Membrane Exposure and Shield Defense

Grant Cover with ME also grants extra defense?!

No, the intent of Hamis is to allow for more efficient slotting by allowing one slot to provide the same benefit as 2 SOs (or in a few rare cases 3). Since Active Defense doesn't allow for Defense enhancements to be slotted normally using HOs is enhancing an aspect of the power that is intended to be un-enhanceable though the use of SOs.

I know at one point there was a bug with HOs (I'm not sure if it got fixed or not) where HOs that provided a debuff could be slotted into a buff power (and visa versa) and still give their effect (the requirement was that the other aspect of the HO had to work in the power). For example a defense Debuff HO could be slotted into a Defense Buff power in which case it would enhance the defense buff by 33.33% rather than the 20% normally provided by defense buff SOs. This was clearly stated by the devs to be an exploit and while I can't say how they feel about the Membranes in AD it does seem to be unintended behavior.

Interesting, I did a quick forum search and couldn't find anything. Does anyone else have a link to this?

Yes, running Grant Cover gives YOU 13.84% defense debuff resistance AND 13.84% resistance to slows and -rech. Slotting Grant cover with defense enhances the defense debuff resistance provided and (IIRC can't remember for sure would have to test it to see) slotting Grant Cover with recharge or movement (as in the case of a microfilament) boosts the slow resistance.

Wait there's more. Grant Cover also provides those same benefits to any team members in the radius. Clearly the most overpowered power in the game especially considering the cheap end costs. How did the devs balance it? By making the radius so small that almost no one is in the radius EVER and by coupling it with a taunt Aura in the secondary so that AoE splash is sure to hit any targets near you. So instead being one of the best powers in the game it's one of the suckiest powers in the game instead.

The numbers are really close but you are actually better off soft capping your defense so that defense debuffing attacks don't hit you in the first place rather than having lower defense and lots of extra defense debuff resistance.

What about the teammates that are saved by the buff you say? Greedy Scrapper you say?

1) Since you have a taunt Aura being 25' away from squishies is 100% mitigation (especially from AoE) for them. Being 16'-24' away from squishies means that you are dropping extra AoE splash on them with out buffing them at all. Being 15' or less away from them you increase their chances of being hit by splash damage by 45% per AoE using MoB while giving them only 13.84% additional defense.

2) Low personal mitigation means that when the chips are down and the team needs the group buff the most you'll be down and not providing it.

3) Any other melee teamate that needs your CG for them to survive needs to re-examine their build and playstyle because when you aren't there (which will be most of the time) they won't survive.

Which is why I take it at lvl 49 and 1 slot it and only turn it on when for extra debuff resistance and all scrapper TF's

Holy inflation batman I bought my for 30 million a pop

Thinking about it more, I believe I remember it was with some state of the game or anniversary announcement he made around i13. Every time I try to find those things I get a forum not found thing, so disregard my comment I suppose as I can't support it

O snap!

Yeah the forum change broke all the links so unless you have the thread name finding old threads is almost impossible.

I'm not sure, Cytoskeletons definitely would whereas Enzymes are dependent on the buff/debuff bug and I honestly don't know if that got fixed or not.

Well, I already have 5 LotG +rech without 1 in GC. Is there a specific reason I should take 1 from another power to put in GC, or did you just mean it would be good if I didnt have 5 yet?

I only have the original slot in GC. I originally had it slotted for end redux. But after reading this thread, I think I'd get better miles out of that slot with an Enzyme (if they work) or a Cyto.

Valid point, unless said squishy is using IO sets/self-buffs to have a (fairly reasonable) 22%-ish defense. If said squishy is a blapper, they can melee with 33.84% defense, rather than just their normal 22%.

Alternately, combine with Maneuvers (helpful for soft-capping) to give out nearly a 20% defense buff to those around you.

If you look at the power in a vacuum, maybe. If you look at it in the set as a whole, different story. People are soft-capping their Shields, and figuring out fairly cheap soft-cap builds that don't sacrifice much. So when the team needs the buff the most, you likely won't be down.

Duos, super-teams excluded, I presume?

And personally, my non-duo characters are built to be self-sufficient, but they never pass up a helpful buff. If someone's running Grant Cover on their shielder, you can bet your butt my resist-based meleer or /regen will get close to them when they can. Not because they can't survive without the buff, but because it would be stupid not to take advantage of it.

Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?

It's still a problem in the 16'-24' foot range and all the shielder has to do to cause a problem, intentionally or not, is move.

My blapper runs ~7% defense to all and is built for recharge, recovery, and knockback. My best mititgation by far is not staying in one place for longer than it takes to animate an attack. Consequently I'm rarely near any shield users and when I am it's the 16'-24' range rather than the <15' range. As far as my blapper is concerned the shielder on the team could just as easily be replaced by just about anything else and it would be a greater benefit.

My kin/ice defender has the same issues. My best place to be is near melee which means I'm usually in that 16'-24' radius with the shielder. Melee defense is tough to come up with in set bonuses for most defenders since the set IOs that they can slot tend to provide ranged and AoE defense and not a lot of melee defense.

I tried that on my BS/Shields "Paladin" secondary build and regret having done so. The secondary build has GC slotted up and uses manuvers instead of combat jumping. I have slightly lower defenses (43%) and more end issues than my primary build for very very little extra team benefit. It was also more expensive than my primary build and I like it less and have used it only rarely since having created it.

Even when taken as a whole. Of all the powers in /shields the one that both myself and the team get the least utility out of is Grant Cover. Of all the powers in the secondary to give up this is the one that hurts the least. I provide much more mitigation to my team by operating a little way out from it, turning mezzers with AoE controls around so that squishies aren't affected and prioritizing the dangerous targets first.

If all I did was have a bad case of scrapper lock, fight in the tanks butt all the time, and only focus on the bosses in the spawn, yeah it might be a really good power but having a blapper as my main taught me better and more effective ways to assist the team than stand there and run a short radius PBAoE defensive toggle.

Mixed teams, no. Mixed duos, no. Shield duos, no. Super teams where there are multiple shielders running Grant Cover and you are more likely to actually have a buff since you are all in melee range, sure.

My wife and I tried a MA/Shields duo using SOs only. It was a pretty miserable failure. If you are within 8 feet of each other you soft cap each other. If you are in 15 feet it's still not too bad. If you move out of that 15 foot radius you both will drop pretty darn fast.

It makes mobs that prefer to stay at range, especially defense debuffing ones, the bane of that type duo and there are lots of mobs that have ranged defense debuffs in the game. That 15 foot umbilical proved to be just too short and we actually earned more debt on that pair than on our dual AR/EM blasters. So much so that my wife refuses to play that duo or roll another sheilder ever again and she is very much a scrapper/brute/tank player.

There is a big difference between taking advantage of a buff and needing that buff at all times to survive. If you need it at all times you need to re-examine your build/playstyle which was my point to begin with.

While I've no desire to debate the value of Grant Cover (you guys are doing fine), I'd like to point out that this feature of Shield Defense is intentional. It's a set that trades some defensive potential for increased offense; but the defensive weakness can be overcome by teaming with other meleers, provided everyone moves and fights cohesively.

From the Wikipedia article on Phalanx Formations:

"The phalanx is thus an example of a military formation in which the individualistic elements of battle were suppressed for the good of the whole. The hoplites had to trust their neighbours to protect them, and be willing to protect their neighbour; a phalanx was thus only as strong as its weakest elements. The effectiveness of the phalanx therefore depended upon how well the hoplites could maintain this formation while in combat..."

Likewise, the effectiveness of Shield Defense in the context of "shield wall" duos, trios or superteams, depends on how cohesive the players are in their movements and attacks. There's no excuse for moving 15' away from your neighbor on such team; you help him kill his target and then both of you move to engage whatever else there is.

Shield walls require a lot of discipline and coordination; but if you can emulate one, Shield Defense teams offer softcapped defenses at a very early level and strong offense too.

IMO, it's a fantastic job of thematic design on the part of the devs, and both Phalanx Fighting and Grant Cover are big parts of what make it great. A lone shielder has pretty weak defense (on an SO build); but a phalanx is unassailable.

I'm inclined to agree with this, with a but. The but is that while GC is probably ythe most skippable power in the set, it still offers a hefty amount of DDR which is still very nice. I think it's best to skip it if you don't have room in your build, but take it if you have the room or a low mitigation primary.