I guess I don't understand the AE nerf


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I was trying to make sense of what I was reading about how it would scale down if you don't have one of each type of enemy in a mob(boss, LT, and minion)

Is that only for custom enemies? and how will it effect some of my more squishy toons who when they solo they only get Minions and LTs when they go through a Mission?

I have a couple missions that I don't think have even one Boss in them other than the end Boss, so I guess I will have to redesign those Arcs, I guess it is not a big deal since I don't run the AE missions much anymore, the only time our SG even uses it is when we have so many different levels we need the Auto SK to get us all the same level, but with the new way I16 will auto SK/Exp everyone I guess we won't need it anymore, guess this will finally kill most of the AE abuse.....


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Posted

Sounds like you DO mostly understand it.


 

Posted

Not quite, if you don't get an of an enemy type (i.e. bosses) because of team size and/or difficulty setting then you're fine. You only get reduced rewards if you design the mission using a custom group that doesn't have any enemies of a particular type.

So your squishy toons will be ok, the bosses are still available in the mission they just don't spawn because of difficulty settings.


 

Posted

Pretty much what Adeon said.

Just to clarify - yes, this applies only to custom enemy groups in the AE. Specifically, this seems to be targeted at boss-only custom groups used to spawn the 'boss farms' that have been rampant lately. Such a group would now have severely reduced rewards.

There's no problem if the group in question has an appropriate mix of minions, lieutenants and bosses in its makeup. Whether or not you spawn them doesn't matter - it's the compostion of the group. So even if you never see a boss because you're playing on Heroic with a small team, the fact that those bosses exist in the group means your rewards are untouched.

Naturally, those who enjoy abusing the AE in this way will loudly cry DOOM at this change (those who haven't got wind of it already and are making a lot of sound and fury about the game dying as a result). Most people won't be affected in the least, since they either weren't heavily using the AE or were using story groups that were properly built in the first place. Most farmers will move on to the next-most-lucrative abuse of the system they can find. Most probably already have.


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Posted

They also slightly nerfed Freakshow XP (they were farmed for a long time before AE) just in case. Farmers get nerfed as a matter of course, but the effect generally isn't noticeable among non-farmers, despite what they say.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire View Post
They also slightly nerfed Freakshow XP (they were farmed for a long time before AE) just in case. Farmers get nerfed as a matter of course, but the effect generally isn't noticeable among non-farmers, despite what they say.
Well, I've heard MA authors complain that this cripples their creativity because they now cannot make all-minion or minion-less missions because who would play something with nerfed XP?

I myself find that rather silly because the story authors of CoX have to deal with these conventions as well and dealt with it appropriately from what I heard, like that mission that's all Paragon Protectors at al three ranks.

Really, you shouldn't be surprised you get a bad mark for your sonnet because it's 10 lines long as opposed to 14. The authors can complain about feeling limited now, sure, but the fact remains they can still whatever they fancy, and the fact that the official authors of CoX had to deal with these 'limitations' for five years now.

Sonnets rock, and if you don't like their limitations, well, you can always read other poems.


 

Posted

Cool no worries then, I haven't really created many custom enemies, mainly because they end up wooping my tail, plus I like to keep my stories CoX rooted with actual CoX enemy groups. Anyways I think it is a good idea, my SG won't even need AE anymore with the new SK/Exp feature coming, we can all be the same level without auto SK or trying to match up everyone withing a few levels of eachother using SK, GREAT change to the game


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Posted

Although you do come across some outstanding custom villain groups, like Sister Blaze's story arc that has the Disco Trolls. Those guys are a hoot to fight!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryhavoc View Post
Although you do come across some outstanding custom villain groups, like Sister Blaze's story arc that has the Disco Trolls. Those guys are a hoot to fight!
That's Sister Flame.

And yes, its an awesome story thought up by an 8 year old.


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Posted

Hmm, I created a villain story arc that involves existing groups such as Longbow and the Paragon Police. However, I also created a custom group of superheroes that need to be defeated throughout the arc. All the heroes in this group are lieutenants or higher. They all appear in the arc as unique set encounters, always placed on a map that includes regular spawns of Longbow and Police.

Would this arc be affected by the change? Will the heroes get reduced XP because their group has no minions (even though minions aplenty belonging to other groups appear on the same map?) If so, would adding token minions to the custom group solve the issue, even if those minions aren't included in the arc?

I guess I'm not too concerned about it, but some of the hero bosses in that arc are a bit tough and it seems a shame if their XP isn't even up to par.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon View Post
Hmm, I created a villain story arc that involves existing groups such as Longbow and the Paragon Police. However, I also created a custom group of superheroes that need to be defeated throughout the arc. All the heroes in this group are lieutenants or higher. They all appear in the arc as unique set encounters, always placed on a map that includes regular spawns of Longbow and Police.

Would this arc be affected by the change? Will the heroes get reduced XP because their group has no minions (even though minions aplenty belonging to other groups appear on the same map?) If so, would adding token minions to the custom group solve the issue, even if those minions aren't included in the arc?

I guess I'm not too concerned about it, but some of the hero bosses in that arc are a bit tough and it seems a shame if their XP isn't even up to par.
The only exception to the rule is that if you place a boss objective then the boss itself always awards full XP regardless of the group he's in but the enemy group that spawns with him uses the normal rules. So say you're group of heroes is called the Awesome Squad and their leader is Captain McAwesome.

If you set the boss encounter to be Captain McAwesome surrounded by a squad of Longbow then full experience will be awarded for all enemies. However if you set the encounter to be Captain McAwesome surrounded by members of the Awesome Squad then full XP will be awarded for killing Captain McAwesome but the members of the Awesome Squad will award reduced XP. Adding a token minion to the group will fix the second situation but some of the minions will then spawn as part of the encounter (setting the minions to "don't auto-spawn" will stop them from spawning but you still get reduced rewards).

If you're using members of the Awesome Squad together in a non-boss objective (as an ambush, patrol, or battle for example) then they will award reduced XP unless you have an appropriate level minion available to spawn.


 

Posted

Cool, then I should be good, since my custom enemies only appear as boss objectives, never as random spawns.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon View Post
Cool, then I should be good, since my custom enemies only appear as boss objectives, never as random spawns.
Yes and no, I guess I wasn't entirely clear. In the boss objective setting there are two places that you can specify an enemy group. One is for the boss himself the other is for the single group that spawns around him (i.e. his escort). Since you mentioned having lieutenants in your custom group I'm guessing that you use them as the escorts in the boss objective. In that case they will not award full XP, however the primary enemy group for the map (i.e. Longbow or PPD) will still award full XP as will the boss himself.

Also as a side note, remember that any custom character that uses the standard or custom settings will give reduced XP.


 

Posted

I'm still good, the escorts in the boss objectives are all non-custom groups like Longbow etc. My custom group only appear as the individual boss objectives themselves--yes, even the lieutenants, who represent the "lower ranks" of the superhero group that the villains need to cull as they work their way up to the tougher opponents.

So no, once you take out McAwesome-Lad, you won't later run into Captain McAwesome surrounded by 3 clones of McAwesome-Lad. The good Captain will just have to rely on his Longbow cannon fodder instead.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon View Post
I'm still good, the escorts in the boss objectives are all non-custom groups like Longbow etc. My custom group only appear as the individual boss objectives themselves--yes, even the lieutenants, who represent the "lower ranks" of the superhero group that the villains need to cull as they work their way up to the tougher opponents.

So no, once you take out McAwesome-Lad, you won't later run into Captain McAwesome surrounded by 3 clones of McAwesome-Lad. The good Captain will just have to rely on his Longbow cannon fodder instead.
Huh, I wasn't aware you could even set a lieutenant as a boss objective (shows you how much I use the AE ).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Huh, I wasn't aware you could even set a lieutenant as a boss objective (shows you how much I use the AE ).
You can even set up a minion as a boss objective.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imoba Strife View Post
You can even set up a minion as a boss objective.
Or an underling, for that matter.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire View Post
Or an underling, for that matter.
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Posted

Oh, you'll have more chances.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxilicious View Post
Well, I've heard MA authors complain that this cripples their creativity because they now cannot make all-minion or minion-less missions because who would play something with nerfed XP?

I myself find that rather silly because the story authors of CoX have to deal with these conventions as well and dealt with it appropriately from what I heard, like that mission that's all Paragon Protectors at al three ranks.

Really, you shouldn't be surprised you get a bad mark for your sonnet because it's 10 lines long as opposed to 14. The authors can complain about feeling limited now, sure, but the fact remains they can still whatever they fancy, and the fact that the official authors of CoX had to deal with these 'limitations' for five years now.

Sonnets rock, and if you don't like their limitations, well, you can always read other poems.
The difference is that the devs aren't limited by file size like we are. If for instance you wanted to create a coalition of villains centered around the theme of let's say the four seasons. Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter. If you actually go so far as to create custom minions, lieutenants, and bosses plus an AV for each of the seasons you will have created 16 custom characters. At this point so much of your file space will have been used up that your mission arc will basically be limited to two missions with limited story telling and the descriptions of your custom characters had better be one word descriptions.

So no, the people actually writing the missions for the company don't have the same restraints we do. And yes we could tell five arc missions filled with all the appropriate types if we only want to use standard mobs instead of creating new and interesting types.

Tell you what. Go run through "The Butterfly Effect" by @gadgetdon. This mission was once a dev's choice but has since been replaced in dev's choice by the second arc in that series "Return of the Lizard People". That's right, two arcs in the series of three written so far by @gadgetdon have been made devs choice and all three of the arcs are very popular stories.

When you are finished tell me this. Does the experience for the first two missions deserve to be cut because they only feature minions and lieutenants? Should the great contact dialogue be cut down to a terse "Ok, now go do this." because more characters will need to be created in order to bring the mission up to the required level? Should the powers available to the minions and lieutenants be doubled just so they are worth the same experience as a normal Hellion?

In other words should the mission be changed from a challenging but not overwhelming arc with great storytelling into either an overwhelming arc that will destroy most teams and feature almost no story telling? Or should it be left as is and have all rewards for it cut in half?

I say drop the requirement of having at least 18 powers in order to get full experience for the mobs. Then double the size allowed for an arc. At that point I'll be glad to rewrite my arc (which purely coincidentally is based on the theme of the four seasons) so it includes minions, lieutenants, and bosses. But under the current restrictions I'll just unpublish it and not bother writing any more. I want to make a fun mission and tell a unique story. Not create team killer missions or tell a story that's about as sophisticated as Dick and Jane.


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Posted

I wanna see a Dick and Jane inspired arc now.

See Skuls. See Skuls run. Go. Hunt. Kil Skuls.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire View Post
I wanna see a Dick and Jane inspired arc now.

See Skuls. See Skuls run. Go. Hunt. Kil Skuls.

Curse you Prof, you are right. That could be a fun arc. Spot the wolfman. Puff the Catgirl.


Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!