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Posts
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Quote:Earth Storm is good, the issue I see for a newbie is the lack of damage before 35.All this talk about Earth/Storm.. feel like I'm missing out with my Earth/Kin, lol. I've never tried Storm before and want to. For a Storm newbie, would Plant pair with it better than Earth? Or does it just depend on who's behind the wheel?
35 is tornado, then lightning storm at 38, then epic attacks at 41+, all good there. But early on it can be a bit of a pain to solo.
It's very good as controls, as all earth, especially since you can stack thunderclap on top of stalagmites for mag 5 stun (nice!).
Cages are great to use tornado / lightning storm / hurricane more easily cause it'll remove the knockback.
The -defense from earth (basically everything) and the -defense from storm (freezing rain & tornado) will stack too, which is certainly overkill, but still fun to have, no one will have bad accuracy in your team ever.
You can summon many powers behind corners to avoid alphas with quick sands, earthquake, volcanic gazes, freezing rain & tornado. Not very significant in the AE farms, but I don't expect these to last forever.
You're good at slowing. Not ice/storm like, but quicksand is great in addition to snow storm & freezing rain.
You're good at knockdown patches : EQ & FR.
Really quite a lot of stacking & synergies. Also both are great sets animation & sound wise. You WILL be noticed.
Now I haven't played Plant/Storm but I expect it to be very strong too. quite a different beast altogether, but should be very nice.
Steamy Mist to help landing Seeds of Confusion, then FR / Roots / Creepers and you're wiping everything. Probably inferior for battle control, but better for soloing / farming. Also will be doing dmg much earlier allowing for a better solo experience when you can't team. -
Quote:Mine is pretty much the same, that's why I pick the single target cage too and hit the one I missed, then tornado!If you are using Tornado, it's best to reapply stone cages as often as it comes up. You will probably miss one mob on each application, so unless you want your Tornado haring off after mobs you missed, you need to keep throwing cages to guarantee overlap within the 10 ( or 12 ) second KB suppression. I tend to only pull out Tornado on small Teams, or solo, because on large teams, you will miss a mob, and Tornado will follow that guy into the next spawn. Every. Single. Time. Well pretty much every time
Other people report different experience of this, but mine has been as stated. -
Quote:Oh they do.Cages won't negate the KB from Tornado. Tornado's KB is pretty beastly. i've seen it toss around double-caged minions with ease. It does seem to minimize KB distance, tho'.
-KB only lasts 10s though (edit: actually, might be 12s, still much shorter than the immob part), and not the whole cages duration.
So reapply often enough (especially if you use long activation powers and or risk getting controlled). -
Quote:Actually it has smaller radius than other stuns : 15ft instead of 25ft making the area about 2.75x smaller. Which sucks quite a bit when you're used to "regular" stuns.And if you dont take Propel there goes your damage pretty much. Wormhole is, IMO, the best AoE Stun in the game. Large area, decently long Stun, frickin Mag 4 Teleport! It's like herding for dummies.
Also range slotting is much better for this than other stuns if you wanna hit from behind corners, which makes slotting slightly harder.
Still, WH is Grav's signature power imo. If you don't want it, you don't want grav! -
Quote:Definitely not a must have, but still a very nice hold, iirc it has fast activation and large radius.Now, is it just me, or does Cinders not seem that appealing to me? I mean, I want to like it, but the low Accuracy and long Recharge are a huge turn-off for me.
Also quite usable if you're in melee for hotfeet already.
Sometimes comes in handy for adds / ambush when FF is down, and/or to 1-2 hold a boss with char. Also makes controlling groups with more than 1 boss much easier.
But it's not as important as FF to a fire troller. WAY less important. -
Quote:Didn't know that, just remember the "details" on the power at some points and noticed a difference in the debuffs while I thought they were the same.The duration of the slow is the same. The strength of all the debuffs (including the slow) is stronger for defender Freezing Rain than defender Sleet because the devs failed to create a defender version of the Sleet pet. Cold defenders summon the same pet as corruptors. Controllers summon a different version of Freezing Rain which has debuff values equal to defender/corruptor Sleet.
Pretty sure I saw sleet's slow as kind fo decreasing (1st 20s slowing by XX% and next 20s for YY%, YY being lower than XX), while FR had a 30s ZZ% slow (with ZZ inbetween XX & YY).
Might be wrong, didn't pay close attention to it. -
Quote:Also you can use earth cages (single and group targetted) for their -KB and let loose with tornado & LS if you so want (I also find it easier to hurricane caged ennemies when they can't run due to the immob and can't be KB'd because of the -KB, just the smooth repel & -to hit for easy mode hurricane), just remember they'll also negate EQ & FR's KD.Storm take some work and skill to play well. You have to learn when to use certain powers and when not to use them, especially on larger teams. The knockback powers can knock foes off of your Targetted AoE powers like Quicksand, Earthquake and Volcanic Gasses -- but on the other hand, you can use those knockback powers (Gale and Hurricane in particular) to push foes back INTO your AoEs too.
Quote:Your only team buff is a single-target heal/partial mez protection in O2 Boost.
Quote:On the other hand, Storm adds more damage (at level 35 and 38) than any other secondary.
My vote is for storm too, though earth/ will be AWESOME with everything, it's just that great a set. -
Quote:Minor note : it's "Thunder Clap" (not Strike).Following on from Thunderstrike would be the way to use it on an Illusion/Storm, if you like to use Thunderstrike.
Personally on my Illusion/Storm I went with Ice Mastery for Hibernate, Ice Storm and Frost Breath. Those 3 suit her ranged, attacking from the edges while chaos reigns in the middle of the fight approach. They suited my playstyle for her more than the more melee based approach the Earth Epic gives you.
Went with Ice Mastery too on the Ill/Storm (figured with the limited containment, I'll go with Ice Storm).
On my Fire/Storm I went Stone Mastery though, love Flashfire -> Fissure! -
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Quote:I think you must have ran out of luck then...Yeah, I did use Energy Torrent in the past, but I found myself running out of endurance even BEFORE finishing off a single Minion. Thus, I stopped using it.
Numbers I pull from game is for base :
Power bolt : DMG 9.3, END 5.2 => DPE 1.79
Power Blast : DMG 15.25, END 8.5 => DPE 1.79
Energy Torrent : DMG 8.93, END 11.96 => DPE 0.75
Power Burst : DMG 19.72, END 10.4 => DPE 1.90
Explosive Blast : DMG 8.37, END 15.18 => DPE 0.55
If you hit 2 targets with torrent it'll have a DPE of 1.5, but if you hit 3 you'll get 2.25 which is above any of the ST blasts.
Explosive Blast has pretty crappy DPE though, you'll need 4 targets to do better than ST blasts with it.
But using torrent vs 3 targets or more should improve your endurance usage efficiency, and also provide you with more mitigation, allowing you to use toggles less. -
Quote:An AOE heal has nothing to do with most toggles, it uses a lot of end, of course.I agree with this, and go one better. Using your primaries seems to be even worse than attacks. Currently I am playing an Empath and even with 2 End reduction in Healing Aura, this uses more endurance than my attacks. Yet it is my PRIMARY power.
It's not a primary / secondary issue.
Toggles are often held responsible for end usage while attacks use way more (ok maybe not toggles like mind TK, but most). -
Quote:Grav is fine to stop the disoriented wandering, but still cannot make use of Tornado all the time either.OK, sorry. It was not clear from your original post that you were talking about the stun in Fissue.
One of the biggest problems with Ill/Storm is the lack of an AoE Immobilize. To some degree, Mind has the same problem, and Gravity has it to a lesser degree. Without an AoE Immobilize with -knockback, Tornado is a pet of pure chaos instead of a great source of damage to anything that can be knocked back. Add to that problem the lack of a self-heal, and the extra skill it takes to play Ill/Storm well, and that's why I rank it below Radiation.
Holds do have the -KB though, so I still use tornado more with grav (helpful solo to kill bosses for example), but it's nothing like earth or fire /storm immob + tornado, that's for sure!
Rad is indeed much easier to play, and has more synergy with Ill than storm imo.
I still prefer storm myself (not from an efficiency or synergy point of view, just gameplay wise), but I'll have to confess I don't have a significant ill/rad (rad becomes good too early, and too popular for me).
Kinda fun having the "master of chaos" / "master of summons" build, and I'm a storm addict anyway. -
Was talking about TC and/or fissure disorient. Fissure has some KD though, but non immob'd / non slowed disoriented mobs get on my nerves... So as Ill cannot immob, I like having area slows to limit the drunken wandering.
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Quote:Don't have the numbers here but I think most AOE start to beat single target blasts efficiency wise from 3 targets and up.I hit them with Dispersion Bomb, then move in and blast them one at a time (since the AOEs use so much endurance). By the time I defeat one minion, I'm at a sliver of endurance, and I have to stop fighting. If I PFF, I'll be fine. If not, I'll be chewed up for several minutes while the endurance SLOWLY recovers. Doing this for every minion is VERY tedious.
Too much end for 1 or 2, but good for 3.
Been a while I didn't check precisely, but you might want too.
Also double check what toggle you really need to take down 3 minions, as other said (even if they use less end than attacks, using a lot of toggle still adds on top of attacks). -
Quote:Storm can also be played in melee, especially with //stone as Thunderclap provides control + containment on minions, + stack with fissure for the rest, but it doesn't come close to kin for recharge (perma PA is just that good) and end recovery (storm is quite heavy on end, while kin is basically free end once you get transferrence). Also storm has no self healing.I've often out survived tanks and outdamaged scrappers - if you like the idea of a Scrapptroller I strongly recommend Ill/Kin/Stone.
If you want a more traditional at range Controller I'd go with /Storm or /Rad especially if you want to solo AV's.
Storm on the other hand provides debuffs, and dmg on his own (though kin dmg buffs are SO good that it's not really a benefit to storm there).
What I like is the slow from storm with disorient (snow storm + freezing rain) as the roaming on disoriented mobs can be a bit of a pain.
What I also really like from kin is the runspeed bonus attached to siphon speed. The recharge is talked about much, but the run speed bonus is very nice to have, makes gameplay all that more fluid, especially when your team has speed boost and not you, it sucks running at regular speed. -
Quote:Yeah this is great when you have the range right, I used to, but lately I've been playing non storm toons and I'm not as accurate as before it seems.Gale - I use this all the time in teams but it needs practice, once you get used to it's range you can drop back a bit so that you only hit he mobs coming towards the team and blow them back into Freezing Rain.
Also pay attention when you slot any range enhancement in gale, changes things a lot! (ahem, slotted a range once, now I think it's better without) -
I certainly think it's a great team combo!
Sure if you use every power as soon as their recharge is up it's not gonna work great. Both of these sets, and especially storm have very strong powers that require a situational use.
But with PA and FR, you can just own every group you face, these two powers are insane!
Then you have some other extremely nice team powers like snow stom, deceive, hurricane (I mostly use it as a positioning tool but it sure is a nice debuff too), even gale to quickly toss a whole group into a corner, steamy mist, terror, group invis, etc.
Really really powerful powers, but requires you to pay a lot fo attention to positioning, and kb.
I just love tossing autohit snow storm & tornado on MOG'd PP, and then dropping FR and finishing them off.
Tornado is great for KB resistant foes like AVs, I get much less from it than on my fire/storm, but I still picked and slotted the power, it's just that good for me. And I very rarely use it on the ill...
Just don't be the pain in the *** stormy that runs into every group with hurricane on & tornado summoned... Instead, always work on making a tight pack out of every group, under your FR, and teams will love you. -
Ill's main power is Phantom Army. Main issue being it has a hefty recharge preventing you from using it all the time.
So sets that provide haste to the user are quite popular (rad & kin).
As long as PA is up for every group, you basically don't need more control...
Thing is kin is mostly a buffing set and PA isn't buffable. Also phantasm uses energy attacks and will sometimes knock targets away which can become quite a pain with powers like transfusion & transference, even Fulcrum Shift if torrent just hits a bunch with KB...
Pretty rare, but highly annoying.
Also as Ill doesn't have a reliable way to setup containment for AOE ownage with FS, people will often pick other sets for kins.
Still the haste kin provides makes it a nice secondary for Ill just because of PA.
Rad having awesome debuffs and PA being invulnerable tanks means some Ill/Rads can solo AVs, and GMs, which made the combination highly popular, even if only a tiny number can achieve that (requires good IOs).
Other than haste sets, secondaries providing debuffs instead of buffs are doing great with PA (TA, Storm).
Ill/Storm is famous for being the most chaos oriented combo in game, also the master of "summons" as you have a lot of pets & pseudo pets to summon.
Secondaries providing some control are also popular as Ill doesn't have much "hard control", so that's a + for rad, storm & ta.
Ill / FF looks well together (force bubbles & illusion summoned entities). Kind of a concept thing I guess.
But mainly what goes well with Ill is haste, debuffs & extra controls, synergy wise (you can always use a buffing set for "group synergy", there will just be a lesser primary/secondary synergy).
Which means rad is excellent, and ta & storm are nice too.
Kin works too, as the "group synergy" from just kin is so insane (you'll always have teams looking for you, whatever your primary, as a /kin troller), and the self haste is GREAT for PA.
My Ill is Storm, and I find him quite strong. I have quite a bit of storm experience though, might not be your thing if you don't know storm well. -
Would really need to know what type of hero you'd like to play...
They're is no best AT.
If you have no game style preference, I'd say the scrapper part was quite a good idea, it's great damage, quite sturdy, and you'll get that heroic feeling for sure!
Just don't start with an Illusion / Storm if you're totally new to COH.
Whatever you choose, check their forum and ask a couple questions there first, in order to avoid the hardest combination, and pick something that fit your style & concept. -
Quote:Not like it forces the fire troller to melee range in order to use it as opposed to hotfeet, but I just felt like adding it.*slaps self several times*
Two. Two melee range powers.
*slaps self some more*
I always forget about the controller AoE/PBAoE Holds. Typically because I've got better tools available (EMP Arrow is a prime example), but I do need to remember that they're there, at least. >.< -
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Coming late in that dicussion but I'd say there are different things to consider for a new vigilance.
I'd see at least three important parts to design against :- Team size : solo, multiple players in team, raid (multiple teams)
- Current "success" of the "team" : owning, normal, struggling
- Def primary.
Then one important check would be considering defender stacking (or stacking with trollers / corrs).
I've played long ago in a team of 8 defenders, all with a different primary, and we STEAMROLLED everything, like no other team I've witnessed (might be a lack of exp on my side though). Nothing could touch us and we blazed through everything like it was butter.
I think a new vigilance should work for all team sizes, and their success, and all defender primaries, while not overpowering def stacking situations.
Might have a different impact depending on team size & team success, and also on the primary, but ideally it should have an effect.
The current vigilance seems does not work at all solo, and does nothing for a team "owning" content, doesn't make it faster in any way. Also has a very different impact depending on the primary (defender are NOT all empats).
Even then, in the situation it seems designed for the most (struggling team) it is quite underperforming... Some primary get barely any help from it, sure they benefit on their secondary some, which is nice, but doesn't really fit the "vigilant defender" much, imo.
Compared to that, the troller containment works for all team sizes, all trollers primaries and wether the team owns or not. Which is good, imo.
Also slightly better with stacking but not overpowering.
Scrapper inherent, same deal. Tanker, also.
Some are not designed as well (as in they don't help every situation, but it often means they have improved value in some).
I don't have a good suggestion for a new vigilance myself, but I'd really love one working for all defenders, and that would be at least "fun" if it can't be powerful. The current one is quite dull, on addition to be underperforming, imo. -
I tend to see more FF than sonics, TA or colds out there.
Storm is not used a bunch either, but I see some.
Emp is the one I see the most on defs followed by rad I'd say.
Kin is huge on trollers, but I don't see that many defs with it.
Dark is not much used either.
But I'd say sonic / cold / ta, not sure which, for the least used.
Then storm / dark / kin. Then rad. Then emp is easily the most used on defs for me. -
You can also access PI through a vanguard base, and I think through Ourobouros iirc.
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You *REALLY* want Tornado on a Fire/Storm imo, that's why I made mine, to be able to control and use Tornado all the time.
Stacking Tornado / Lightning Storm with hotfeet and imps is just awesome, thanks to fire cages (and of course FR). You really don't wanna miss that.