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Except "tank" is a widespread MMO term that refers to the person leading the team and grabbing the mobs' aggro, and it's been around since long before CoH. |
Originally Posted by Smurphy
The actual City of Heroes "Tank" archetype can't do anything about those outrageous examples you guys came up with too.
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And there's no such thing as "the actual City of Heroes 'Tank' archetype". We have a Tanker AT blueside and a Brute AT redside which fullfill the role of a tank, if that's what you were babbling about.
And like I said before, having a full corruptor team buffed up to the teeth and pwnz0rin everything in the room is a very good approach, but again that's not tanking. You may call it obliterating, devastating, decimating, crushing, punishing, heck you may even call it corrupting and that's cool, but tanking? nope.
I'd say a corr can tank as well as a tank right up until you hit AVs. At that point it's going to take a lot of IOs or a lot of outside buffs.
Why? Agro cap. If the absolute maximum number of things you can hold agro on regardless of AT is 16, then the definition of a tank is someone who can:
Hold agro on 16 targets indefinitely
Survive return fire from 16 targets indefinitely
My corrupter does this, and she's not even built or IOed for it. As Rad/Kin I eat a purple and pop Fulcrum Shift, Irradiate, and Nuclear Bomb. That's enough damage to keep agro attached to me for a good long time. Transfusion is powerful enough to keep me alive, and that's with all of 10% ranged and 3% melee defense plus my resist shield.
Can I main tank Statesman? No, I go all chunky salsa when he hits me. I can't even solo +4 rikti bosses without a little help; but I can hold agro on 16 +3 bosses and survive. That's not me theorycrafting - I often run with teams that end up overpulling and my /kin ends up tanking the second pack.
If I actually set out to build a character for this, I'm sure I could tank 'normal' stuff without the occasional deaths I deal with now - just like a well built tank.
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Oh yes mine can. My Tankmage makes everyone else a tankmage.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Can your corruptor keep my Spines/fire scrapper who is shooting everything he can at max speed with both auras blazing from getting killed? If so then it can tank. If not then nope.
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D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
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Y'know how when you're losing an argument and you refuse to acknowledge it you pull out a ridiculous example? I did that.|
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
Oh yes mine can. My Tankmage makes everyone else a tankmage.
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That scrapper can pull the aggro off of two taunting tanks.
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A well-played Dark Miasma character takes all the aggro regardless of their teammates' ATs or actions :P
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Y'know how when you're losing an argument and you refuse to acknowledge it you pull out a ridiculous example? I did that.
That scrapper can pull the aggro off of two taunting tanks. |
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A Scrapper pulling a single tanker taunted target at a time is most likely depending on the type of tanker and both their proximities to the enemy. I think a scrapper being able to do that is fine.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Y'know how when you're losing an argument and you refuse to acknowledge it you pull out a ridiculous example? I did that.
That scrapper can pull the aggro off of two taunting tanks. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
My Dominator can take aggro from a taunting ice Tanker, then die and take aggro again when rezzed due to mob memory. Doesn't have anything to do with the discussion of tanking at hand.
Traps Corrs can alpha tank very well. They're almost meant for it. They cannot control aggro the way a proper Tanker AT can. That's what makes a 'real tank' valuable in the game. Otherwise, any AT can alpha tank with the right build and powers.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
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"indefinitely" probably isnt the best word choice here, as pseudo tanks of varying ATs can all tank in different ways. Many times the best kind of tank needed for a situation is just taking alphas. Alphas dont require you being able to hold aggro indefinitely, but at the same time doesnt make you any less of a "tank". |
Originally Posted by Hart
Why? Agro cap. If the absolute maximum number of things you can hold agro on regardless of AT is 16, then the definition of a tank is someone who can:
Hold agro on 16 targets indefinitely Survive return fire from 16 targets indefinitely |
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My corrupter does this, and she's not even built or IOed for it. As Rad/Kin I eat a purple and pop Fulcrum Shift, Irradiate, and Nuclear Bomb. That's enough damage to keep agro attached to me for a good long time. Transfusion is powerful enough to keep me alive, and that's with all of 10% ranged and 3% melee defense plus my resist shield. Can I main tank Statesman? No, I go all chunky salsa when he hits me. I can't even solo +4 rikti bosses without a little help; but I can hold agro on 16 +3 bosses and survive. That's not me theorycrafting - I often run with teams that end up overpulling and my /kin ends up tanking the second pack. If I actually set out to build a character for this, I'm sure I could tank 'normal' stuff without the occasional deaths I deal with now - just like a well built tank. |
Well, a Tank could Taunt the mob and direct the flow of carnage away from the teammates by turning the critter's backs to the team. It's not very difficult and is a direct result of Tanking.
Of course a Tank in CoX cna be one-shotted. I was merely tossing out a rhetorical question to show doing so was a poor attempt at proving a poor point.
Most Corrs can be built, with IOs, to become very sturdy and surviable but I wouldn't suggest they could Tank. And by "tank," I mean match the aggro control and survivability of the average, same level, same IOed Tank AT.
And as for Smurphy's earlier question, "What if the mobs don't have a second shot?" That's not going to happen to every group a team encounters. You're not going to one-shot groups of mobs, even with nukes. There will be mobs a team misses because of target caps, and there will still be some cleaning up to do even after a massive opening volley.