500 EM, you could add a single slot to a power.
For 1000 EM, you could add a 7th slot to any 6 slotted power. (This could only be done once per power)
For 1000 to 3000 EM, you could add a 5% 'enhancer' bonus to a power. (This bonus would be applied like any other enhancer, other than it would not take up a slot, nor would it be effected by diminishing returns. It could replicate any standard enhancer. Cost would depend on what you were enhancing.)
For 5000 EM, you could choose an additional power standardly available to you.
*removed*For 9,999 EM, you could choose a single power from any set which you would then have as an inherent power. This could only be done one single time per character.*This idea is hereby removed from the concept. It's being left in the post so that certain posts later make sense.*
For 5000 to 9,999 EM you could choose a 5.1% 'global' buff like those awarded from IOs. As with IO set bonuses, you could only benefit from 5 of any identical one. Cost would be based off the bonus taken.

Potentially for various amount of EM, you could also get special 7 piece Purple IO sets.


The idea behind this system is that it adds very little to the game above and beyond what IO sets already offer. But it would allow for level 50s to continue to grow in power by continuing to be heroes (or villains of course).
I don't feel any of the options are exceptionally game breaking, except for perhaps the unrestricted power, which could perhaps be a touch (.. okay quite a bit) broken. But, for someone to save up until they had 9,999 EMs, and only be able to do it once.. I'm not sure it would be that bad.
If it would be perhaps too broken, some restrictions could be put in.

It is possible that this would lead to, over time, them possibly needing some slightly harder 50+ content. But, we already see a need for that with these people who can comfortably solo +4/X8 missions, or AVs, or Rikti Pylons, or any number of other things that were not intended to be soloable.

Thoughts? (Preferably on the concept, and ways it could be better balanced.)

One thing I'm toying with for balance reasons is either not granting for Minions at all, or further reducing the numbers for minions.

Not going to fiddle with numbers and percentages, as there are others far more mathematically inclined (to say that's too much or too little, too often or too rare.)

We know the devs have mentioned looking at ways of improving 50s without touching the level cap. These, in general, sound like they may be right in line with that sort of planning. The only one I'd be wary of at first read through is picking one of any power, even once, to have as an inherent. Just a sense that could be... troublesome.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Woohoo! Now the Claws/SR can ALSO get some extra defense sets from Willpower and be entirely untouchable!

Rather than any power, maybe only the first two powers from any set restricted to your side, unless you have Going Rogue of course. A Hero can't have Alcaloid from Poison, or a Villain can't have Healing Aura from Empathy. Other than that, I can see this being one of the likely few options available for post-50 progression other than raising the cap or adding more purple IOs.

I like it, three thumbs up.

It seems like a ton of work to give to very few players. There are still many people who have not yet earned a 50 even.

What you are suggesting has a host of problems, not least of which being that you're trading one horrible grind for another. Getting as few as 500 of these points would require around 2500 minions, and that's just absurd as a minimum.

The bigger problem, however, is that your suggestion is just another means to get a level cap increase without getting a level cap increase. You may not mean it like this, but that's what it ends up being. When people ask for a level cap increase, they are looking to get more of what levels usually give - more powers and more slots. Specifically, more of the things Castle has expressly said WILL NOT be given even IF a level cap increase were ever considered. What your system does is exactly that - it grants more powers and more slots, but in a roundabout way. That on its face makes it unworkable.

The game, as it stands, has finite levels to which its numbers can increase, and balance becomes harder the higher they go. For instance, a player with 90% damage resistance would take TEN TIMES the normal damage to break even, and such damage would utterly DESTROY a player with little or no resistance (say a Blaster). Making the power gap between haves and have nots, as it were, too big just makes balancing the game for everybody too difficult. Couple that with the fact that, unlike most other MMOs, City of Heroes is not built around a power replacement model, where old powers become obsolete and are replaced with new powers. In City of Heroes, all powers are useful at all levels they are available for. This can easily lead to having too many power. That is, in fact, already the case for a lot of characters now.

"Attack chains" are finite, and more attacks only really end up either being obsolete or making older attacks obsolete. Too many shields cost too much because the cost adds up, and we don't have a reliable way to increase our endurance pool. It goes on and on. City of Heroes simply isn't a game built on the additive competition between opposing stats the way something like WoW is, so you can't really increase your offence a hundred times and increase enemy defence a hundred times and have everything be all fine and dandy. Look at the reasons why nasty enemies are nasty - they're not just strong, because there's a finite amount to their strength before they become absurd. Instead, they have dangerous powers, like holds and endurance drain.

The developers have discussed ways to keep improving after level 50, but if I were you, I would NOT hope to see more powers or slots, or indeed even Inventions that are too much stronger. I don't know what they have in mind, but I hope it comes with more content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Isnt this kinda OP'd?

Great idea imho, but...
...we know the devs have some "+10 level sort-of" plan which gives us the opportunity to "unlock" 10 more power slots or something and it's likely it's in the GR expansion not available to non-expanders just like most other (well, THAT other one we don't talk about) MMOs.

I'd honestly rather see it being unlockable by doing something than by tedious grinding although it might mean some of my alts won't ever feel that love. Also, it might mean people need to team up and I'd love for thoose "I don't wanna team, I prefer solo" dudes to feel the.... not-love! This IS an MMO so tedious solo grinders deserve to be left out!

Don't I recall an interview pertaining to GR that said they're going to be introducing a post-50 advancement mechanism involving special enhancement-type slots? I recall it saying you will be able to get up to ten of them (no indication of how) and that each one would allow for some kind of significant advantage to the character. I'm almost certain I didn't dream that. Can anyone back me up on that?

Robin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha ...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...

Sam, the issue here is you're using "Hardcore, powergaming players with far too much time to devote to the game." as the 'common player'.

I STILL haven't run all the 'end game' content blueside.
Going Rogue will mean that I'll have the end-game content redside to play with, too (with one character), not to mention the flashback system, in which I can play the non-end game content that I've missed (on both sides)

I don't deny the system I proposed needs work.
I also don't deny that it could lead to a grind fest for some, and I would like a way to prevent that. The factor here though is.. it's only going to be a grind fest if you're continuing to play your character just to improve your power, which if you're just playing to improve your power, the entire game is a grind fest.

But can you propose any fair method of increasing the "power cap", without it either leading to an endless grind, or requireing the devs to CONSTANTLY add new end-game content.

Well, you could reward badges with something very small. Let's say heal badges reward a +0,1% regen bonus, defeating magic creatures badges could give a +0,1% resist to their damage etc. That would make badges meaningful again. (Although I personally think most of them should be account wide instead). Sure it's grinds, but it's different grinds!

With the imvention sets, especially purples, I think there's enough to buff you up though, but a lot of us have done most of the content repeatedly in this five year old game. More high end content for our souped up characters would be nice, and some sort of reward for it would be even nicer.

I actually have characters that have no use for more slots (MMs mostly) and really, few 50s need to get stronger although making them stronger is what drives many of us. (I still have no perma-dom, or really speedy stone tanker/brute, or super-regen'ing regen or...)

This game has lived a long time on the fact it's replayable. You really want to make more alts, and nowadays you can buy more character slots, but we deffo need the devs to think about the future, and that's why I like you're proposal anyway. I'm rather fed up making new alts that really isn't new at all playing the same-old, same-old even if I still really like the game. I wanna play those 50s I've invested so much time, effort etc on. ...and I'm fed up with ITF.