The classic combination would be illusion/radiation. It's considered possibly the best powerset combination in the game.
I've had good luck with illusion/FF. Add a "grant invisibility" from the power pools and you have a great support character.
others may have different opinions.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
What makes Radiation Emission better than Kinetics and Force Fields?
It contains two of the best debuffs in the game (Radiation Infection/ Ennervating field). Also you get an endurance booster (Accelerate metabolism) , An area effect heal (radiant aura), a resurrect (mutate), a targeted area slow (lingering radiation), a personal area effect hold, a big AoE stun, and even a power which allows you to use fallen teammates as a weapon.
The two debuffs alone can make just about any opponent beatable. Combine the others and it's almost unfair. Add to this illusion's phantom army/ phantasm and you're close to unstoppable.
Ill/rad starts off a bit slow but it makes up for it fairly quickly.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
Can i get a sample build? and is there any other secondarys that mesh well with Ill?
sorry, I'm not all that good with builds. I'm not that precise.
Anyone else have an opinion here? Feel free to jump in.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
You should read Local_Man's Ill/Rad guide. It's in the guides section =)
Basically, with Illusion, you don't have a lot of hard control, and your pets aren't buffable. However, Rad gives you an extra hold or two, and debuffs your foes' Defense and resistance so that your pets do more damage regaurdless.
The other secondaries don't do as much or anything at all for Illusion. But Rad? It's a match made in heaven!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
trick arrow!!! it has more debuffs then rad by far (if u wanna debate it check it out in mids 1st) it has an extra single target hold (ice arrow), an extra aoe hold (emp arrow) which is also the best regen/rec debuff in the game, oil slick is just amazing!! great def/run speed debuff with knockdown and if you slot it with damage like you should you can get some amazing numbers off of it escpecially if u have all your debuffs and a couple acid arrows working them... imagine rain of fire that does ticks of 10 instead of 4-5 and it lasts twice as long...
its overkill how much these 2 sets have to offer each other, it has almost the best of every debuff you could get in the game and a small army to tank and fight for you
heres a build i had in my mids, it has perma hasten, 4 seconds off from perma phantom army, you can stack acid arrow up to 4 times ( 4x acid arrow= around -110 def debuff and 60 res debuff) disruption arrow is almost double stacked, need 1.5 more seconds off the rech to make it actually double (2x disruption arrow = another -30 res, glue arrow is pretty much double stacked....
if u have all of those on at once do the math u have -110% def debuff (+oil slick its 135% def debuff) 90% res debuff, 30% tohitt debuff with spec terror, emp arrow is 1000% regen and rec debuff and ZOMG if u power boost it ( obvioustly you cant power boost every one but...) itll get the def debuff up to 200ish% the tohitt debuff to 48% the regen and rec debuff to just under 2000%
GO WITH TRICK ARROW
its not a cheap build but its not too expensive either, really only the ragnarok set and the lotgs will be the worst part
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Blind BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5), HO:Endo(5)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow GravAnch-Immob(A), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(7), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(7), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(9), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Deceive CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(11), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(13)
Level 4: Glue Arrow RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Flash BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(15), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(15), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(17), HO:Endo(17), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(19), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 10: Ice Arrow BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(23), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(25), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), HO:Endo(27)
Level 12: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Super Jump Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Hurdle Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(27), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 20: Acid Arrow ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(31), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(33), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(33), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Health Heal-I(A)
Level 24: Stamina EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(34), EndMod-I(34)
Level 26: Spectral Terror Abys-Acc/Rchg(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear(34), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(36), Abys-Fear/Rng(36), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(36)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 30: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 32: Phantasm C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(39), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(40), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(42), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 38: EMP Arrow UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(43), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(43), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(45), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(45), Acc-I(45)
Level 41: Conserve Power RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpSkn-ResDam/Rchg(46), ImpSkn-EndRdx/Rchg(48), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), ImpSkn-Status(48), S'fstPrt-ResKB(50)
Level 47: Power Boost RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Super Speed Zephyr-ResKB(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
6% DamageBuff(Smashing)
6% DamageBuff(Lethal)
6% DamageBuff(Fire)
6% DamageBuff(Cold)
6% DamageBuff(Energy)
6% DamageBuff(Negative)
6% DamageBuff(Toxic)
6% DamageBuff(Psionic)
1.25% Defense(Fire)
1.25% Defense(Cold)
7.5% Defense(Energy)
7.5% Defense(Negative)
3.75% Defense(Ranged)
2.5% Defense(AoE)
2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)
4% Enhancement(Confused)
65% Enhancement(Accuracy)
106.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
64.9 HP (6.38%) HitPoints
Knockback (Mag -12)
Knockup (Mag -12)
MezResist(Confused) 10%
MezResist(Held) 10%
MezResist(Immobilize) 12.2%
MezResist(Sleep) 12.2%
MezResist(Stun) 10%
MezResist(Terrorized) 10%
29.5% (0.49 End/sec) Recovery
3.78% Resistance(Smashing)
3.78% Resistance(Lethal)
8.82% Resistance(Fire)
8.82% Resistance(Cold)
2% XPDebtProtection
------------
Set Bonuses:
Basilisk's Gaze
(Blind)
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
2% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Gravitational Anchor
(Entangling Arrow)
4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Coercive Persuasion
(Deceive)
4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
4% Enhancement(Confused)
4% DamageBuff(All)
10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Basilisk's Gaze
(Flash)
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
2% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Red Fortune
(Superior Invisibility)
MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
2% DamageBuff(All)
5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Superior Invisibility)
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Basilisk's Gaze
(Ice Arrow)
2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
2% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Combat Jumping)
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Blessing of the Zephyr
(Super Jump)
Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
Call to Arms
(Phantom Army)
2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
15.3 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
1.89% Resistance(Smashing,Lethal)
Shield Breaker
(Acid Arrow)
2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
Status Resistance 2.5%
2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
11% Enhancement(Accuracy)
Glimpse of the Abyss
(Spectral Terror)
2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)
19.1 HP (1.88%) HitPoints
9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Call to Arms
(Phantasm)
2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
15.3 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
1.89% Resistance(Smashing,Lethal)
Ragnarok
(Oil Slick Arrow)
4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Unbreakable Constraint
(EMP Arrow)
4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Impervious Skin
(Temp Invulnerability)
MezResist(Sleep) 2.2%
15.3 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
2% XPDebtProtection
5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Status Resistance 7.5%
Steadfast Protection
(Temp Invulnerability)
Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
Blessing of the Zephyr
(Super Speed)
Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
I love my illusion/emp but i hear good things about ill/rad. Heya X 
Ill's main power is Phantom Army. Main issue being it has a hefty recharge preventing you from using it all the time.
So sets that provide haste to the user are quite popular (rad & kin).
As long as PA is up for every group, you basically don't need more control...
Thing is kin is mostly a buffing set and PA isn't buffable. Also phantasm uses energy attacks and will sometimes knock targets away which can become quite a pain with powers like transfusion & transference, even Fulcrum Shift if torrent just hits a bunch with KB...
Pretty rare, but highly annoying.
Also as Ill doesn't have a reliable way to setup containment for AOE ownage with FS, people will often pick other sets for kins.
Still the haste kin provides makes it a nice secondary for Ill just because of PA.
Rad having awesome debuffs and PA being invulnerable tanks means some Ill/Rads can solo AVs, and GMs, which made the combination highly popular, even if only a tiny number can achieve that (requires good IOs).
Other than haste sets, secondaries providing debuffs instead of buffs are doing great with PA (TA, Storm).
Ill/Storm is famous for being the most chaos oriented combo in game, also the master of "summons" as you have a lot of pets & pseudo pets to summon.
Secondaries providing some control are also popular as Ill doesn't have much "hard control", so that's a + for rad, storm & ta.
Ill / FF looks well together (force bubbles & illusion summoned entities). Kind of a concept thing I guess.
But mainly what goes well with Ill is haste, debuffs & extra controls, synergy wise (you can always use a buffing set for "group synergy", there will just be a lesser primary/secondary synergy).
Which means rad is excellent, and ta & storm are nice too.
Kin works too, as the "group synergy" from just kin is so insane (you'll always have teams looking for you, whatever your primary, as a /kin troller), and the self haste is GREAT for PA.
My Ill is Storm, and I find him quite strong. I have quite a bit of storm experience though, might not be your thing if you don't know storm well.
Quote:
Here's Local Man's previously mentioned guide. As for a build, I got to 50 mostly using the build in this old guide. It's pre-IO ( and a little hard to read in places after the forum move ), but useful for early on when you probably won't be using IOs anyway. The main difference is that with unlimited jetpacks around the corner I'd put Fly off until 22 to fit Stamina in at 20. The builds start in post #6 if you are interested.|
Originally Posted by Shadows Strike
Can i get a sample build? and is there any other secondarys that mesh well with Ill?
|
As for other secondaries; Trick Arrow is very good, as is Storm. /Rad is probably the easiest to use, arguably strongest and what I'd recommend for your first though.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Thorm
Ill's main power is Phantom Army. Main issue being it has a hefty recharge preventing you from using it all the time.
So sets that provide haste to the user are quite popular (rad & kin). As long as PA is up for every group, you basically don't need more control... Thing is kin is mostly a buffing set and PA isn't buffable. Also phantasm uses energy attacks and will sometimes knock targets away which can become quite a pain with powers like transfusion & transference, even Fulcrum Shift if torrent just hits a bunch with KB... Pretty rare, but highly annoying. Also as Ill doesn't have a reliable way to setup containment for AOE ownage with FS, people will often pick other sets for kins. Still the haste kin provides makes it a nice secondary for Ill just because of PA. Rad having awesome debuffs and PA being invulnerable tanks means some Ill/Rads can solo AVs, and GMs, which made the combination highly popular, even if only a tiny number can achieve that (requires good IOs). Other than haste sets, secondaries providing debuffs instead of buffs are doing great with PA (TA, Storm). Ill/Storm is famous for being the most chaos oriented combo in game, also the master of "summons" as you have a lot of pets & pseudo pets to summon. Secondaries providing some control are also popular as Ill doesn't have much "hard control", so that's a + for rad, storm & ta. Ill / FF looks well together (force bubbles & illusion summoned entities). Kind of a concept thing I guess. But mainly what goes well with Ill is haste, debuffs & extra controls, synergy wise (you can always use a buffing set for "group synergy", there will just be a lesser primary/secondary synergy). Which means rad is excellent, and ta & storm are nice too. Kin works too, as the "group synergy" from just kin is so insane (you'll always have teams looking for you, whatever your primary, as a /kin troller), and the self haste is GREAT for PA. My Ill is Storm, and I find him quite strong. I have quite a bit of storm experience though, might not be your thing if you don't know storm well. |
I'd agree with most of this.
My question to you would be what do you want to use it for?
If it's for AV's etc I'd say go with /Rad or /Storm although other debuff combos would also work well /Cold I imagine will be a popular AV killler when it comes out.
The PA/debuff combo is very effective for strong single target
For normal PVE /Kinetics is a very good combo and combined with /Stone IMO is the best PVE controller.
The playstyle it completely different to the others - it's basically a Scrapptroller.
Kinetics will give you:
Perma PA on a relatively cheap budget
Ability to fill you End bar at will
Heal yourself for over 400HP every few seconds
60% recharge on all of your powers
From a playstyle perpective my Ill/Kin/Stone is played in melee all of the time.
GI keeps me perma invis/stealth and lowers my threat level
Perma PA pull the aggro and deal damage
Spooky locks down the mobs
The majority of damage is dealt by myself through:
Fissure - this AoE does good damage and has a reliable stun that sets up containment for double damge - also has kd for extra control.
Seismic Smash for massive single target damage and a mag 4 hold.
All of this augmented by Fulcram Shift, Siphon Power and Siphon Speed means that you are the main damage dealer not PA.
The Knock back from Phantasm can be easily negated by positioning yourself at the far side of the mob, any KB from Phantasm will take the target towards you not away - this postioning will also mean that Phantasm moves into melee for FS and other buffs.
Ill/Kin/stone is a very effective combo that solos missions faster than my Ill/Storm/Ice and is capable of soloing 8 man missions.
I've often out survived tanks and outdamaged scrappers - if you like the idea of a Scrapptroller I strongly recommend Ill/Kin/Stone.
If you want a more traditional at range Controller I'd go with /Storm or /Rad especially if you want to solo AV's.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Quote:
Storm can also be played in melee, especially with //stone as Thunderclap provides control + containment on minions, + stack with fissure for the rest, but it doesn't come close to kin for recharge (perma PA is just that good) and end recovery (storm is quite heavy on end, while kin is basically free end once you get transferrence). Also storm has no self healing.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
I've often out survived tanks and outdamaged scrappers - if you like the idea of a Scrapptroller I strongly recommend Ill/Kin/Stone.
If you want a more traditional at range Controller I'd go with /Storm or /Rad especially if you want to solo AV's. |
Storm on the other hand provides debuffs, and dmg on his own (though kin dmg buffs are SO good that it's not really a benefit to storm there).
What I like is the slow from storm with disorient (snow storm + freezing rain) as the roaming on disoriented mobs can be a bit of a pain.
What I also really like from kin is the runspeed bonus attached to siphon speed. The recharge is talked about much, but the run speed bonus is very nice to have, makes gameplay all that more fluid, especially when your team has speed boost and not you, it sucks running at regular speed.
Quote:
Illusion -- my favorite primary in the game. So far, I have Ill/Rad, Ill/Storm and Ill/TA at 50, with a second Ill/Rad, Ill/Kin and Ill/Therm on the way. No matter which secondary you choose, I suggest you take a look at my Ill/Rad guide, linked in my sig. It has a ton of information about the game in general, controllers in general and useful info for anyone using either the Illusion primary or Radiation Secondary. Mostly, I compiled a lot of information that other great folks around here have put together.|
Originally Posted by Shadows Strike
Hi iam new to the fourms and ive been playing for 9 months
Illusion Control looks realy fun and powerful, but i don't know what secondary to pick. Some secondarys i was thinking of are -Kinetics -Force Field Can i get some help? |
No question that Radiation has the best synergy with Illusion. There are several reasons, but the easiest is to look at Illusion's best power, Phantom Army. PA are a set of three invulnerable pets that last for one minute and taunt the foes, drawing the damage to themselves. PA can't be buffed, so the only way to make them better is by using debuffs on the foes. Defense Debuffs are like an accuracy buff--the PA will hit more often. Resistance Debuffs are like a damage buff--the PA will do more damage when they hit. Finally, you most of all want Recharge, to get PA out there as much as possible. Radiation is the ONLY secondary that provides a Recharge buff to you and Defense and Resistance Debuffs to make PA better.
There are several other reasons that Rad works so well with Illusion -- Except for Flash, Illusion is a ranged set. And except for EM Pulse (a similar power to Flash) and Choking Cloud (which I suggest you skip), Rad is a ranged set. Rad allows you to set many of your key powers and then focus on other things. And Rad has a self-heal, a nice team buff and a rez, plus some control powers to make Illusion better.
I would put Ill/Storm just a little behind Ill/Rad -- probably slightly better for solo and small teams, but not as good for large teams or general purpose. It has great debuffs but no Recharge buff. Storm adds some nice damage in upper levels, and the chaos from Storm's knockback can increase your safety solo but frustrate teams unless you know how to play Storm well.
Illusion/Trick Arrow is a nice combo for solo or team play. I found the playstyle to be quite different, pretty much always from range. It even more relied upon the distraction of Phantom Army to allow shooting the Debuff and control arrows from range. No Recharge and No self-heal. Make sure you choose either the Magic or Tech origin to be able to light the Oil Slick Arrow.
Ill/Therm is a nice team support build, but lacks debuffs until the upper levels and has no Recharge buff. There isn't much in the Therm secondary to make Phantom Army better, but you get a self-heal.
Ill/Kin gives you a Recharge buff but no Defense or Resistance Debuffs, and the great team buff of Fulcrum Shift doesn't work on Phantom Army. Both Illusion and Kinetics are great powersets, but they have some synergy problems together.
Ill/Emp makes a great battlefield healer, but Empathy provides no Recharge buff or debuffs. Ill/Sonic has Resistance debuffs, but no Recharge buff or Defense Debuffs -- but you can put one of the Resistance debuffs anchored on Phantom Army. Ill/FF is a nice team character, but Force Fields offers nothing to make PA better and there is really no synergy between the powersets -- you can be an Illusionist and a Force Fielder, but the two don't really interact.
There is my summary of the secondaries for Illusion -- and others have different opinions. Illusion is a great set and really works well with any secondary -- but some have more synergy than others.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Neither Freezing Rain nor Snow Storm provide a disorient (same thing as a stun). Are you talking about the Recharge debuff? Or the occasional knockdown in Freezing Rain?|
Originally Posted by Thorm
What I like is the slow from storm with disorient (snow storm + freezing rain) as the roaming on disoriented mobs can be a bit of a pain.
|
Thunderclap provides a Mag 2 Stun (minions only), and Tornado has a stun while it throws foes all over the place. Thunderclap is nice to use to stack stuns with a teammates who have AoE stun powers. But alone, Ill/Storm doesn't have another stun to stack with T'clap to make it more effective. Fire, Earth and Grav are better for that.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Was talking about TC and/or fissure disorient. Fissure has some KD though, but non immob'd / non slowed disoriented mobs get on my nerves... So as Ill cannot immob, I like having area slows to limit the drunken wandering.
|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Neither Freezing Rain nor Snow Storm provide a disorient (same thing as a stun). Are you talking about the Recharge debuff? Or the occasional knockdown in Freezing Rain?
|
Quote:
OK, sorry. It was not clear from your original post that you were talking about the stun in Fissue.|
Originally Posted by Thorm
Was talking about TC and/or fissure disorient. Fissure has some KD though, but non immob'd / non slowed disoriented mobs get on my nerves... So as Ill cannot immob, I like having area slows to limit the drunken wandering.
|
One of the biggest problems with Ill/Storm is the lack of an AoE Immobilize. To some degree, Mind has the same problem, and Gravity has it to a lesser degree. Without an AoE Immobilize with -knockback, Tornado is a pet of pure chaos instead of a great source of damage to anything that can be knocked back. Add to that problem the lack of a self-heal, and the extra skill it takes to play Ill/Storm well, and that's why I rank it below Radiation.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
I'm not sure I'd describe fissures disorient as "reliable"...I'd say its more like "possible".
| Fissure - this AoE does good damage and has a reliable stun that sets up containment for double damge - also has kd for extra control. |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
Grav is fine to stop the disoriented wandering, but still cannot make use of Tornado all the time either.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
OK, sorry. It was not clear from your original post that you were talking about the stun in Fissue.
One of the biggest problems with Ill/Storm is the lack of an AoE Immobilize. To some degree, Mind has the same problem, and Gravity has it to a lesser degree. Without an AoE Immobilize with -knockback, Tornado is a pet of pure chaos instead of a great source of damage to anything that can be knocked back. Add to that problem the lack of a self-heal, and the extra skill it takes to play Ill/Storm well, and that's why I rank it below Radiation. |
Holds do have the -KB though, so I still use tornado more with grav (helpful solo to kill bosses for example), but it's nothing like earth or fire /storm immob + tornado, that's for sure!
Rad is indeed much easier to play, and has more synergy with Ill than storm imo.
I still prefer storm myself (not from an efficiency or synergy point of view, just gameplay wise), but I'll have to confess I don't have a significant ill/rad (rad becomes good too early, and too popular for me).
Kinda fun having the "master of chaos" / "master of summons" build, and I'm a storm addict anyway.
Quote:
I expect it to stun more often than not - I ran some tests yesterday after your comment and it would usually stun two out of three minions, would you not call that reliable?
|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
I'm not sure I'd describe fissures disorient as "reliable"...I'd say its more like "possible".
|
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Quote:
I agree with your comments on the synergy between Illusion and the various secondaries however it fails to take into account the Epics.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Illusion -- my favorite primary in the game. So far, I have Ill/Rad, Ill/Storm and Ill/TA at 50, with a second Ill/Rad, Ill/Kin and Ill/Therm on the way. No matter which secondary you choose, I suggest you take a look at my Ill/Rad guide, linked in my sig. It has a ton of information about the game in general, controllers in general and useful info for anyone using either the Illusion primary or Radiation Secondary. Mostly, I compiled a lot of information that other great folks around here have put together.
No question that Radiation has the best synergy with Illusion. There are several reasons, but the easiest is to look at Illusion's best power, Phantom Army. PA are a set of three invulnerable pets that last for one minute and taunt the foes, drawing the damage to themselves. PA can't be buffed, so the only way to make them better is by using debuffs on the foes. Defense Debuffs are like an accuracy buff--the PA will hit more often. Resistance Debuffs are like a damage buff--the PA will do more damage when they hit. Finally, you most of all want Recharge, to get PA out there as much as possible. Radiation is the ONLY secondary that provides a Recharge buff to you and Defense and Resistance Debuffs to make PA better. There are several other reasons that Rad works so well with Illusion -- Except for Flash, Illusion is a ranged set. And except for EM Pulse (a similar power to Flash) and Choking Cloud (which I suggest you skip), Rad is a ranged set. Rad allows you to set many of your key powers and then focus on other things. And Rad has a self-heal, a nice team buff and a rez, plus some control powers to make Illusion better. I would put Ill/Storm just a little behind Ill/Rad -- probably slightly better for solo and small teams, but not as good for large teams or general purpose. It has great debuffs but no Recharge buff. Storm adds some nice damage in upper levels, and the chaos from Storm's knockback can increase your safety solo but frustrate teams unless you know how to play Storm well. Illusion/Trick Arrow is a nice combo for solo or team play. I found the playstyle to be quite different, pretty much always from range. It even more relied upon the distraction of Phantom Army to allow shooting the Debuff and control arrows from range. No Recharge and No self-heal. Make sure you choose either the Magic or Tech origin to be able to light the Oil Slick Arrow. Ill/Therm is a nice team support build, but lacks debuffs until the upper levels and has no Recharge buff. There isn't much in the Therm secondary to make Phantom Army better, but you get a self-heal. Ill/Kin gives you a Recharge buff but no Defense or Resistance Debuffs, and the great team buff of Fulcrum Shift doesn't work on Phantom Army. Both Illusion and Kinetics are great powersets, but they have some synergy problems together. Ill/Emp makes a great battlefield healer, but Empathy provides no Recharge buff or debuffs. Ill/Sonic has Resistance debuffs, but no Recharge buff or Defense Debuffs -- but you can put one of the Resistance debuffs anchored on Phantom Army. Ill/FF is a nice team character, but Force Fields offers nothing to make PA better and there is really no synergy between the powersets -- you can be an Illusionist and a Force Fielder, but the two don't really interact. There is my summary of the secondaries for Illusion -- and others have different opinions. Illusion is a great set and really works well with any secondary -- but some have more synergy than others. |
The PA plus debuff is fine when talking about taking down a single hard target like an AV but is less applicable when your talking about normal PVE where your moving from mob to mob at a good rate.
I have no doubt that my Ill/Kin/Stone would clear normal unyielding/invicible missions faster than any other Ill/* combo.
PA is permenant but merely supplements the damage from the controller itself.
The build is relativily cheap but in standard missions runs at over 200% global recharge and the damage is boosted to between 200% and 300% which it delivers through Fissure and Siesmic Smash.
Between Fissure and Siesmic Smash most of the mobs are stunned for containment too.
So although I agree with your comments on the synergy between Illusion and the various secondaries it is a very blinkered view and in my opinion not that applicable to normal PVE.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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Not really, as you've no control over which 2 out of 3 (actually it's 1.5 out of 3 really) it will stun. It stuns 50% of the time basically. It's great as a follow-up move following a more reliable control (especially an initial AOE stun, my Fire/Rad loves it as a follow-up Smash-and-Mez move) but on its own, if there was a Sapper or something in a spawn I wouldn't like to be relying soley on it to mez him.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
I expect it to stun more often than not - I ran some tests yesterday after your comment and it would usually stun two out of three minions, would you not call that reliable?
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It's my favourite Epic Power, especially on a toon with other stun mezzes for it to follow on from. But soley as a control power it isn't really that reliable. Following on from Thunderstrike would be the way to use it on an Illusion/Storm, if you like to use Thunderstrike.
Personally on my Illusion/Storm I went with Ice Mastery for Hibernate, Ice Storm and Frost Breath. Those 3 suit her ranged, attacking from the edges while chaos reigns in the middle of the fight approach. They suited my playstyle for her more than the more melee based approach the Earth Epic gives you.
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On my Ill/Kin/Stone the stun is used for containment/damage bonus so I don't really mind which ones it hits, if there's a Sapper or other high priority target he'll be dealt with by a better form of control such as Seismic Smash or Blind.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
Not really, as you've no control over which 2 out of 3 (actually it's 1.5 out of 3 really) it will stun. It stuns 50% of the time basically. It's great as a follow-up move following a more reliable control (especially an initial AOE stun, my Fire/Rad loves it as a follow-up Smash-and-Mez move) but on its own, if there was a Sapper or something in a spawn I wouldn't like to be relying soley on it to mez him.
It's my favourite Epic Power, especially on a toon with other stun mezzes for it to follow on from. But soley as a control power it isn't really that reliable. Following on from Thunderstrike would be the way to use it on an Illusion/Storm, if you like to use Thunderstrike. Personally on my Illusion/Storm I went with Ice Mastery for Hibernate, Ice Storm and Frost Breath. Those 3 suit her ranged, attacking from the edges while chaos reigns in the middle of the fight approach. They suited my playstyle for her more than the more melee based approach the Earth Epic gives you. |
I agree on Ill/Storm I've got the same power choices.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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Minor note : it's "Thunder Clap" (not Strike).|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
Following on from Thunderstrike would be the way to use it on an Illusion/Storm, if you like to use Thunderstrike.
Personally on my Illusion/Storm I went with Ice Mastery for Hibernate, Ice Storm and Frost Breath. Those 3 suit her ranged, attacking from the edges while chaos reigns in the middle of the fight approach. They suited my playstyle for her more than the more melee based approach the Earth Epic gives you. |
Went with Ice Mastery too on the Ill/Storm (figured with the limited containment, I'll go with Ice Storm).
On my Fire/Storm I went Stone Mastery though, love Flashfire -> Fissure!
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Well, I admit that I was looking at the entire journey of leveling up a controller, rather than the limited view of how a fully built-out controller would be at level 50 doing solo missions. I'm not sure I would agree that "is a very blinkered view." I like to look at the entire journey and see how a controller plays while leveling up, solo and on large and small teams. If I don't like my controller at level 25, I'm never going to get to 50.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
I agree with your comments on the synergy between Illusion and the various secondaries however it fails to take into account the Epics.
The PA plus debuff is fine when talking about taking down a single hard target like an AV but is less applicable when your talking about normal PVE where your moving from mob to mob at a good rate. I have no doubt that my Ill/Kin/Stone would clear normal unyielding/invicible missions faster than any other Ill/* combo. PA is permenant but merely supplements the damage from the controller itself. The build is relativily cheap but in standard missions runs at over 200% global recharge and the damage is boosted to between 200% and 300% which it delivers through Fissure and Siesmic Smash. Between Fissure and Siesmic Smash most of the mobs are stunned for containment too. So although I agree with your comments on the synergy between Illusion and the various secondaries it is a very blinkered view and in my opinion not that applicable to normal PVE. |
What you have described would apply to most */Kinetics controllers -- Fulcrum Shift + APP AoE damage. It is a controller entirely focused on damage. What you suggest takes the single best power in the illusion set, Phantom Army, and makes it mostly irrelevant, but only applies in the end game.
Ill/Kin is a late developing build, and has no AoE damage until the APP powers, so you only have a single target attack to take advantage of Siphon Power until you get Phantasm. But in order to take advantage of Transfusion, Transference and Fulcrum Shift, you need to be in melee . . . but Phantasm acts as a body guard with his knockback and tries to knock foes near you away. With Phantasm out, your target for your siphon powers will often get knocked out of range. The only solutions are to not use Phantasm or to go so fast that Phanty can't catch up -- in which case he has no chance of getting the buff from Fulcrum Shift.
Of course, neither of those damage buffs or other buffs help Phantom Army. The core of an Illusion controller is is distraction -- Illusion has weak controlls because it can distract so well -- and PA do it best. Kinetics is an "in your face" offensive set with team buffs and almost no defense. Sure, an Illusion/Kinetics controller can be very effective, because both sets are great sets. But if you want to experience Illusion in particular, like the OP seems to want to do, then Kinetics is not the best set to enhance Illusion.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Hi iam new to the fourms and ive been playing for 9 months
Illusion Control looks realy fun and powerful, but i don't know what secondary to pick.
Some secondarys i was thinking of are
-Kinetics
-Force Field
Can i get some help?