My Ill/Kin/Stone is 48, my Ill/Storm is 50. Honestly I find the Ill/Storm much more survivable in pretty much every situation one could throw at her, so I'm going to have to agree with Local - both for the whole ride to 50, and functioning in multiple environments, my Ill/Storm outperforms my Ill/Kin. It's also not nearly as busy ( not saying it's not busy, but Ill/Kin is like being on speed, crack, meth, and redbull all a the same time - it's exhausting ).
Illusion is a great set, anything would pair well with it. Illusion/Storm though is really the cat's meow of Illusion controllers.
In the hands of a good player, there is nothing that plays poorly with illusion.
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Firstly my apologies for the "very blinkered" comment - it sounded very rude when quoted back at me, that wasn't my intention.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Well, I admit that I was looking at the entire journey of leveling up a controller, rather than the limited view of how a fully built-out controller would be at level 50 doing solo missions. I'm not sure I would agree that "is a very blinkered view." I like to look at the entire journey and see how a controller plays while leveling up, solo and on large and small teams. If I don't like my controller at level 25, I'm never going to get to 50.
What you have described would apply to most */Kinetics controllers -- Fulcrum Shift + APP AoE damage. It is a controller entirely focused on damage. What you suggest takes the single best power in the illusion set, Phantom Army, and makes it mostly irrelevant, but only applies in the end game. Ill/Kin is a late developing build, and has no AoE damage until the APP powers, so you only have a single target attack to take advantage of Siphon Power until you get Phantasm. But in order to take advantage of Transfusion, Transference and Fulcrum Shift, you need to be in melee . . . but Phantasm acts as a body guard with his knockback and tries to knock foes near you away. With Phantasm out, your target for your siphon powers will often get knocked out of range. The only solutions are to not use Phantasm or to go so fast that Phanty can't catch up -- in which case he has no chance of getting the buff from Fulcrum Shift. Of course, neither of those damage buffs or other buffs help Phantom Army. The core of an Illusion controller is is distraction -- Illusion has weak controlls because it can distract so well -- and PA do it best. Kinetics is an "in your face" offensive set with team buffs and almost no defense. Sure, an Illusion/Kinetics controller can be very effective, because both sets are great sets. But if you want to experience Illusion in particular, like the OP seems to want to do, then Kinetics is not the best set to enhance Illusion. |
Personally I found the levelling pretty easy and on par with an Ill/Rad; where as the /Rad gets the debuffs, AM and small heal /Kin gets Siphon Speed for faster attacks/holds, PA out more often and a very large heal.
I had no trouble levelling either.
/Storm was slower to L16 (Freezing Rain) then once you get PA as well it just got better and better.
In regards to the KB you need to move to the far side of the mobs so that Phantasm is one side and you're the other. Any KB will take the target to you and not away so you wont miss out on any buffs. This will also pull Phantasm into melee for buffs.
On my Ill/Kin build I make full use of PA and the distraction that Illusion offers - it's the reason that the build is as survivable as it is.
I like to push the build as far as I can and enjoy soloing 8 man spawns, a squishy controller surviving in melee where a tank or scrapper might struggle.
The reason that I'm able to do this is Illusion pulling the aggro away from me.
GI - invis/stealth and a reduced threat level
Pets - 4 often 5 targetable pets out at once (4 are invulnerable) taking the aggro and doing good damage
Spooky - permenant stacking fear for locking down mobs inc bosses
Transfusion - massive amount of regen -over 400hp every few seconds
Transference - no End issues
Siphon power and Fulcram Shift - damage boost that scales with the mob size
Siphon Speed - 60% global recharge on all powers for perma PA on a small budget without gimping the build with mules.
My build makes very good use of PA it's the cornerstone, if I tried a large spawn without it I'd faceplant very quickly.
In some way's I'd say that an Ill/Kin gives a better Illusion experince than any other secondary in that Kinetics takes the primary and simply makes it better - faster recharge etc - as opposed to adding additional flashy powers.
Some of the other secondaries can overshadow Illusion at times - Storm in particular.
As I said, overall I agree with your comments on the synergy between the secondaries and Illusion but I do feel that you sell Kinetics short.
The KB is easily dealt with by the tactics discussed and makes it a non issue.
Phantasm can be buffed using the same tactics
The ultimate goal of all Illusion Controllers after all is permenant PA and Kinetics is the only secondary that allows this on a relative budget.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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Plus if you also leave Lightning Storm on one side and then TP to the other with Hurricane on you can play tennis with enemies. One of my favourite things to do with my Illusion/Storm. Make a ping-pong table out of a spawn, pushing them back into the meatgrinder (where you've cast PAs, Spectral Terror, Freezing Rain and Ice Storm).
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Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
/Storm was slower to L16 (Freezing Rain) then once you get PA as well it just got better and better.
In regards to the KB you need to move to the far side of the mobs so that Phantasm is one side and you're the other. Any KB will take the target to you and not away so you wont miss out on any buffs. This will also pull Phantasm into melee for buffs. |
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You're quite right the build is very busy and personally I find it fun, it won't be for every one though as it simply doesn't play like a standard controller.|
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat
My Ill/Kin/Stone is 48, my Ill/Storm is 50. Honestly I find the Ill/Storm much more survivable in pretty much every situation one could throw at her, so I'm going to have to agree with Local - both for the whole ride to 50, and functioning in multiple environments, my Ill/Storm outperforms my Ill/Kin. It's also not nearly as busy ( not saying it's not busy, but Ill/Kin is like being on speed, crack, meth, and redbull all a the same time - it's exhausting ).
Illusion is a great set, anything would pair well with it. Illusion/Storm though is really the cat's meow of Illusion controllers. |
I said it was a Scrapptroller but thinking about it I'd say a Brutetroller is a better analogy. Much like a Brute building and maintaining a Fury bar you rush from mob to mob spamming FS, SP and SS to maintain damage and recharge.
On the survivability side both /Storm and /Kin are good solo builds capable of running invinc missions.
If you took them into larger padded missions you would start to see some disparity between the two as the /Storm starts to pull more aggro.
I've got Aid self and Hibernate on mine but even these can be overwhelmed when pushed.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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From your post, it appears that you have a very effective character by leveraging all that Illusion and Kinetics can do. And a good, experienced player can develop great tactics to maximize the benefits of the powerset. You did a great job at explaining how you overcome some of the conflicts in the set.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon_EU
Firstly my apologies for the "very blinkered" comment - it sounded very rude when quoted back at me, that wasn't my intention.
Personally I found the levelling pretty easy and on par with an Ill/Rad; where as the /Rad gets the debuffs, AM and small heal /Kin gets Siphon Speed for faster attacks/holds, PA out more often and a very large heal. I had no trouble levelling either. /Storm was slower to L16 (Freezing Rain) then once you get PA as well it just got better and better. In regards to the KB you need to move to the far side of the mobs so that Phantasm is one side and you're the other. Any KB will take the target to you and not away so you wont miss out on any buffs. This will also pull Phantasm into melee for buffs. On my Ill/Kin build I make full use of PA and the distraction that Illusion offers - it's the reason that the build is as survivable as it is. I like to push the build as far as I can and enjoy soloing 8 man spawns, a squishy controller surviving in melee where a tank or scrapper might struggle. The reason that I'm able to do this is Illusion pulling the aggro away from me. GI - invis/stealth and a reduced threat level Pets - 4 often 5 targetable pets out at once (4 are invulnerable) taking the aggro and doing good damage Spooky - permenant stacking fear for locking down mobs inc bosses Transfusion - massive amount of regen -over 400hp every few seconds Transference - no End issues Siphon power and Fulcram Shift - damage boost that scales with the mob size Siphon Speed - 60% global recharge on all powers for perma PA on a small budget without gimping the build with mules. My build makes very good use of PA it's the cornerstone, if I tried a large spawn without it I'd faceplant very quickly. In some way's I'd say that an Ill/Kin gives a better Illusion experince than any other secondary in that Kinetics takes the primary and simply makes it better - faster recharge etc - as opposed to adding additional flashy powers. Some of the other secondaries can overshadow Illusion at times - Storm in particular. As I said, overall I agree with your comments on the synergy between the secondaries and Illusion but I do feel that you sell Kinetics short. The KB is easily dealt with by the tactics discussed and makes it a non issue. Phantasm can be buffed using the same tactics The ultimate goal of all Illusion Controllers after all is permenant PA and Kinetics is the only secondary that allows this on a relative budget. |
But my original post was suggesting to the OP what the best secondary might be for a player new to Controllers in general and Illusion in particular. No question that Kinetics is a great set -- very busy and can be frantic, and it takes some skill to play well and overcome the inherent conflicts with Illusion. For someone without quite that level of experience, I still suggest that Ill/Rad is the best choice. It is easy to play moderately well while you develop the skills for the more difficult and complex stuff. It gets many of its best powers early, so it doesn't mature so late in the build that a new player might lose interest. The Rad debuffs give a defensive benefit that can help survival that Kinetics doesn't have. Ill/Rad is a more flexible build, easily adjusted to more playstyles. And it isn't just "easy controling for beginners," as an Ill/Rad later becomes one of the most powerful builds in the game. While Kinetics may allow for a faster kill speed with its damage buffs, Radiation allows for a wider range of abilities and safety.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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i have a ill/ta, debuffs r good but not as free as rad
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Originally Posted by Shadows Strike
Can i get a sample build? and is there any other secondarys that mesh well with Ill?
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My vote is Illusion/radiation. I love mine for team or solo play. He was painfully boring early on, but really got fun later as you get your pets. It is amazingly safe, and a ton of fun to see how big of things you can tackle solo.
It's very strong due to you being able to make a team build with all the Mutation, Fallout and team oriented powers and then one with out them to solo.
Illusion/Radiation all the way, when the game first came out and before the build was popular I used it and still do. Its a good build with DeBuffs and PA. Also its nice for PvE and PvP depending on how you do it. I sure do PvP with mine in RV on Liberty, look me up..Darrius Illusio (Global too)
The two debuffs alone can make just about any opponent beatable. Combine the others and it's almost unfair. Add to this illusion's phantom army/ phantasm and you're close to unstoppable.
Ill/rad starts off a bit slow but it makes up for it fairly quickly.
(Just kidding, My Ill/Rad is one of my favorite characters. EXTREMELY strong. And loads of fun. I recommend it!)
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
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