I must concur, the lag in that mission is borderline insanity. I don't know what causes it, but some of the devs should try playing it. Then they can see what we mean. Gets real bad when trying to kill on top of the towers in mission 4 also.
For that mission, I believe it's pathing errors that the ambushes and patrols have issues with that causes the lag. When it happens, you can usually notice a very large group of foes bunched up in a corner somewhere, or caught up on plants.. usually on the other side of that archway.. which is why many people stay near the bridge at the beginning and pull the foes down the hill instead. That seems to prevent the ambushes from going in the "wrong direction" and causing the "lag-fest" you describe.
Personally.. I haven't had an issue with it since last year. I occasionally run into the "nova-lag" when somebody sets off a big explosion, and my guess would be that might have something to do with all the extra sound effects built into the Cimerorans, and large AoEs make them all grunt at the same time, and it hesitates.
I'm not saying that nothing is wrong, but it's certainly a manageable situation if you play it differently.. especially when you do the same thing every time and know it's coming.
I find a little prayer helps as well:
"Yea, tho I walk into the Valley of Lag, I shall fear no disconnect."
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So the entire gaming community except you have issues on this map? Care to stop by the store and pick me up a lottery ticket? :P
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Originally Posted by Master-Blade
For that mission, I believe it's pathing errors that the ambushes and patrols have issues with that causes the lag. When it happens, you can usually notice a very large group of foes bunched up in a corner somewhere, or caught up on plants.. usually on the other side of that archway.. which is why many people stay near the bridge at the beginning and pull the foes down the hill instead. That seems to prevent the ambushes from going in the "wrong direction" and causing the "lag-fest" you describe.
Personally.. I haven't had an issue with it since last year. I occasionally run into the "nova-lag" when somebody sets off a big explosion, and my guess would be that might have something to do with all the extra sound effects built into the Cimerorans, and large AoEs make them all grunt at the same time, and it hesitates. I'm not saying that nothing is wrong, but it's certainly a manageable situation if you play it differently.. especially when you do the same thing every time and know it's coming. |
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With all due respect, but it shouldn't be a "manageable situation if you play it differently". You should be able to play it the way you want without having to addapt your tactics to factor in lag. |
Originally Posted by Master-Blade
For that mission, I believe it's pathing errors that the ambushes and patrols have issues with that causes the lag. When it happens, you can usually notice a very large group of foes bunched up in a corner somewhere, or caught up on plants.. usually on the other side of that archway.. which is why many people stay near the bridge at the beginning and pull the foes down the hill instead. That seems to prevent the ambushes from going in the "wrong direction" and causing the "lag-fest" you describe.
Personally.. I haven't had an issue with it since last year. I occasionally run into the "nova-lag" when somebody sets off a big explosion, and my guess would be that might have something to do with all the extra sound effects built into the Cimerorans, and large AoEs make them all grunt at the same time, and it hesitates. I'm not saying that nothing is wrong, but it's certainly a manageable situation if you play it differently.. especially when you do the same thing every time and know it's coming. |
It's an awesome TF, but that mission has BROKEN written all over it.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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If I played it the same way as you, I'm sure I would, but I used to run the ITF several times every night for a while last year and learned to avoid that type of situation. Most of the time, I lead this TF with my Tank and pull the Generals and EBs down the hill to the bridge (or when situations are right, somebody just solos the Gens on the hill while the group takes out the EBs on the bridge). That pretty much controls where the foes are and where the ambushes go. It has nothing to do with luck. |
Originally Posted by F_M_J
So the entire gaming community except you have issues on this map? Care to stop by the store and pick me up a lottery ticket? :P
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I used to do repeated sub30 speed-runs of this TF, and with people doing around only 20min runs these days, I'm obviously not the only person who isn't having much of an issue either, or else times like that would be impossible to achieve.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
With all due respect, but it shouldn't be a "manageable situation if you play it differently". You should be able to play it the way you want without having to addapt your tactics to factor in lag.
It's an awesome TF, but that mission has BROKEN written all over it. |
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| I'm not saying that nothing is wrong |
If you approach a situation the same way every single time, you are bound to get the same result. If you keep having issues or failing, then change the way you approach the situation and maybe you'll get a different result.
There's also significant differences in lag on mission 3 on different servers. After doing it for a year or however long its been out on Freedom... I can run up the hill and trigger all the ambushers on Victory and consider it "playable". I guess that means my standards have been crushed.
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So, you assume I am "doing it wrong" heh, nice. For the record, I also pull the same way in that area, and it has no effect for me. The lag bomb still comes and it still gets nearly unplayable. |
Originally Posted by Master-Blade
If I played it the same way as you, I'm sure I would, but I used to run the ITF several times every night for a while last year and learned to avoid that type of situation. Most of the time, I lead this TF with my Tank and pull the Generals and EBs down the hill to the bridge (or when situations are right, somebody just solos the Gens on the hill while the group takes out the EBs on the bridge). That pretty much controls where the foes are and where the ambushes go. It has nothing to do with luck.
I used to do repeated sub30 speed-runs of this TF, and with people doing around only 20min runs these days, I'm obviously not the only person who isn't having much of an issue either, or else times like that would be impossible to achieve. Like I said.. but until it gets fixed, your only other option is to change the way you play the mission. Same can be said for the "broken" STF as well. If you approach a situation the same way every single time, you are bound to get the same result. If you keep having issues or failing, then change the way you approach the situation and maybe you'll get a different result. |
Maybe you play on a low population server, I on the other hand play on the highest pop server and it is the norm to have massive lag in that mission.
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I play exclusively on Freedom. Population is no excuse. |
Originally Posted by F_M_J
So, you assume I am "doing it wrong" heh, nice. For the record, I also pull the same way in that area, and it has no effect for me. The lag bomb still comes and it still gets nearly unplayable.
Maybe you play on a low population server, I on the other hand play on the highest pop server and it is the norm to have massive lag in that mission. |
I'm not saying nor assuming you are doing anything "wrong", but obviously your results differ than mine, so there is something "different" that you are doing every time. That's all.
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Me, and the vast majority of the player base. |
Originally Posted by Master-Blade
I play exclusively on Freedom. Population is no excuse.
I'm not saying nor assuming you are doing anything "wrong", but obviously your results differ than mine, so there is something "different" that you are doing every time. That's all. |
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Sorry to hear that. You're certainly welcome to join any of my teams and compare notes. In fact, we're even doing a couple MoITF (practice) this coming week. Should be cake, but we want to make sure everybody is on the same page before it's released. lol
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Originally Posted by F_M_J
Me, and the vast majority of the player base.
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Wow. You see, some people don't understand the meaning of this thread. It's noa bout complaining about the 3rd mission, it's about pointing out that it's been this way for so long. Keeping it this way, especially on one of the best TF/SFs in the game, doesn't exactly speak well for this game's development team. This merely meant to help the developers in their quest for ultimate game playability.
@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
you *******!!!!
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Six of one, half dozen of the other? They are both on the same side of the fence imo.|
Originally Posted by Black_Marrow
Wow. You see, some people don't understand the meaning of this thread. It's noa bout complaining about the 3rd mission, it's about pointing out that it's been this way for so long. Keeping it this way, especially on one of the best TF/SFs in the game, doesn't exactly speak well for this game's development team. This merely meant to help the developers in their quest for ultimate game playability.
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Mateo - I would love to join you on one of your ITF's, however all my 50's are on Virtue.
best i have is a mid to high 30's SoA on Freedom. :|
I find it amusing that no one has mentioned how different rigs handle the lag differently.
I've been on ITFs where while one person is complaining of a true slideshow of lag, I'm experiencing barely any at all.
How do we explain that?
Different geographic locations causing differing levels of network traffic issues over different backbones?
Lower end CPUs having more trouble handling said network traffic?
Lower end graphic cards choking trying to render spawns that are hidden and shouldn't be rendered anyway?
We know part of the problem is server side, and while I have run into lag every time I've run that third mission (except for that time I soloed it,) it's almost never as bad as my teammates get.
I don't have the answers for this. But it does tell me that the causes are deeper than just "the mission is badly coded and needs to be fixed."
Be well, people of CoH.
"Fixing" the mission by removing some of the spawns would at least be a good first step. Something I've noticed is that the lag gets worse when the ambushes spawn after you've crossed the bridge and taken out the second General. So here's an idea I had: Make it so the ambushes aren't newly-spawned, but come from another part of the map, where they were already spawned.
They already have tech similar to this in the Croatoa mission involving the 30 Fir Bolg. Those groups that try to run into the altar aren't newly spawned, they're all groups that have already spawned in the mission. A timer(or something) goes through and tells the groups one-by-one that now is the time to make a run for the altar. You can see this for yourself if you venture out away from the altar; you can catch a group milling around for a moment before suddenly turning and taking off for the woods.
So could they make it so the various patrols that roam the Cimeroran hills in that mission function in a similar manner, that when you trigger the ambushes, it causes them to start running in your direction?
I have to agree with Bill Z Bubba on the impact of geographical location being a factor. From reports I have heard from EU players that also play on the US servers lag is significantly less your side of the pond and people generally explain that due to the low quality connection from the EU servers.
I play the ITF semi regularly and the major place I suffer serious lag (e.g. consistently having 5-10 seconds between activating powers and them going off) and Map Server problems is on 'Lag Hill' from the 3rd mission. However, I also tend to suffer some minor lag or jerkyness in the entire map of the 4th mission (which is also reoccurs in the mission from Daedalus).
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Ever since I updated to 4gig ram, and an 8800GTS I have no lag in the ITF whatsoever, whats your computer setup and internet connection, is what I usually ask, it plays a big difference in the lag or no lag issue.
Does your ISP limit your signal at times of the day, or does your ISP (cable being the biggest culprit) share your connection with everyone in your area, block, street, etc. High times of connectivity means high times of lag.
Tech/KK
Please don't go there. The lag in the 3rd mission past the bridge, and to a lesser extent in the 4th after you take out Romi......is NOT due to weak rigs. Atleast 90% of the people I've run the ITF with get the lag, and I've ran several hundred of ITFs. The people that don't have super puters are usually the ones that completely freeze up and become usless or just DC, but everyone gets it. The problem is with the mission not peoples computers.
Also, I have a 4 gig ram and use the 8800GTS too and I get the lag. So I'm not sure how your not getting it. It's obviously not because of the size of your ram or graphics driver though.
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Originally Posted by JDub
The problem is with the mission not peoples computers.
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Even though I don't normally have any issues with the mission, doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the issue. When it happens, it happens to everybody on the team at the same time, regardless of what their system specs are. It appears to be an issue either with the server sending the information, or the server computing something at that particular time. (This doesn't mean people can't lag for other reasons, but I'm referring to this one specific lag scenario.)
When it happens, you can almost always find stuck ambushes or patrols behind the archway or on a bush somewhere. Killing them usually fixes the issue, but it's not an exact science. It's easier just to avoid it altogether by fighting the ambushes from the bridge or clearing.. and even run up to manually taunt and pull the ambushes at times. For people who use a similar tactic and still have the problem.. I honestly don't know what to tell you, and I'm sorry for that.
While the ambushes seem to be the problem, I don't know if it really is. All I can do is present my own experiences to you, and that's what I feel the problem is. I feel that moving the ambush spawn locations would benefit the stability of that mission.
On a side note, regarding the post-Rom lag.. there are actually other ambushes during and after Rom that most people ignore. Most times, they are not a big deal, but sometimes they get stuck as well.. and you end up in a similar situation as Mission 3.
To ensure I prevent this, I make sure I kill everything from what I call the "Imperious ambush" at the beginning of the mission, the "door ambush" on the right side of Rom's platform during the fight, and take out everything from the "hill ambush" on top of the tall hill in front of his platform after the fight. THEN I head to the rooftops to finish off any possible required Cimerorans. (This isn't always ideal in speed-runs, but sometimes at least one person can stay behind to keep those ambushes busy in those cases, and there wont be any ambushes trying to follow you up buildings they can't climb, or plants they don't know how to move around. lol)
I do an ITF, a 3rd respec, and a Lady Grey SF just about everynight on my main. I was doing an ITF tonight and it just dawned on me....I am amazed that I spend 40 minutes of my life playing this horrible laggy crapfest every night. Seriously, we all figured it would get fixed when it was first released, but nope. The ITF is one of the greatest TF/SF in this game, and yet it is a miserable experience because of the lag. I mean seriously, killing a computer with 12 billion HP just as massive lag makes the game play like a picture book? That;s not fun...it's borderline torture.
All hyperbole aside, can we PLEASE get this fixed? I've heard the 3rd mission is so bad becuase of so many capes on one map. If this is the case, then please remove the capes from all enemies but the bosses. Just fix it. The fact that it has gone on this long is actually embarassing.